XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

I've been researching this for a while now, and it looks like the very best way to capture the xl-h1's sdi output is to use the nanoflash. I'm not concerned about audio, since that can be captured so many different ways. I'm talking strictly about image quality. I've tried to find comparisons that people have done but I can't. i'm sure its because it's hard to make these types of comparisons when you have to compress it so much anyway for the web. Please someone tell me if i'm waisting my money or if theres a product that i've missed! My hope is that it will be a huge difference in comparison to the mpeg-2 that comes off the tape. thanks

We got a big improvement in appearance and workflow by moving to DTE FireStore's. We have two, one is the FS-C we use with an XL-H1 and the other is an FS-4 we use with a JVC. Have upgraded the hard drive in the FS-C and get 695mins of storage on it.
The next step for us is the Nanoflash but there are two of us and we need to match footage as much as possible, so two to buy.....

We'll have to leave it for a while...

Hi Joe,
I've bough a NanoFlash to increase the image quality of my XLH1 and I'm really happy with it.
4.2.2 brings more beautifull colors and MPEG2 at 100Mb/s the movements are less blurry than in HDV. And the workflow with CF card is so much easier than tapes. My XLH1 has a new life!

NanoFlash and XLH1s (the newer model) is a wonder. As others indicate, it upgrades your images to 4:2:2 as opposed to 4:2:0. And the far greater data rates available provide you a picture so much better in many ways.

If you have the older XLH1 like we do, then the XDRflash is a better match due to the matching audio input capability (gets rid of the necessity to run double system or trying to hassle synching audio from tape). The XDR has been discontinued but can be found used and is still supported by CD. And it has the advantage of 4 CF card slots for double the run time of the Nano - but is is larger than the Nano.

So am I to undertand that the nanoflash cannot record the analog audio from the original xl-h1? It thought I saw a stereo 1/8" input on one of the units.

SDI recorders
 

Thanks everybody, I'm glad John mentioned the XDR I was wondering why there was just an image on the website and no link! Too bad it's discontinued, I do have the old H1. And Ronan seems to be really impressed, I think I might be sold. The firestore looks good but doesn't IMPROVE image quality, just improves workflow if I didn't miss anything. Thanks again!

Hi Joe,

Suggestion. Take your questions over to the NanoFlash forum right here on DVinfo. It is the best and most frequented place on the internet having to do with nanoFlash. You will get straight up answers on the unit's strengths and weaknesses. The link to it is below.

Convergent Design nanoFlash Forum at DVinfo.net

I have the older XLH1 too but no issue with audio. Iv'e got a stereo RCA cable that goes out of the camera then enters in the NanoFlash through a mini jack connector. Why should we need the XDR, John?

I have the Canon XLH1s/Nanoflash combination and it really is fantastic.

The Nano adds so much tot he XL (enhanced image quality, tapeless workflow, tape backup, etc.) and it has been a most worthwhile purchase.

If increasing image quality is a criteria, go for the Nanoflash. The Firestore solutions are only good if you are looking to move to a tapeless workflow.

Nano works with the 1/8th min-plug to original XLH1...
But the XDR has the advantages of audio via far more robust XLR connections, cabling - plugs that lock, grounded cabling and long runs if needed.
The Nano will work though with the XLH1 original.
Nano advantages - smaller form factor and weight - lower price - currently in production - HDMI I/O
XDR advantages - twice the recording capacity (nano hot-swapping promised) due to 4 slots vs 2 - XLR audio - more robust construction - if promised uncompressed ever arrives, 4 CF card slots vs 2 in the nano may become an issue?

thanks again everybody, I'm sold on the nanoflash. The XDR sounds even better but I hate to buy electronics used, besides, I looked and can't find one for sale. haha

I'd prefer the nanoflash myself, even with the RCA to mini 1/8" connector at this point. Thanks!

XL-H1 to ki mini?
 

