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Canon XL and GL Series DV Camcorders
Canon XL2 / XL1S / XL1 and GL2 / XM2 / GL1 / XM1.

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Old July 14th, 2004, 12:51 AM   #16
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Rik, it would make perfect sense for you to get the XL2 since you have all those extra lenses, and since your XL1 is on its last leg. How many times did you have it repaired in the last year?

I wonder if the XL2 supports only Firewire Basic like the XL1 and XL1s?
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Old July 14th, 2004, 01:02 AM   #17
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Rob -- yes -- FireWire 400 (plain vanilla IEEE1394) on the XL2.

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Old July 14th, 2004, 01:45 AM   #18
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I have relatively recently acquired a PD170 and a Mac G5, as well as a PDX10 and other supporting gear, and, of course, a tidy bit of debt to be overcome, which I'm perfectly happy to do with my new tools.
So, given that, I'll not be getting a new, "serious" camera again until...next year? And when I do get another camera...gosh, I don't know. I think I'll keep walking, on towards bigger chips, more resolution, more standard lens choices, and go for a DVC200. The XL2 is cool, variable frame rates, "native" 16:9, and what not, but I think I want a cam that will help me into a broader range of job opportunities, as well as allow me to grow exponentially as a cameraman/filmmaker. I'm turning out to be more of docummentary style filmmaker, and couldn't take a step backward in the way of light sensitivity, whether or not I'm in a position to control the lighting.
So that's me, at least for now. I am admiring this new, unknown camera, but somewhat from a distance.
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Old July 14th, 2004, 02:00 AM   #19
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I most certainly will get the XL2 once it lands on our Belgian shores! I'm still using my now 6 years old original XL1 (one of the first in Belgium), with Anton Bauer light and batteries and Sennheiser wireless mike to shoot for a weekly fashion show. It has never let me down, and I've taken it everywhere with me: the Egyptian desert, Miami Beach, all major cities in Europe, ... in all types of planes.

Better low light performance is critical to me, as is the compatibility with my AB add-ons. They both seem to be OK. I will most likely get the XL2 body, and use it with my old lens, end decide later which lens I will choose: the manual one or the new 20x automatic one. I really like the stabilizer, would hate to loose it, but am used to true manual lenses, from my broadcast background.
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Old July 14th, 2004, 03:30 AM   #20
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Yes - if not too expensive and performing well

I've been holding back my money for an XL1s and will probably buy the XL2. As the DVX is, like the Sonys, considered "Pro-Gear" here in Germany (unlike the XL1s), the XL2 could be my way to affordable 25p.

Of course, I'll have to wait and see for the actual street price when it hits the road here in Germany. And I'd like to see some of the reviews first. I only once bought into a hype,
a Radeon 8500 graphics card, and while it's a fine graphics adapter to the very day, the terrible drivers issued bei ATI kept me from using it's full capabilities until it was out of fashion again.

Taught me to better check out how it performs first!
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Old July 14th, 2004, 04:05 AM   #21
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Aaron: I have one question for you:

" how many NLE's support editing in HDV " ?

The answer to that question scares me at night. Heh. One HDV
(yes, it *is* HDV) camera has been out quite a while already and
you can still edit it in a couple of applications.

Now you might want to talk about AspectHD (if i remember
it correctly) for Premiere so it supports HDV. I'll rephrase the Q:

" how many NLE's NATIVELY support editing in HDV " ?

That scares me even more.... must be a difficult thing to
implement huh (to anyone who is curious, yes it is!).

I really really dislike it being MPEG2. That is just wrong to me.
MJPEG would've been far better as a format, but perhaps not
at 25 mbps. Keep in mind that this whole HDV is 5-gop MPEG2
to boot. I understand why they did it (try to decrease the effect
of compression) and why they probably went with MPEG2 in the
first place (try to stay as compatible as possible within the DV
standard so less changes are needed throughout the process).

