Many thanks for the prompt reply. I think I have had the switches set correctly, I'll try again, the microphone (battery-powered) does give a signal direct to a mixer, but when I connect to the mixer through the MA100 (powered from the camera - a cluttered desktop) I get nothing. Odd, and a nuisance!

On simple (if not obvious) things. The Audio 1 input sensitivity is selected from the menu. It defaults to line level from the factory. Also, the MA-100 connects to the input jacks at the back of the handle by the MA-100's power jack, (The Audio 2 RCA jacks in the side of the handle are used for 12-bit/4-channel input mode.)

For other who might consider it, Nothing user-serviceable or ajdustable inside the MA-100.

Thanks Don,
I need to do a little experimenting. Thanks for the advice.

MA-100 or MA-200?
 

It should speak for itself, do I need 4 channels XLR sound inputs or will 2 suffice? But apart from this, is there another reason to choose the 200 over the 100? I'll be doing 1- or 2-person reportages with a lav and the on-camera mike sound, I guess the 100 will do...

Thanks!

Dan.

If you use all four on the MA200 you can record 2 mics at 16bit or record on 4 mics but only in 12bit on all 4 channels. Where as with MA100 you have only 2 channels so you can record two mics at 16bit. So If you are only just going to use 2 mics at 16bit then MA100 should suffice.

However I use the MA200 so I can have two main mics to camera for 16bit. And two other 'supporting' mics to minidisc so I can add them later in post if I need to add a bit more oomph to soundtrack, so that way I still keep 16bit. But some here have said they use 4 mics on 12bit and find it OK. Guess it depends on the quality of your sound source mics to how well or how bad this sounds. The MA200 does cost a bit more...but I thought it gives me the option if I ever need to run 4 mics. If I don't well at least the option is there.

... plus the MA-200 has a better shoulder rest ...

XL1S, MA-100, External and on-board mic problem
 

I'm sorry to start another thread about setting up this kind of set-up but I've read through them, read pages 51-53 of the manual many times and am still having a problem.

Here goes.

I have the MA-100 installed and connected to it is a powered sound mixer box which has a Sennheiser MKH416 attached to it.

I connect it to the two connectors on the MA-100 and we're off and running.

VCR settings are set to 12 1, 2. Each AUDIO is set to MIC.

If the switch is set to AUDIO 1, I can hear through the Senn no problems and it's fine. (Audio Monitor set to Stereo 1)

If the switch is set to Mic or ATT then I can hear through the on-board canon mic fine. (audio monitor - stereo 1)

In either case I hear nothing on Stereo 2 when I change the monitor to it or have it be the split audio monitor.

I've tried every variation on this I can think of and I'm totally and absolutely stumped.

I've got a shoot tonight that in some ways it won't matter that much but I'd love to have both going for one part of the shoot.

I'm sure I missed something but even after searching and reading everything I could I can't find it.

Again, sorry to open a new thread on this but I'm totally stumped.

Help me, Obi Wan Kanobi... you are my only hope.

thanks in advance.

Sounds like you have most of it right. From the menu mode have you set the it to 12 bit audio and the audio source to Audio 2?

-----
From the menu mode have you set the it to 12 bit audio and the audio source to Audio 2?
-------

In the menu screen under VCR set-up.

Audio Mode is set to 12 st 1, 2

Under that there are two selections:

Audio 1 : ---- (lined out if audio one switch is set to MIC or ATT)

Audio 2: which is set to Mic -- BUT I've tried it set to line and Mic ATT and both have the same results.


Are you talking about another setting?

Are the audio ouput plugs (RCA) of the MA100 plugged into the Audio 2 jacks on the side of the handle?

-------
Are the audio ouput plugs (RCA) of the MA100 plugged into the Audio 2 jacks on the side of the handle?
--------


Yes, and when I get signal from the XLR mic I get both channels and perfect sound.

Hmmmm. Cannot quit visualize your full setup. Could you repeat it is greater detaiil as to what is connected where, and the various switch and menu settings. Esp. what iws connected to audio 2, what is connected to audio 1, to the mic hack, and to the MA100.