OK i was totally sold on the nanoflash and then I read about the AJA ki mini. wow... a few years ago there was no way to capture the sdi out without spending a fortune and now too many choices. I also use FCP so which of these two should I get? I'm usually good at making my own decisions but I just dont have enough info. Prores VS Sony codec...HELP! oh yea, and the reason I'm posting in the canon forum is because my question is specific to the XL-H1 and I want the conversation to be open to other options than the nanoflash.

Maybe this post from Mike Schell, from Convergent Design, would help you to make an opinion.
http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/converge...mparisons.html

Just have another concern, (bare with me it's a huge purchase) will quicktime player play back the files imported from the nanoflash without being converted into a .MOV by something like FCP? or do you have to import the file to view them? I'm getting the impression that only about half of the file types will play.

It's extremly simple with the Nano. If you are on Mac, you can ask to the Nano to record .mov type file. Copy them by drag and drop from the CF card to your hard drive and voilà! QuickTime can read them! No conversion recquired.

that's great to know Ronan thanks!

Nano Flash rec/ control / XLH1
 

Sounds great about the Nano Flash, I have the Canon XLH1.

How does it work together; when you Record; do you have to press REC on the Nano too?
Or is it somehow controlled by the camera; like LANC?
So you just need one button to press,
both HDV backup and Nano rec...

Thanks

Carl

You can set up the Nano to record on Timecode trigger, which means it'll start and stop recording when you start and stop on your tape recording respectively.

So yes, one button to press to start and stop recording on both!

And you can power a nanoflash using your existing Canon batteries provided you have the Canon CH-910 dual battery holder and the appropriate cable, which is available via nanoflash.net

Ron
ps also think about the nanoflash mounting kit for XLH1, again available from nanoflash.net. Comes with a lovely solid tripod plate with a variety of 1/4 and 3/8 mounting points

Thank you Michael, that sounds great!

Thank you Ronald, so if I also get the Canon CH-910 I use one of the battery slots for the plate/ cable to boost the NanoFlash, I guess?

Thanks!

The CH-910 can't be used to power both the camera and a nanoFlash, unfortunately. Only one or the other.
I don't know why apart from the need to produce a "split" cable, one end terminated in the power plug for the nano, the other terminated with a battery plate for the camera. I've been intending to ask Convergent Design about this limitation
The CH-910 does not draw power from both batteries simultaneously but consecutively. It can be used with a single battery.

Ron

Thanks for great advices.

So if I have the first version XLH1: I use a HD-SDI cable, analog sound cables, and a Time code cable..right? Timecode cable like this?:
nanoFlash.net - NANOFLASH ACCESSORIES IN STOCK! LARGEST SELECTION ANYWHERE!Remote Control & Time CodeCustom lengths in 24 hours. E-mail or call us.
And thanks Ron about the double battery tips, but I don´t have it so nanoflash.net battery option is good too?
nanoFlash.net - Batteries and Chargers

Thanks again.

I recently bought a Nanoflash for my XLH1. It took me a while to get it set up with the camera, but this is the solution that worked best for me.

1) HD SDI cable
2) Time code cable (from nanoflash.net)
3) Battery & charger (from nanoflash.net)
4) 3.5mm Male to RCA Audio Lead Cable (from ebay)
5) Hama Accessory Shoe 1/4" Thread (from amazon)
6) Some washers and heavy duty velcro (from DIY shop)

The nanoflash was a no brainer for me as it has extended the life of my XLH1 (and I'll continue using the Nanoflash with the Panasonic AF100 when I get one in the future!).

The cables are self explanatory. The XLH1 is unique in that it does not carry the timecode and audio in the HD SDI cable - hence the need for these other cables.

I was not able to use the hotshoe on top of the XLH1 handle to mount the Nanoflash as I usually have a PAG light up there. So I drilled a hole in the accessory plate on the back and attached the nano with the Hama 1/4' screw (I used a couple of washers to make it fit). Finally I attached the battery to the back of the nano with some heavy duty velcro. This is my first basic set up, and I'll adapt it if I see it needs tweaking.