It just feels plain wrong. I've seen some footage at IBC last
year and it looked very bad in my opinion. BUT, that was
ofcourse not under any controlled conditions, so I don't really
want to comment on it. I'm hoping to be able to really test the
format hands on in my own setting compared to another camera.

DV is more like MJPEG and I guess the format just wasn't
compressing well enough for an HD picture.

I feel that the only way to truly do HD well is to go to another
format all together (also for 1080 in the near future), possibly
recording straight to harddisk. Then again, that would have
costed a lot of more money for them and the industry would've
needed to come up with a true prosumer HD codec which it is
struggeling to do (Cineform seems to do a great job though!).

Ofcourse, these are my personal "feelings" on the whole HDV subject.

Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com
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Old July 14th, 2004, 08:35 AM   #22
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Will I buy an XL2?

Dunno yet. As it stands, I don't have any camcorder at all. I'm getting ready to shoot an educational/documentary film (as soon as I finish all my preproduction work, which is taking a lot longer than I'd planned on), and I'm not going to buy anything at all until I'm ready to shoot - until then, it's just junk collecting dust. But I plan to use the camera for a long time after that on a lot of different things, including more eductational and documentary style projects and entertainment/feature style shoots. So to me, versatility is probably the most important thing in a camera, and the XL series modular design makes it pretty much the way to go.

I'd been planning to get an XL1s (back when I still thought I'd be ready to shoot this month). Now I'm starting to wonder if I want to get an XL2 or just look for a good deal on a used XL1s from an upgrader looking to get rid of one. I'm torn. I really would rather have the XL2, but since I'm just getting started it may be a lot smarter to go with a cheaper camera. With the XL series, it's easier to do because I can always upgrade just the camera body later and keep all the accessories I accumulate.

On the other hand, some of the features on the XL2 are really nice for some of the projects I plan to do later. The increased resolution, especially, is a big selling point (although I want to see how real world footage comes out first). I'm also really excited about the native 16:9 and progressive scan features (again, I want to see how it comes out in the real world).

Waiting on an XL2 also means I pretty much can't shoot before September, but that's not really a big deal. This is an entirely self financed "it's done whenever it gets done" kind of project, and I've only spent a couple hundred bucks on preproduction stuff so far, so I'm not waiting desperately for a return on investment. Plus, I'm still putting everything else together, so it may very well be September before I'm ready to shoot anyway. I decided at the very beginning to do this right, not fast.

Real world prices will also play a factor. Nobody actually sells the XL1s at MSRP, and the same will almost certainly be true of the XL2 - although maybe not in the first few months when it's a hot item.

Right now, I'm leaning toward the XL2, but it's hard to say. All else being equal, it's certainly the camera I want to get. :)
Russell Newquist
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Old July 14th, 2004, 09:19 AM   #23
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Unless something real HD comes out in the next
month or two I will be buying an XL2. Why?

I have had an XL1 for over 5 years. It has been a wonderful camera,
but it is literally worn out. The camera now can only record
after the first five minutes of tape and before the last twenty minutes
without constant drop outs. The transport is just about toast,
but this is only after thousands of hours of head wear.

I have an EOS adapter and a couple of nice Canon 35mm lens.
For wildlife videography I was happy to learn that the XL2
will still work with this EOS set up. In fact, I will have even a greater
magnification with the XL2. Those reasons coupled w/ true 16x9, 30P
(my favorite frame rate), and XLR inputs w/ phantom
makes the XL2 a real winner imo. I also
appreciate the fact that I can buy the camera without a lens.

I think this approach was a good move from Canon, and that the XL2 is more of
an olive branch to their past XL1 customers who simply want an great SD
upgrade now. Canon has not forgotten them nor left them out to dry.
Not a revolutionary upgrade, but a solid evolutionary move.

The only additional things I would have
really liked to have included would have been an SDI output
(uncompressed) and the hi res. viewfinder. ;)

Doesn't Canon plan on making some kind of HD camcorder
in the next year anyway? That *should be* the REVOLUTIONARY camera imo.
I really hope that camera is NOT HDV, but in fact a much better
codec such as H.264 or DVCPro 100. 25mbps just IS NOT ENOUGH bandwidth
for HD using MPEG-2.

