Hot gossip from My Canon insider.
 

I have just recieved interesting news from my top secret Canon source. I wish that it would have been something like a blurry pic from a cameraphone and a hastily copied spec sheet. But no.
Instead the info is that there will be two major video announcements this year. One in July and one in September, and that these announcements will be related to HDV. The insider also expressed that Sonys HDV cams was the target. The person stated that "now they (Sony, JVC) are gonne get competetion!"

For all it's worth - but it sure looks like Canon has been active, and not sitting on their hands.

Interesting top secret intelligence report; hope no spies met with an untimely demise in pursuit of this info!

If we are talking the next TWO major announcements, I'll expand my guess to a July announcement for a "GL3" or Optura HDV camera, with the September announcement being an XL form factor. Although I'd be happier with the reverse! Only time will tell, eh?

Why not a GL3 in july and an Optura in september? The XL2 is only one year old...

Of course, none of us knows what Canon's business strategy is.

But as I mentioned earlier, I find it most unlikely that they would cede this market space ("low cost" professional) to the competition just when HD technologies are beginning to drive an big upturn in sales volume. After all, even if they don't want it TODAY, everyone reading here will want an HD camera soon; none of us wants to be TOO far behind everyone else, eh?

Once there is a crop of HD cameras to compete directly against the XL2 for new camera sales -- which appears to be starting to happen already -- the used XL2 market is going to steal away sales of new XL2's. With a glut of almost-new XL2's for sale, the few who still want an XL2 instead of an HD camera may well buy "hardly-used," rather than a new one at retail. I suspect that new XL2 sales will be at a trickle by this autumn, even if they do cut the price.

If Canon wants to sell very many cameras in that market space beyond this autumn, they must compete. And that means a new camera that previous XL owners will want to buy more than they want to buy a competitor's. Using a company's history of new product releases (in Canon's case, last to the dance but always notably well-dressed) can be useful in a fairly static market, but Darwin comes into play here; Canon doesn't want to get TOO far behind everyone else. This will be a tremendously dynamic time -- LOTS of people are going to buy their first HD cameras in the next year or two. If I've already bought my Pansonic HVX200, Canon won't be selling me an "XL3"...all the companies are perfectly aware of these market forces.

Then again, some have predicted that this is the end of the line for the XL series. Maybe Canon will go in another direction entirely. Only time will tell.

Just to add my thoughts on the last two comments, if the new canon HDV is going to compete with Sony, it will most likely start with a consumer camera rather than the prosumer. That's where most of the HDV sales will come from. Sony's push for their various consumer HDV cameras will also help sell their new HD TV's and players to the same customers. The consumer HD market will be very hot over the next couple of years.

A September announcement from Canon will most likely be a GL3 - an easy to handhold HD camera. If Canon does produce an XL3, I think they will stay with the XL form factor as it has worked well for Canon in the past.

But who really wants HDV?

How do they beat Sony with an HDV cam? Sony is already going sub2k with their new consumer hdv cams. Just another 1080i hdv isn't going to win any hearts.

It will have to be 1080/24p or 720/24p.

And the XL3 had better skip HDV altogether.

Any XL3 is fine with me if it lowers the price of the XL2 :)

Probably the same way they do it with regular DV cams. Better/more/reachable manual controls for a couple bucks less than the equivalent Sony. That's why I'm sticking to my $1799 Optura XiHDV theory. 10% off the new Sony HDV cam and somewhat better manual control (though I have to admit Sony actually put some decent controls on the new model).

Probably no rocket science stuff, just a solid product with good economics. And it'll keep Optura and Elura owners wanting to upgrade to HD from jumping to Sony.

As for stuff like 1080P or 24P, etc.. I think if we see that in a $2000 cam it'll almost certainly be Panasonic. I could imagine them engineering a GS400 replacement that at least shoots 720P/24 in that price range. Even JVC might replace the HD1 with something like that.

I suppose all the guessing will end as the year progresses. And then it'll start all over when everyone's 2nd generation HD products hit the rumor mills next year :)

Philip Williams
www.philipwilliams.com

Canon could outdo Panasonic:

1. License DVCPro (50 and HD) and HDV encoding
2. Push HDV to 50 Mbps
3. Include both 720p and 1080i HDV
4. Support 24p under all formats
5. Record DV and HDV 19/25 Mbps to tape, and DVCPro and 50-Mbps HDV-compatible streams to hard-disk or solid-state media
6. Include all the logic circuitry so that recording to nontape media means simply plugging in a cheap hard drive or a Samsung Flash-based drive
7. Include multiple frame rates for DVCPro HD 720p
8. Figure out how to encode DVCPro HD 1080p24 at 1,440 x 1,080 instead of 1,280 x 1,080
9. Three half-inch, 1,440 x 1,080 CMOS imaging chips that have excellent low-light capability
10. Usable uncompressed 4:4:4 HD-SDI output for masochists and those needing to do optimal blue- or greenscreen work
11. Of course, a removable lens
12. Replace the "bent" XL form factor with something sleeker
13. Price, with lens, well under $10,000 (preferably under $7,000)

Canon new pro prosumer HD camera specs
 

I'm guessing it will have 3 modes:

720/1-60p, 19 Mbps
1080/50-60i, 25 Mbps
1080/1-30p, 25 Mbps

It will record in HDV or Blu-Ray format.

It will use one 2/3" CMOS by Altasens.

It will have new line of interchangable lenses

It will be camera with which indies will make their blockbuster movies.