In terms of setting up the Nano and the XLH1 make sure you do the following:

XLH1 Menu:
1) Turn on the HDSDI out.
2) Turn on the Timecode Out.

I'm shooting 25P so the set up I have on the Nano as follows:
Trigger: Timecode
Source: SDI
Record PSF Prog: Yes
Audio In: Analog
(still working out all these details though...)

Some photos of the set up below.
Good luck!

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Hi Simon

I have a first generation Canon XLH1 (PAL Version) and I'm contemplating whether to buy a Nano Flash and upgrade the camera for an upcoming wildlife adventure documentary... I need to record 4:2:2 at 50mb or higher for HD broadcast.

Normally we rent in HDCAM equipment for projects destined for HD broadcast, but this is the first HD documentary I am bankrolling myself and I definitely do not have the budget to rent or buy the higher end equipment I would normally use on this type of project. Obviously my end goal is to distribute internationally, which makes things tricky as I still want to produce the quality necessary to fall within the requirements set out by high-end broadcasters, e.g. Discovery and BBC. I know that if the specs of my project passes their minimum requirements I should be in the clear for any potential broadcast market.

We are going to film in a remote wilderness area in Mozambique for 6 months and its imperative that I make the right choices, hence this post... I'm trying to get as much advice as possible from individuals who have been using the various options I am looking at in order to make the right decision.

I was toying with the idea to purchase a new Canon XF305 for this shoot, but the other option that I have is to look at the NanoFlash and give my XLH1 a new lease on life.

What is your experience with the NanoFlash and XLH1?

Does the setup work with regards to the timecode and sound that needs extra cabling due to the limitations of the XLH1 SDI output?

I've read that a user on this forum is battling with false starts on his NanoFlash with his XLH1, something I can't afford with wildlife and live action shots, do you experience similar problems or is the post I'm referring to an isolated case?

The majority of our footage will be handheld, it is a run and gun type of situation, will we be able to do that with the NanoFlash attached to the camera or is it cumbersome?

Finally, in your opinion, what do you think of the picture quality achieved by following the NanoFlash route on the XLH1? I don't know if you've been in a position to compare the images you get with those from other cameras, e.g. the new Canon XF305 or Sony's EX range, but it interest me to find out whether my XLH1 would stand up to them or at least produce good enough images for this project.

Any advice will be greatly appreciated.

One more thing, on your set-up list you have a Hama Accessory Shoe, but I can't see where you've used it on your camera from the pictures you've posted...

PS> If anyone else want to chip in and give their two pennies worth of advice I'd also really appreciate that!!!

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Hi Didi,

I see you live in Tzaneen: I used to work in Makalali Game Reserve not so far from there (these days I'm usually based in Uganda though).

For me the decision was easy enough. I'd invested a deal of money in the XLH1system (the 6x lens, cases, portabrace etc), and I was happy with the style of shooting it offered. There was too much change in the video industry recently for me to buy a new system (I keep thinking if I buy something new now, then something better will be around the corner)! I'm waiting to see if Canon brings out an XLH1 successor. In the meantime the nano keeps my camera up to date, and if I decide to invest in a new system (like an F3 or an AF100; then the nano can also be used to improve those new systems too - so it seems like a good investment all round).

I'm not sure how the XLH1 compares with the new generation Canon XF series, nor have I ever really compared it to any other cameras I'm afraid.

The Nanoflash really does improve the quality of the footage. It also makes your workflow more streamlined by cutting out the tapes.

Most people using the XLH1 Nanoflash combo are happy with the results. However some people find that there is an issue with noise in the image. I've noticed this too, although my XL has always been a bit noisy to begin with, but it does not detract from the image (in my eyes). I find that you really have to get in and tweak the settings until you find something that works and then save it as a preset. The XLH1 has some noise reduction filters (NR2 at setting 1 usually works for me).