Okay.

Equipment:

Camera:
XL1S.
Canon on board stereo microphone plugged into regular mini-jack

MA-100 installed. Jacks are plugged into RCA jacks on handle and third connector is plugged in.

External Microphone:
powered sound mixer box which has a Sennheiser MKH416 attached to it. Left and right XLR mic outputs from box

---------------------

Setup

I have not changed anything about how the Canon Mic which comes with all XL1S's. It is plugged into the mini-jacks.

The Sennheiser outputs are plugged into the 2 XLR jacks on the MA-100.


Menu Setup

Under VCR SET-UP

AUDIO MODE: 12 bit ST 1, 2

AUDIO 1 IN: MIC
AUDIO 2 IN: MIC


----------------

As I said above if the AUDIO 1 switch is set to AUDIO 1, I can hear through the Sennheiser microphone with no problems (both left and right channels) and it's perfect sound. This shows that the MA-100 and the Senn mic set-up are working fine (Audio Monitor set to Stereo 1)

If the switch is set to Mic or ATT then I can hear through the on-board canon mic fine. (audio monitor - stereo 1)

In either case I hear nothing on Audio 2 when I change the monitor to Stereo 2 or have it be the Split Audio monitor.

I have tried all variations in the AUDIO 2 menu options (mic, Mic-ATT, Line) and get the same results.

I think that covers it all.

I'm not sure I understand you that wel about your set up. But on the menu for Stereo 2 - mic, att mic, line - they are to set for the input and relevant settings for those types of inputs, ie, LINE is different from Mic. But mic is just to say that the source is a mic - NOT to set it to onboard mic.

Are you using onboard mic in Stereo 1 and then externals on Stereo 2 ? Cos correct if I'm wrong but that is the only set up. If you try the other way round I dont think it will work cos the 3.5 jack is just Stereo 1 only (I believe). Just selecting Mic for stereo 2 on menu doesnt mean onboard mic, just A mic source.

Okay.

What I want is to have sound being recorded from the on-board Canon Microphone plugged into the mini-jacks.

Okay?

I also want to have sound recorded (at the same time) from the Sennheiser Microphone that I have plugged into the MA-100 which is plugging into the Audio 2 RCA jacks on the back of the handle.

Okay?

I am not trying to get the onboard mic to record on any other channel but Stereo 1.

I want the external mic to record on Stereo 2.

I want to have the camera record the 4 channel stereo set-up just like in the XL1S manual pages 51-53.

What is wrong is that I am not getting any sound throughput on Audio 2 despite the Audio 2 settings being EXACTLY as they are saying in the manual.

In the manuals they say that you should set the setting for Audio 2 to MIC if you are having the audio 2 input coming from a device such as the MA-100 or MA-200.

You wrote: "I have plugged into the MA-100 which is plugging into the Audio 2 RCA jacks on the back of the handle. "

From the bahavior you describe and your note above, sounds to me like you have the MA100 connected to the Audio 1 input, which is on the back of the handle near the video output jacks (see page 11 of the manual).

The Audio 2 input is on the side of the handle, see page 10 of the manual, not the back, under a rubber cover that may be marked "Audio 2".

UUUUGGGGGGGG ------


Don, I bow before your genius....



My fault was following the directions included in with the MA-100 which obviously were for the XL1 unit.


Gratitude abounds in your direction !!!!


I don't think I even noticed that jack on the side.

Yes, I now look in the XL1S manual and see the jacks shown in plain sight.

You da' man, Don.

FWIW: The Audio RCA jack locations are the same on the XL1. I suspect that the MA-100 shows the Audio 1 conection beacuse that is the more common configuration.

Glad to see you have finally got it figured out. You had me stumped, until the Eagle Eye Don spotted the BACK of handle.
I guessed you was trying to put different mic sources through Audio 1. Nice to see you have found audio 2.

So I guess you should have no problems, until you come to try and capture 4 tracks!

LOL! actually, it worked out fine that we didn't have 4 tracks...

