Canon would be a good source of info for the focus ring. Chris would be also.

I have an older XL1 (1998) and the focus on it is great. I can zoom in and focus and then go wide and it's perfect. I find it hard to use this lens in manual so I usually leave it on auto as it performs better than I do! I'm sure the manual lens would make it more easier while using manual though. I love my 3x wide lens. 2 perfect combos would the 3x wide and the manual lens.

Rik -- ask that person to re-register please. I'll send out an apology to all the folks we lost, when I get home from MacWorld. Luckily I have a record of these folks with their contact info. I'll try to show this thread to the Canon tech reps here at the show tomorrow and get an answer about the tactile friction in the focus ring.

Chris,
I had lunch with him today and told him to re-register and to check out this thread and for him to post a response, my friend's name is Rob Moreno.

Let us know what the Canon people say. When you show them the thread, tell them everyone in Japan says for Canon to give Chris an XL-1s or we'll sic some sumo wrestlers on them:-)

Hocus Pocus Automatic Focus
 

Hi all, I also had the same problem with the manual focus a few times, i.e. though the camera was in the manual mode, the automatic focus tried its best to overcome my commands.

From time to time I press the AF button even when in the manual mode. That feature sometimes helps to find the focus faster if you are in a hurry. However, of course, very often the focus "breathes", i.e. goes in and out and sometimes hits, and sometimes it does not.

I accepted the fact that I cannot count on the automatic focus. It has betrayed me several times and even when I was filming a very important show (outdoors) from some odd 30-yard distance. It was one of my first attempts to use the camera and as a newbie I tried the auto mode. Horror! Too many faces were off the focus for a moment and then fine again and of course I could not have seen it on my CVF.

I read here that many people have sent their cameras to Canon to fix this problem with the automatic focus. My questions to all of you are:

1. Can the automatic focusing problem be really fixed or do we have to live with it?

2. Is the fix considered by Canon an adjustment or a repair and how much do we have to pay for the service? (N.B. I got my camera 4 months ago.)

Thanks in advance for your answers,

Another thing you need to watch out for are changes in you DOF (depth of field). If the aperture changes, DOF changes too. If you are at that edge when the aperture moves, focus can change too.

Nathan Gifford

For the guy who wanted to not have servo noise during zooms -- I have the manual lens, and if the servo is selected (as oppose to manuall operating the zoom ring) then you will still hear the zoom noise -- at least I can.

Depth of field and an optics manual
 

Hi Nathan,

Thanks a lot for your advice. I thought that my focusing problem was related to the "soft focus problem", so I did several experiments in the auto mode following the recommendations from the Watchdog.

1. I turned on the ND filter, and the auto focus was still skipping;
+
2. I increased the shutter speed, even that did not help;
+
3. I also reduced the gain to -3 and added a circular polarizing filter, even that did not help.

The only way for me to avoid that fuzzy focus was to turn off the automatic focus. However, even with the auto focus off and while operating in the manual mode, in a few cases I lost the focus for a second or two though I was filming around the "sweet spot", i.e. f 5.2-5.6.

<<If you are at that edge when the aperture moves, focus can change too.>>

1. Can you or somebody else, please, clarify more your previous statement?

2. Can somebody recommend a concise and clear manual/book dealing with optics and DV/35mm/16mm cameras where I could find all of the terms (like DOF, white balance, etc.) briefly explained and with advices as to trouble shooting while shooting?

(I have, for instance, the “Filmmaker’s dictionary”, and it defines the terms, but does not work much on concepts and solutions to problems.)

Thanks a lot again,

XL1s Focus
 

Have an XL1s. Took it to an air show over the weekend and found out that the auto focus was about worthless. Couldn't seem to stay in focus. I did have a circular polarizer as well as a
uv filter on it. Could this have been the problem?

Looking Glass

What subjects and conditions were you shooting when you decided that the 16x lens' autofocus circuitry is "worthless"?

That lens can focus as close as 3/16th of an inch in front of the glass, so it's highly possible that a speck of dust or lint on your filter stack was causing the AF to hunt quite a bit. Just a theory.

I had some problems with the sky and autofocus. It just didn't
know to focus on the bird or on the clouds behind it.....