Also, bear in mind that you will be dealing with 2 sets of batteries instead of one. You also wont be able to review your nano footage on the camera (unless you have an external monitor attached). The cables dont bother me as they are all looped on the offside end of the camera (and they kind of make the camera look more 'professional' - sounds silly but its true).

I've had some false triggers with my set-up, where the nanoflash records a few seconds of footage. This does not bother me as I just delete them on my computer. It happens when I turn the camera on or off, and the tape moves a bit (causing the nano to see the timecode changing). I think there is a setting to get around this, however I usually switch off the nanoflash before switching off the camera (and switch on the nano after the camera) in which case I dont get any false starts.

The nanoflash would be the best option for running-and-gunning as it is very compact and rugged. I dont think any other external recorders would suit that job (the nano has no moving parts, no fans etc).

I think an external monitor would be a good investment, as the XLH1 always had a lousy viewfinder, and using the HDMI out of the nano you can actually see what the nano is seeing.

I used the Hama screw to actually mount the nanoflash to the accessory plate (you can see a silver nut beside the battery in the first photo - that is bolted through the plate and in to the nano). The battery was just velcro'd directly to the plate. I have since bought a battery cradle from Dolgin engineering that allows the nano to be powered by canon batteries - still working out how to mount that up. I'm flying back to Uganda tomorrow, but I can send you some clearer photos of the set-up in a couple of days when I get settled.

By the way: is there a canon dealer in South Africa who can service the XLH1?

Cheers,

Simon

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Simon thank you for taking the time to write back to me, I really appreciate it.

So you've been working in my backyard! How long where you based at Makalali? I honestly didn't expect anyone on this forum to have the faintest idea where I live, but you've just proven me wrong... I guess once Africa is in your blood that's it, you always end up coming back.

Anyway, the grainy/noisy image of the XLH1 is exactly the thing that worries me a little bit... I know that I'll be able to up the specks of the footage with the NanoFlash but I don't know if the picture will be acceptable to HD broadcasters. Mind you I also like the noisy film look that the XLH1 produces, one of the things I fell in love with when I bought the camera a couple of years ago.

I normally use the PANALOOK preset that I offloaded from this forum when I got the camera but I will need to change that for something more neutral and clean that I would be able to intercut with footage from other cameras at a later stage as I will add a second main camera within the next two months or so (Also trying to decide between an AF101, PMWF3K, FX305, or one of the EX models... each has it's plus and minus points and I'm as confused as a kid in a candy shop...) I guess I will also have to look at the noise reduction settings and play around with the camera presets as you've suggested... if you have any that you can recommend I'm open to suggestions.

I pretty much have decided to invest in the NanoFlash, If I can get the XLH1 footage to play nice with a new camera I'd be able to use it as a B-roll which kinda is exactly what I need. I have an intern who's going to be in charge of the B-roll camera and frankly I feel a little more comfortable handing over my old camera than a brand new one, especially when we're going to be running after elephants in the bush.

I will have to place an order next week and I'm going to get the items you've specified in your previous post and copy your rig. Thanks for posting it!!!

We do have a Conon service center in Johannesburg and I send my cameras in for a service every year... dust in places like the Masai Mara etc. tends to get in everywhere. The only thing that they cant do over here it seems is the upgrade that would make the camera interchangeable between PAL and NTSC frame rates and thats been a bit of a bugger-up as I would really like to have the ability to choose between a 24 or 25 progressive frame rate.

I guess thats the other big question mark I'm struggling with, deciding whether to shoot 24 or 25 frames per second on this project as it will inevitably end up in both Europe and America...

Thanks again for your advice, I really appreciate it and any pictures or suggestions would be a great help.

Have a safe trip to Uganda!

