New XL H1S and H1A -- questions and answers.

Bill Pryor · April 11th, 2008, 01:12 PM

Lonnie, you have repeatable focus and distance readouts, but they're in the viewfinder, not on the lens. Same thing basically.

Alkim Un · April 11th, 2008, 03:20 PM

hi all,

I think Reason for Canon made small incerements over H1 is they are working on new camera has AVHC codec for tapeless recording option. now they are gaining time with this upgrade.

Alkim

Peter Moretti · April 12th, 2008, 05:31 AM

The cost of tapeless archiving point mentioned a few post prior makes no sense to me. Harddrives are so cheap now that they are actually less expensive to store on than high quality mini DV tapes. And yes, harddrives fail, but tapes break as well. In truth, I've had tapes break, but can't recall *knock on wood* ever having a harddrive fail.

As for the Red costing $40K to $80K, that's also misleading to me. I think a lot of Red users don't pimp out their Red and get great results. They even post on the Red forum, if this statement is doubted.

Lauri Kettunen · April 12th, 2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Moretti

As for the Red costing $40K to $80K, that's also misleading to me. I think a lot of Red users don't pimp out their Red and get great results. They even post on the Red forum, if this statement is doubted.

Well, I had XL1 to XL H1 cameras and now a RED, so feel able to comment this. First of all, I would say the real cost of RED comparable to XL H1 package is about $23.000 -$25.000 including the Birger EF-adapter (which starts to ship in the near future) BUT without any lens. However, if one has Canon EF-lenses, the Birger EF-adapter should be a fine solution.

In my case starting to shoot with RED was easier than with the XL H1. Still, other people may have found it the other way around. When I got the XL H1, I spent a lot of time --several days-- fine tuning the CPs to get neutral colors. The usei interface of RED is rather intelligent and easy to learn. To get great images ... well ... with any camera it takes time to learn to push the best out of the equipment.

Nick Hiltgen · April 12th, 2008, 12:14 PM

I think Lauri has a great point. While by all means there is somethig to fine tuning a custom preset to get a desired look, it's equally as great if not better to be able to simply record in raw and get whatever look you want.

Again, if you only plan on buying a camera to shoot movies then you should buy a Red. On the other hand if you only plan on shooting movies you probably should just rent a camera because you can get a pimped out package for a month or so for less then the cost of buying the red body alone. I don't think red is practical for running and gunning (maybe scarlet will be, whatever it ends up being) but for ENG I've had great results with the canon and obviously it can shoot a movie.

So while I think it's a fair comparison as far as strictly cine-style shooting goes When I buy a camera I want something that I can use for as many different things as possible, with the xl-series I've had that. If I shoot another movie with a budget over 50k I'll start looking at other options but until then the canon has been a great tool and a great investment for me. Hopefully one day I'll only shoot movies and never do another Doc, or event shoot or anything and then I'll buy a red (or whatever the equivalent is) but if I'm going to still try and cover all my bases the canon is the better choice.

But yeah the updates are still pretty week.

note: if someone wants to trade me a red with lenses and storage for THE xl-h1 that shot "the signal" I will retract all of my above comments and say how I love shooting ENG with the red ;)

Lauri Kettunen · April 12th, 2008, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Hiltgen

But yeah the updates are still pretty week.

If I may speculate, my guess is that Canon introduced this update to keep the XL-series product alive bit longer. If I remeber well it was one of Chris' wisdom that Canon never introduces new products in NAB. If so, this is an exception and may reveal they have made a strategic change. Such as extending the life of XL-series to win some time in developing a new approach, which I suspect will be with CMOS-sensor and EF-lenses. Who knows, maybe it's not that far way that the next generation of cameras will a fusion between a DSLR and a video camera. In fact, Nikon is not that far from it. Furthermore, the Canon Ixus series pocket cameras have already such a video feature. Just put a SD video taken with these new Ixus camera aside with the old XL1/XL1s footages and get surprised.

Chris Hurd · April 12th, 2008, 01:06 PM

Ixus in Europe = Elph in the Americas. Agree with the point about VGA movie mode quality of those pocket cameras. Plus the new ones do time-lapse, which is a lot of fun.

Lou Bruno · April 12th, 2008, 01:53 PM

The SONY EX-3 will be introduced by SONY soon. It looks like the Canon series as far as being shoulder mounted. Wait till NAB...you heard it here fiirst.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Smet

Don't knock the camera yet. For interlaced shooting the Canon cameras are pretty much equal in terms of detail.

The EX1 is also a bear to hold for long periods of time. It's still hard to beat a shoulder mounted camera for long term handheld shooting.

Also as nice as CMOS is the Canon cameras do not have any of the CMOS issues such as wobble and warped and stretched. If you shoot in an environment with a lot of rapidly changing lights such as stage productions or concerts then a CCD will give you much better results. I love the look of CMOS but you really do have to be carefull of what type of stuff you shoot.

The EX1 may have a detail edge for progressive shooting but the 24F mode on the Canon is nothing to laugh at. Once you get past all the pointless tech talk and specs and just work with it it can be a very high quality fluid format.

Chris Hurd · April 12th, 2008, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lou Bruno

The SONY EX-3 will be introduced by SONY soon... Wait till NAB...you heard it here fiirst.

Sony EX3 discussion already underway at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=119185

Lou Bruno · April 12th, 2008, 02:18 PM

OOPS.....never go there that much. I know some of the particulars which I will keep to myself till the introduction.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hurd

Sony EX3 discussion already underway at http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=119185

Chris Hurd · April 12th, 2008, 02:40 PM

Just uploaded thirty-plus photos of the H1S / H1A and menu displays... somewhat rough quality as they're only snapshots taken without any real planning. I had an opportunity to shoot these and wanted to post 'em up right away, since the next several days are gonna be really busy here in Las Vegas...

http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/browseimages.php?c=55

Jacques Mersereau · April 12th, 2008, 03:03 PM

In my view this is an incremental upgrade, and that's fine, but . . .