I do a fair amount of nature work, including hawks in flight. I almost always use manual focus. The AF usually doesn't have enough contrast to focus accuratly. Also, the constant movement of the wings and background (panning with subject) doesn't help the AF either, it's constantly hunting for something to lock onto.

Jeff

AF needs contrast; i.e., generally vertical edges to work best. It does not work well if edges are horizontal (e.g., venetian blinds) of if the subject is low contrast, like an open or overcast sky. Manual focus is the better way to go, especially since most air show action is likely to be at a good distance (near optical infinity).

Also, on a bright day the XL1 can try to focus on dirt/dust on a filter, especially if that is the highest contrast item in the image. Even in manual focus mode, when stoped down the depth of field is so great that any crud on the filter may become visible in the image.

I rarely use filters for this type of work, either. Maybe a polarizer, or ND but I never stack filters. It's like asking for problems with flare or ghost images.

Jeff

As everyone has said, for what you were doing, the auto focus should have been turned off. I very seldom use the auto focus feature. Recently, I had to shoot aircraft taking off and landing. In shooting a test prior, I saw that I could not use the auto focus. Shot everything manually. Turned out fine.

Jay

Focus
 

Okay, Thanks everyone. Appreciate your help. I was trying to
autofocus on fast aircraft, but stationary objects were hard to nail
also.

Looking Glass

A question about XL1 cameras. Help!
 

Hello everyone!

My first post and let me begin with how cool I think this site is!

I host, write and produce a series on TNN, and for the last 5 years, have used Sony-DSR300 & Sony PD-150 cameras. I've done a couple of episodes with an XL1, as well.

I love the XL1 design, but I had continuing problems with the back focus not working. (What I mean is, if I push in tight on someone's face, get a crystal clear focus, the camera goes out of focus if I pull wider on the shot).

A few days ago I bought an XL1S and right out of the box, it will not hold a back focus either. Am I doing something wrong? Is there an adjustment? Or, have I just had a run of bad luck and 2 out of the 2 XL1 cameras I bought were lemons?

Any advise would be appreciated.

Thanks, & good shooting!

Dave Watson

I have both an XL1and XL1s and have the fortune of not having this problem. I would talk to the dealer first and see if an exchange is in order for the defective camera. If the dealer provides no assistence I would call Canon and make arrangements to send the camera in for service. I use 3 different lenses, in addition to the EOS EF adapter, with my XL's and I've yet to have this problem (knock on wood?). So, I don't think this is relaited to use. My best guess is that something occured in shipping.

Canon is a fairly responsive company. If your relate your expierences to them on the phone they may be willing to expedite your repair if it comes to that. Post back how things work out.

Jeff

What lens did you get with the XL1s? I haven't had a look on mine yet (haven't had a reason), but most cameras have a small screw on the lens where you can adjust the back focus - however it is very sensitive and you might be better off going back to the dealer who should be able to fix it for you.

If Canon haven't enabled people to adjust the back focus I'd be very surprised - but on the other hand, I do tend to be surprised a lot nowadays...;)

Good luck anyway!

Regards
Jon

The 16x (white lens) that most people get as part of the kit does not have a user adjustable back focus, nor does the 3x wide angle. The Canon manual focus lenses (old 14x and new 16x) do have user adjustable back focus. If you do have a manual focus lens with your XL, adjusting the back focus is fairly easy. do a search on key words back focus and you see several threads on how to adjust it.

Jeff

re: back focus problem
 

I have encountered the same problem with the 16x IS II lens: When zooming out, the picture goes out of focus!

There was another problem that taught me a valuable lesson. NEVER use the auto focus on the 16x IS II lens!! Also don't let your sublects stand too close to walls...

I had a close-up head shot in which I used auto-focus. Now I've done this with cheaper DV cameras like the Sony PD100 and everything was fine. But with the IS II, the lens kept on focusing on the wall in the backgroud (which was a feet away from my subject) whenever my subject moved her head.

Is there something wrong with my lens (like Jeff suggested)??
Has anyone encountered any similar problems??

thanks
JOe

Hi Joe,

It sounds like you have several problems or areas of confusion, but I think your situation is different from Dave's. The loss of AF with a subject so close to another subject is very common. Your subject turned her head and the AF sensor saw either more of a pattern in the wall or the subject's head became smaller (sideways) and the sensor saw the large wall as the subject. An easy fix is to switch to MF in those situations.