It will be under $10,000 and will accept Canon 35 mm lenses.

Competing cameras from 7,000 to 70,000 dollars will hardly sell at all.

It will become bestseller pro camera.

It will be available at NAB 2006.

Radek

i'm curious, why aren't existing XL lenses capable of HD lenses, cause of thread-size?

also, why don't broadcast HD spec have 1080p and just 1080i? bandwidth?

Well I hardly believe anything HDV at those bitrates could stop a 70K camera from selling.

Now, if they got another codec, then they could do something really really fancy.

Aaron

The existing lenses don't resolve enough lines for HD.

I wonder too why films are not transmitted 1080p24. It compresses easier, needs lower bit rate than 1080/60i. I guess when they developed 1080i, things were harder do than now.

also, why don't broadcast HD spec have 1080p and just 1080i? bandwidth?
 

My understanding is that a consensus couldn’t be reached on whether the formats should be progressive or interlaced, so 720 became 'progressive' only and 1080 became 'interlaced'. Now we also see the 1080 in progressive as well….

I think it was different. Original HDTV broadcast started in Japan, was analog and 60i interlaced footage transfered to 60i SD better. 1080p24 needs about same bit rate, if not lower than 720p60. Films and most shows are shot 24p anyway so unless it's sports, etc., 1080i60 and 720p60 not make sense. MPEG4 allow 1080p60 at 19 Mbps. It will be HDTV future.

Radek

if it's pretty feasible, are there talks from HD consortium to revise the HD broadcast standards to include 1080p? i would think that the current boxes would simply need firmware updates. what do you think? any news?

1080p is way in future. They need sell you 1080i first, when profits from 1080i go down, suddenly there will be 1080p HDTV. By going in steps, profits multiply better.

Radek

I have received an email about the new Canon HD cameras shipping in about a month.

Cheers

Great !
 

What Models did they mention ? Can you forward the message to

james@ontherhodes.com

? Sorry but I am excited to know what they are going to do

better yet Stephen, can you paste that email here on DVI for us to read? =).

So are the new Canon's HDV or HD?

I have no email or anything to send to anyone, but I can tell you that the XL2 will be discontinued 9/5/05 and the GL2 is to be discontinued on 12/31/05...so that implies that Canon will be announcing at least one new HD camcorder VERY soon...but on the other hand what happens if they prop everything above the Optura 600? that would totally suck...

If you say so... but you've gotta buy beers for all of us a week from Tuesday if you're wrong. Glad this is Area 51....

I hope I regret being so sure in my opinion/guess, but I would be shocked if they were already discontinuing the XL2 next month. No way this is going to happen so soon after it's release.

I'll wait for that beer, too.

KW

Great and mysterious are the ways of Canon. I find it pretty futile (and kind silly) to even try and guess what they're going to do anymore, as last week's events surely bore out.

Ok, it's September 7.....

I'll take a Moosehead please. What does everyone else want - Noah's buying!

I guess we'll have to wait until the Canon Expo next week (15th) to see now. Man, I sure would love for Canon to surprise all and hit one out of the park. I have a feeling it might be a solid "double" with the GL3.

If only we could get Chris to give us some early hints. I see that he's doing a seminar there next week...

Kevin

Make mine a Maudite.

As a former Texan... Shiner Bock, please.

Shiner Blonde for me, I save the Bock for worthwhile occasions.

If this rumor is true about an XL3 or XLHD.

Someone said it'll blow the others away today and it's coming.

Of course we've been guessing or hearing this for a while.

But what would blow all the other cameras away?

A combo of Sony and the HVX, 60i,60p,50i,50p,30p,30i,25p, 24p, more than one frame rate with interchangeable lens.

Just having fun here.

I find it hard to believe anyone can blow anyone away with HDV in the price range we're looking at.

It *seems* from the forums around the place that people are having various problems with the JVC, so maybe that gives Canon some leverage in that area - builda solid product that performs well and people will be happy.

Of course, what we all want is something like DVCPRO HD. Will be interesting nonetheless!

Aaron

Any occasion that calls for drinking beer is worthy of Shiner Bock. Ummmmmm....ahhhhhhhh....Shiner Bock.

If the price range is around $6,000, Canon could do plenty. I recall when a lot of otherwise knowledgeable people poo-pooed 24p, saying that it wasn't part of the HDV spec, and then JVC added it. I remember when an interchangeable lens was thought unrealistic at this price point. Maybe Canon has waited to release an HD model because it's trying to incorporate a lot of innovative (at this price) features.

Shiner Bock.... yes, thank the Lord I can still buy it here in San Mateo, and I don't mind paying for 'premium' beer.

Oh, wait.... I'm sorry, this is a thread about cameras or something isn't it... Umm okay... "Yeah, Canon is going to blow away everybody... "

I agree Lawrence,
with the internals of the camera being electronic circuitry, there is a lot that Canon can do within the $6000 mark. I think the biggest costs are the CCD chips and the lenses.

Pulled this off DVX user.

Someone posted pictures of the Canon HDV camera, looks like the XL2 but black.

http://www.dvxuser.com/V3/showthread.php?t=32979

I hope its cool to post the link.

Last I looked the pictures on are page three. Oops make that page 6.

Darn, I just bought my XL2, now it will be obsolete. (If its true)

Pretty darn sure this is a fake. See my post in this thread that started in the XL2 forum (now ALSO in AREA 51 unless and until this apparent hoax is confirmed -- which I doubt it will be):

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showpost....5&postcount=12