Didi

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Simon,

Thanks for the informative post. I had the opportunity to use the
Nano on my XLH1 last year. I also noticed artifacts, which is what kept me from buying one. There
were closely-spaced horizontal lines similar to interlacing (I was shooting 24p).
In addition I was only able to see better color quality using a whole lot of imagination. You mentioned
tweaking the settings to get optimal results. Would you mind mentioning what some of those settings might be, for I am thinking again about buying a Nano.

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Hi Steve,
I've not seen the horizontal lines you mentioned before - perhaps this was an incorrect setting in the nano (PSF off?), or a faulty cable (but I'm just guessing here)? If you can get a hold of one then its worth testing as many settings as possible, with both the camera and the nano until you find what works best (other nano users said they had to look for their cameras 'sweet spot').

Unfortunately I have not had a chance to properly test the footage on my editing computer as I bought the nano while I was in Ireland (but most of my equipment is in Uganda). From what I have seen it is a definite improvement though (especially if you run the hdmi out to a big screen tv - people have said the footage was some of the sharpest they have seen).

That said I was always happy with the footage produced by the XLH1 on tape - straight off the camera it always looked great to me. It was only when I tried to do some serious colour correction that the HDV artifacts became unusable, especially if I then tried to compress for DVD. Having the full 1920x1080 instead of 1440 × 1080 is a real bonus too. I have yet to really try playing around with the higher rates, for the moment I have been using 50mbs. It really adds up by the way (so get a couple of extra hard drives).

I worked out a number of presets that worked nicely with the light here in Ireland, I think it was AC Pref1, with Cine 1, with the core upped a bit, plus the detail reduced a bit. For low light situations I had the next Preset the same but with NR2 put to one. If possible I always shoot at -3db. I'll have to double check when I unpack the kit in Uganda. I presume I'll have to tweak the settings for the richer colours in the tropics.

Didi, I'm really jealous of you running through the bush filming elephants! Give me a buzz if you ever need a 'C' camera! I was at Makalali for a year as part of my FGASA ranger training - it was one of the best years of my life.

Cheers,
Simon

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Enormous improvement to my XLH1 footage with a nano, in my case initially at 100 Mbps Long-GOP and latterly 180 Mbps I-Frame.
"Juicy" though, eats up 64 gig CF cards so best to have a back up like a "Nexto".

I don't though see much scope for "run and gun" with an XLH1 (original) and a nanoFlash. Cables everywhere and I generally use a monitor (Swit) which takes an SDI signal from the nano so more cable. Note that a monitor will not show any viewfinder info or zebra patterns so you'll still need a viewfinder for accurate exposure unless you use auto. I bought a S/H FU-2000 unit from B&H which useful as can be used "off camera" so to speak but yet more cable.

I got one of those tripod apron things which very handy for holding the FU-2000 and my CH910 battery holder (for powering the nano off a Canon battery)

A final point, about the XF305, fixed lens unlike an XLH1. I film birds, and find my recently acquired Canon EF 70-300 L USM lens very good.
Final final point. Avoid "gain" like the plague with a nano, as this is picked up and magnified.

Ron

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

" Note that a monitor will not show any viewfinder info or zebra patterns "

If you use a monitor that accepts the Component feed from the XLH1, you will get all the same info and Zebra Patterns that you see in the viewfinder.

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

I don't think it is possible for the XLH1 to output both an SDI signal to a nanoFlash and simultaneously output a component signal to a monitor. With a nano one can obtain a SDI signal from the camera and output this from nano to monitor either as a SDI signal or a HDMI signal, depending on the monitor. However, and as said, there will not be any VF information.

I have a component monitor, and as John says, this will display VF information. I do not like at all the DTC-1000 component cable that comes with the cam as like a piece of rope hanging off the back of the camera but academic if one is using a nanoFlash.


Ron

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

All of the outputs on the XL H1 are hot at the same time, so component will work with SDI.

On the newer XLH1s and XLH1a, Canon provided a component cable that attaches to the EVF2 port, so you can use that to monitor to a larger monitor, with a smaller, simpler cable.

Hope this helps.