We were hired to shoot part of a documentary which covered the art gallery opening of an artist. We did pre-opening interviews and we shot during the opening.

The Sennheiser we used did a great job of capturing the surrounding sound and the subject that was talking since we weren't far from them.

I can now say that I have a better understanding of the setting up of the Audio 1 and 2 systems of the XL1S then I ever thought possible.

Yes, Eagle Eye Don is the man of the hour. I hope his mom gives him an extra big slice of cake for desert all week long!

I would like to see someone add that little detail about where the AUDIO 2 jacks are located on the XL1 and XL1S to the pages here that have the instructions on how to set-up the sound in the menus and such.

<<<-- Originally posted by Kevin Burnfield :
I would like to see someone add that little detail about where the AUDIO 2 jacks are located on the XL1 and XL1S to the pages here that have the instructions on how to set-up the sound in the menus and such. -->>>

Kevin, detailed audio configurations are explained on this site. Take a look here http://www.dvinfo.net/canon/articles.php#audio

Thanks Ed.

My brain is shot this week... we shot interviews till 2am last night.



That's my story--- I'm sticking with it.

MA-100 question
 

I just bought an MA-100 second hand, and don't have any documentation for it. I've searched the web but can't find any; I'm not sure if any documentation for the MA-100 even exists...

My question though is this: I noticed a power cable that connects from the MA-100 into the back of the XL1-s; what exactly is this for? Does this provide phantom power to the XLR connectors, or does it serve some other purpose?

Regards,

-Steve Vandergriff

The power cable plugs in to the 5 VDC jack on the back of the handle. it provides power for the electronics in the MA-100. It must be plugged in for the MA-100 to work. Also, the MA-100 must be pluggerd in to the RCA audio jacks.

The MA-100 does NOT provide phantom power for a microphone.

Also, the MA-100 should be limited to MIC level inputs. It starts to clip at around -10 dBV inpout signal. DO NOT use it with line level signals.

MA 100 for line level source
 

Can I just say that I completely agree that you cant really use the MA100 for a line level signal.

I tried this recently and needless to say the sound is not really usable.

I admit that I have pretty much given up on recording to the XL1 and use a DAT to record my sound.

Rob Castiglione

Using Xl1 for line level source
 

The last posting concerning the MA 100 prompts me to ask the following question.

Is it possible to record to the XL1 at all using a line level source and get broadcast quality sound? Is this just a problem for the MA100?

I now record to DAT and only use the camera as a guide track as suggested by Jay Rose in one of his excellent books (and eventually will buy one of those amazing nifty looking Sound Devices Hard Drives which is coming out soon).

Rob Castiglione

One can use an in-line attenuator to reduce line level signals to around -35 dBV and then use the MIC ATT setting. However, many mixers and wireless system do have MIC level output capability that works with the MA-100.

While not a prefessional DAT-quality record section, the XL1 audio is quite good (overall better that other camcorders in its price range) and easy to use - once one learns it. And it certainly can reduces the amount of gear one has to haul in the field.

It all depends on the details of the audio requirement for the shoot.

The MA-100 and MA-200 are intended for microphone inputs. The power supply is needed for the mic preamps in the MA-100/200. If you need to record line levels, bypass the MA-100/200 and input directly into the RCA inputs. I do this fairly often with good results. As always I monitor the audio levels to avoid peaks, using the built-in record level indicators.

Two options for line level input with the MA-100:

Use an inline attenuator to reduce the line level to around -35 dBV and use MIC ATT setting on the Audio 1 input. Shure and AT offer these devices as does Markertek. (Use MIC ATT setting for lower noise floor.)

Alternatively with line level output, you could use a balancd to unbalanced adapter then also can pad the signal down to about -10 dBV and connect directly to the Audio 1 (or Audio 2 for 12-bit recording) input. You can mount these barrel adapters on the MA-100. Markertek carries these products, as will most professional music/audio dealers.

"Broadcasty quality" is a nearly maningless term given that virtually anything can be broadcast - consider the average used car dealer ad on late night TV.