My expectations are that flaws are supposed to be addressed in an incremental upgrade and the biggest flaw in ALL XL series has been the stock viewfinder.
Yes, I know, there is an expensive and power sucking B&W option, but Sony
has come out with a stock LCD that works. This major problem should have been addressed and a suitable answer provided for Canon fans by now.

Chris Hurd · April 12th, 2008, 03:05 PM

Off topic: hey Jacques, I'm not sure I have a current email address from you. Please contact me, chris at dvinfo dot net. Hope to see you Monday morning at NAB.

Evan C. King · April 12th, 2008, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Quinones

Not trying to change the subjet, but what would you guys think if Canon would do something like Sony has done with the HVR-Z7U, and pair it with a memory card recorder like the HVR-MRC1. I would be lining up for one in a second.

At the very lease you can buy the mrc1 for your canon in a few months.

Floris van Eck · April 12th, 2008, 03:58 PM

I hope that we (current XL-H1 owners) are also entitled to get this firmware update. I am sure many of the feature of this camera can also be added to the current XL-H1 through a firmware upate. I would appreciate that.

People who will buy the new model will still get a better and improved lens, while loyal customers will get some benefits as well.

So Canon, please let us join the fun.

April 11th, 2008, 03:20 PM	#47
Alkim Un Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Ankara, Turkey Posts: 136	hi all, I think Reason for Canon made small incerements over H1 is they are working on new camera has AVHC codec for tapeless recording option. now they are gaining time with this upgrade. Alkim __________________ www.alkimmedya.com

April 12th, 2008, 12:14 PM	#50
Nick Hiltgen Trustee Join Date: May 2003 Location: Atlanta GA Posts: 1,427	I think Lauri has a great point. While by all means there is somethig to fine tuning a custom preset to get a desired look, it's equally as great if not better to be able to simply record in raw and get whatever look you want. Again, if you only plan on buying a camera to shoot movies then you should buy a Red. On the other hand if you only plan on shooting movies you probably should just rent a camera because you can get a pimped out package for a month or so for less then the cost of buying the red body alone. I don't think red is practical for running and gunning (maybe scarlet will be, whatever it ends up being) but for ENG I've had great results with the canon and obviously it can shoot a movie. So while I think it's a fair comparison as far as strictly cine-style shooting goes When I buy a camera I want something that I can use for as many different things as possible, with the xl-series I've had that. If I shoot another movie with a budget over 50k I'll start looking at other options but until then the canon has been a great tool and a great investment for me. Hopefully one day I'll only shoot movies and never do another Doc, or event shoot or anything and then I'll buy a red (or whatever the equivalent is) but if I'm going to still try and cover all my bases the canon is the better choice. But yeah the updates are still pretty week. note: if someone wants to trade me a red with lenses and storage for THE xl-h1 that shot "the signal" I will retract all of my above comments and say how I love shooting ENG with the red ;) __________________ I have a dream that one day canon will release a 35mm ef to xl adapter and I'll have iris control and a 35mm dof of all my ef lenses, and it will be awesome...

April 12th, 2008, 01:06 PM	#52
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Ixus in Europe = Elph in the Americas. Agree with the point about VGA movie mode quality of those pocket cameras. Plus the new ones do time-lapse, which is a lot of fun. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 12th, 2008, 02:40 PM	#56
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Just uploaded thirty-plus photos of the H1S / H1A and menu displays... somewhat rough quality as they're only snapshots taken without any real planning. I had an opportunity to shoot these and wanted to post 'em up right away, since the next several days are gonna be really busy here in Las Vegas... http://www.dvinfo.net/gallery/browseimages.php?c=55 __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 12th, 2008, 03:03 PM	#57
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	In my view this is an incremental upgrade, and that's fine, but . . . My expectations are that flaws are supposed to be addressed in an incremental upgrade and the biggest flaw in ALL XL series has been the stock viewfinder. Yes, I know, there is an expensive and power sucking B&W option, but Sony has come out with a stock LCD that works. This major problem should have been addressed and a suitable answer provided for Canon fans by now. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

April 11th, 2008, 01:12 PM	#46
Bill Pryor Contributor Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Kansas City, MO Posts: 4,449	Lonnie, you have repeatable focus and distance readouts, but they're in the viewfinder, not on the lens. Same thing basically.

April 12th, 2008, 05:31 AM	#48
Peter Moretti Trustee Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Sherman Oaks, CA Posts: 1,259	The cost of tapeless archiving point mentioned a few post prior makes no sense to me. Harddrives are so cheap now that they are actually less expensive to store on than high quality mini DV tapes. And yes, harddrives fail, but tapes break as well. In truth, I've had tapes break, but can't recall knock on wood ever having a harddrive fail. As for the Red costing $40K to $80K, that's also misleading to me. I think a lot of Red users don't pimp out their Red and get great results. They even post on the Red forum, if this statement is doubted.

April 12th, 2008, 03:05 PM	#58
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Off topic: hey Jacques, I'm not sure I have a current email address from you. Please contact me, chris at dvinfo dot net. Hope to see you Monday morning at NAB. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

April 12th, 2008, 03:58 PM	#60
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I hope that we (current XL-H1 owners) are also entitled to get this firmware update. I am sure many of the feature of this camera can also be added to the current XL-H1 through a firmware upate. I would appreciate that. People who will buy the new model will still get a better and improved lens, while loyal customers will get some benefits as well. So Canon, please let us join the fun.