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Presumably this cable will work with a basic XLH1. Difficult to get informed info. from retail trade here in UK about XLH1(s) which I guess they see as yesterday's camera(s).

Scrabbling around in the dark without Forums such as this one.

Ron

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Ron - just checked our XLH1 (original version - not S) and the component out to a DP1 monitor does show all camera viewfinder info EXCEPT for zebra's. The zebras do still show in the camera's view finder. And the HD-SDI feed to a Convergent Design XDR Flash is still live for recording to the XDR.

The trick to get the camera's viewfinder info to display on the external monitor via component cable is to go into the camera menu and and turn "TV Display" > "On".

Hope this helps.

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

I need the cable that attaches to the EVF2 port. Nothing I could find online to suggest it is sold as an accessory or a spare.
Got to say that the necessity of a small jungle of cable with an XLH1 (mk.1) and a nanoFlash plus a monitor, which I find essential for most focussing situations, is a right pain.
Time code out, audio out, SDI out, SDI "in" to monitor, power in to nano, Lanc cable in, viewfinder connection, (have I missed any?). Then attaching the monitor plus battery to either the cam or, preferably, to a tripod
Patience in large order is what is needed and the results are worth it, but run and gun? Have me doubts.

Ron

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Hi Ron, John & Michael

Thank you for all the information.

The bunch of cables on the camera is an issue and that has me a little worried. There's definitely not any room for a monitor in our shooting setup... I guess there's only one way to really find out and that's to give it a go and see how things pan out... lf it doesn't work I'll invest in another camera and use the XLH1 with Nano for more controlled work.

Ron is there any specific CP that you shoot with that gives you good results on the XLH1 with the NanoFlash? We will be filming stock footage for our documentary over a 6 month period and as we are most likely going to upgrade cameras during this period my head tells me that I should aim for neutral images that would easily intercut with footage from other cameras. I've read on the XF305 that there's talk about a BBC setting for the XF camera line and I was wondering if that might be something that could be used with the XLH1?

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

Good question! I was going to ask similar re CP settings with a nano attached to a XLH1. Try the Convergent Design forum on here, higher up.

Ron

Re: XL-h1 and convergent design nanoflash
 

I have to disagree with this. I have been filming part of a documentary in Ireland to do with the 'boy racer' culture. This was all run-and-gun, jumping in and out of cars, running away from cops, filming outdoors in the rain, filming in underground car parks etc. I dont think I ever had a chance to put the camera on a tripod, not even once. The whole thing was done on the shoulder.

I've been using an XL2 portabrace cover (with a rain slicker) while filming in the lousy weather in Ireland; I had to adjust it by cutting out some holes for the cables but it works fine.

I think my photos are earlier in this thread. There are just 3 cables from the camera to the the Nanoflash, two of these are heavy duty positive locking SDI type cables, and one is the audio cable. All 3 cables are on the offset side over the shoulder, so they are kept out of the way of your hands. I kept these SDI cables as short as possible so there is no play. I coiled the audio cable into a loop and then velcroed the cable to the accessory plate to keep it tight. Finally the nanoflash battery is tight in against the accessory plate with no cable play whatsoever.

The little plastic cover (that covers up the audio out ports) was annoying the hell out of me as it was rattling away the whole time. I was going to cut it off, until I figured there was an easy way to velcro it to the shoulder pad. A nice tidy solution. Industrial Velcro is your friend.

I agree that if you are using a battery cradle (with heavy Canon batteries) then this system is less solid and would only be used on a tripod. That said I am going to build a frame for the accessory plate to lock my cradle in tight (and then use velcro to strap the battery into the cradle tight). I'll see how that works out.

If you're using an external monitor then you'll be using a longer cable (but you'd have this issue with just about any external monitor on just about any camera).

I use my 6x wide lens for running-and-gunning these days, and this lens is very forgiving in terms of critical focus so I have not ever felt the need to use an external monitor with it.