I'm still trying to figure out exactly what's inside the MA-100 that requires power from the camera in the first place.

-Steve Vandergriff

Sound quality using Xl1s
 

Don't get me wrong, I love this camera and use it a lot.

But there are of course at least some objective standards when it comes to sound and measuring audio performance.

Read what Jay Rose has to say about the audio performance of the Xl1 compared to a range of other cameras and formats in "Producing Great Sound for Digital Video 2nd edition pp175 ff.

Rob Castiglione

The sound capabilities of the camera are fine for ENG and similar type work. But for the highest quality recording audio should be recorded to DAT. Audio is not great on any of the cameras in this price range. Audio capabilities will meet some peoples needs, but others should search out alternatives within their budgets (DAT, Mini Disc etc.).

The MA-100 contains an electronic (i.e., no transformers) balanced-to-unbalanced converter that is based on operational amplifiers. The 5 VDC powers the circuits.

Don's comments about line levels are right on. Even with an attenuator, it can be tricky. Early-on, I tried feeding a low level signal from my Mackie to the MA-100 -- I screwed up more than one recording. It goes into hard limit amazingly easy. Once I switched to the Beachtek for line-level stuff, the problems went away.

As with most stuff, there a few devices that do everything well. Stick to mics only with the MA-100.

xl1s levels
 

I have found the on-board mic (xl1s does a very nice job in most ENG situations, and it has some limits related to dramatic scenes. What I'd like to do is find an extension cable for the on-board mic so it can be used as a short boom or stick mic for interviews,

Thank you everyone, that's the info I was looking for!

Regards,

-Steve Vandergriff

MA-100 / MA-200 Line input
 

I am not an audio expert and do not know how this worked out but it did. I shot a live stage performance for a performer's personal viewing purposes where the audio was the most critical part as described by the client. They said make sure the audio is clean. Well, I set up near the audio engineers and took a feed from their mix and went into my XL with an XLR Y-adapter into the MA-200 and the audio was perfect. I made sure to ride the levels the whole time. At first during sound checks, the audio was distorted but after toggling through the menu selections it became clean. I hate to admit this but I cannot remember which setting I finally used. I do remember that what worked didn't make sense. In other words, I first tried what made sense, the line selection, and that's what was distorted. So, it was either the mic att20 or the mic setting. The fact is that it worked and the audio was clean.

MA-100 / MA-200 Line input
 

I am not an audio expert and do not know how this worked out but it did. I shot a live stage performance for a performer's personal viewing purposes where the audio was the most critical part as described by the client. They said make sure the audio is clean. Well, I set up near the audio engineers and took a feed from their mix and went into my XL with an XLR Y-adapter into the MA-200 and the audio was perfect. I made sure to ride the levels the whole time. At first during sound checks, the audio was distorted but after toggling through the menu selections it became clean. I hate to admit this but I cannot remember which setting I finally used. I do remember that what worked didn't make sense. In other words, I first tried what made sense, the line selection, and that's what was distorted. So, it was either the mic att20 or the mic setting. The fact is that it worked and the audio was clean.

Ma 100 or jack problem?
 

I tried use my ME66 with the MA100 yesterday, and could not get any sound on the XL1s's VU meters. New batteries, everything plugged in and hooked up correctly. I finally discovered today that the little cord on the MA100 (the power supply, I believe?) is not connecting with its corresponding jack on the back of the XL1s for some reason. Even when all the way in, dead silence. I jiggled it and pushed it, and finally got something, but it was very static-y, though you could hear the actual sound the mic was recording as well. What can I do? Please don't tell me to send anything to anywhere. I'll just cry.

The small plug provides +5 VDC for tha MA100. It MUST be connectd to the corrsponding jack at the back of the camcorder. Also, the audio leads from the MA100 MUST be conencted to the Camera body. If they are not connected, the MA100 does not receive power because the earth return for power is via the audio ground (not the power cord).

Assuming you are using 16-bit audio mode, the MIC/Audio 1 switch behind the door should be set to Audio 1, and the Audio 1 input level on themenu menu should be set for MIC ATT or MIC level.