If it has to be HDV because Canon joined that "club",
I surely hope they'll have an SMPTE 292 jack for uncompressed 292M output to
hard drive or VTR from the camera's processor.

HDV is fine for talking heads, but it won't work
for nature videography as blowing grass, leaves and rippling water will
result in a hideous macro block mosaic. A talking head seems to barely hang
together in HDV.

If today's XL2 was HDV only, I doubt I would be interested.
Jacques Mersereau
University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager
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Old July 14th, 2004, 10:31 AM   #24
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I'll definitely be buying as soon as I can. I recently aquired a DVX100a in addition to my XL1s and I was shocked at the difference in image quality. If the XL2 brings the XL series up to or surpasses that quality I''l be really happy to have two cameras that between them (and the EOS lenses) cover all the filming bases I'm ever likely to encounter. As tools they dovetail nicely.
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Old July 14th, 2004, 10:37 AM   #25
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if you want to make nonfiction documentaries then you can stay with xl1/xl1s, there's really no point in upgrading to xl2. the biggest feature with xl2 is the 24p.

if you want to make fiction movies with the intent of transferring to film or not then xl2 is the only way to go. 24p mode is simply too much to pass up for any moviemaker that wants the 'film-look' and don't want to 'fake it' in post.

i just got my xl1s in january and want to trade it in for xl2 soon as it comes out.
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Old July 14th, 2004, 10:52 AM   #26
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XL-2 looks like a steal

I have owned a Pany DVX-100 and a Sony PD-150 ( and really beat up one I admit) and this looks like one of the best and most complete cameras to come out for us Pro-DV shooters in some time! I am still waiting for some big reviews but I am already getting my cash ready for this camera. I own 4 Canon cameras ( tow MX-2's, one XL-1 , and a MV-6i for capture) and I really love their look so Canon is my fav vs Pany or Sony so I can't wait . Bring it ON!!!!!!!!
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Old July 14th, 2004, 01:36 PM   #27
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I have an XL1s that has been great but I really should have a backup camera. I will consider a XL2 after I get to play with one for a bit, but I may look for another XL1s, then wait a year or so and see how the 2's are holding up.

I do like the fact that the lens system carries over; I love using my Fujinon Optex 14x as well as the EOS adapter.
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Old July 14th, 2004, 02:55 PM   #28
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This is a poll.... right? Then my answer is "Yes"!
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Old July 14th, 2004, 03:21 PM   #29
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Hi, I got in late last night from Alabama and woke up to Christmas Morning! The XL2. What a beautiful thing it is. I spent a lot of time today reading all the posts on it. This is my first impression. Canon, THANK YOU. I had the XL-1 and now the XL-1s. I loved the video I got from both of them. I travel all over and this is my camcorder of choice. Excellant picture quaility, soft colors, great feel and zoom control, and that IS can't be beat (try videoing a tree sloth up in a tree, from a boat on the Amazon river with anything else). But, Canon has also allowed me to keep the toys I love. Namely, my 3X, my 14X, my 1.6 extender, my battaries, car chargers, macro filters, case, and all my other goodies. I can buy the lens now and wait till I need the body, or buy the body and wait for the lens. Canon has done us all a great service buy making it all compatable. But, in answer to the question about buying one. Well, yes, on January 17th, 2006 (or sooner if needed). Bob Safay
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Old July 14th, 2004, 03:39 PM   #30
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On paper, the specs are nice and impressive. Except for one: 5.5lux low-light rating just plain sucks. Sorry, but I was expecting the XL2 to surpass the DVX100A, not just playing catch-up. The only real plus it has over the Panny, aside from the interchangeable lens of course, is the native 16x9 CCDs.

Overall I am somewhat disappointed. But before I commit to this point of view, I'll wait to see the picture quality and read up on the unbiased reviews

5.5lux... sheesh!!!
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