There can be several causes for the lens going out of focus as you zoom from tele to wide. This is discused in the articles here on the XL1 Watchdog. The following articles will address your concerns

Backfocus Issue, Yes or No?
Soft Focus Problem and Workaround

Canon also suggests that a slower zoom speed may be necessary for the AF to maintain focus while you zoom.

Jeff

.
Dave,

I had the same problem with the stock lens, to the point where I thought the XL1 wasn't really a viable camera for everyday use.

Then I bought the 16x manual lens. It performs much more like the "pro" lenses you're used to.

I use the XL1 almost exclusively now.

Mike Avery

It is probably a soft focus issue...
 

The Canon auto lenses for the XLs lack back focus. Yes this has been a long discussed issue with the XL-1/1S. Early editions of the XL-1 may have had a problem with soft focus and there was lots of fussing about this. The short story was that it was finally resolved.

I recommend reading the lens articles on the dvinfo.net site, especially the ones that Jeff Donald mentions. If nothing else they really do explain how the auto lens system works.

After that if you are still having problems, a visit to Canon about the soft focus would be in order.

Finally, if you really like the Canon but hate the lens, you might want to try some of the manual lens options: they are really good.

XL-1 focusing issues - which one?
 

Dave,
Howdy. No, you're not alone. I use four XL-1's all bought at the same time and, you guessed it, every damn one of them will not hold a focus from a tight to a wide after a tight manual focus. Occasionally with AF you can get an uninterrupted focus with a slow zoom in or out. From what I have read and heard from other users, it's caused by these servo lenses and really the only way to go for reliable critical focus is the manual lenses. The only very simple work around that I have found that works is to either push to focus and release or use AF until you have settled and then lock it by switching to manual. As far as focus drifting described by another poster, it happened to me a while back once in an interview situation.......once! I was using AF and not paying attention and the subject was soft enough to notice the whole time and the background and its activity was just so nice and clear, you can just imagine the feeling when reviewing the footage. Luckily, documentary shooting has some tolerances. This was an interview with the subject screen left or right. Apparently, the lens focuses on the center of the screen at all times. So the beam shoots right past the subject if framing is set left or right of center. A recommended fix is to set your framing with the subject CENTERED, manually or AF until you know that it's sharp, leave it on manual and then pan left or right to compose the offset interview. If you don't leave it on manual, then any activity or static, dominant source in the background will cause the focus to search and give the camera away, at least the fact that you're using one with AF, not a good feeling, especially when you're telling the producers that you were using Betacam. Ha! From what I've read, heard and occasionally experienced about AF is that it searches for dominant fields to adjust to and goes into overdrive with a solid, neutral background. Just wait and see how fun it is to shoot through thick limbs and leaves with that good ole AF. Hope this helps.

Heard a lot of negative reviews on focus problems with XL1s
 

Can someone tell me if this is a common flaw of the cameras? Have they been fixed in the newer models?

Im very close to getting one, but the biggest complaint I have heard have been focusing problems.

See http://www.dvinfo.net/xl1faq.htm

Don't think I've used AF for much of anything. I'm a fan of the "push AF" button. Since I still use manual focus 35mm cameras, I found it helpful. I suppose if I were used to auto everything, I wouldn't have bought the xl1S.

Read the link Chris has provided. This has been over the years an item of considerable debate. I have never had the problem with my XL-1.

The biggest complaints are regarding auto focus.

I keep mine turned off and that avoids the problem entirely.

Exactamundo, Sensui, leave the AF off and it won't hunt around, which is the biggest source of complaints about focus--it's all about the lens not being able to decide which point to focus on when objects are at different distances. Like 1 Jophoto, I like the "push AF" button.

I use the push AF quite a bit - probably too much. I would prefer to manually focus more, but due to the shortcomings of the stock EVF (poor resolution), I find I'm not always confident that the focus is right on. I am getting more used to the EVF, but I would like to try the optional B&W one or an external LCD like the one described in Chris' article on the five best accessories. Beautiful "in focus" shots are the norm for the XL1s, but being confident that my shots are OK is not. I usually am a bit anxious until I get home and view my days work on a monitor. I also recommend experimenting with the camera hooked up to a monitor once in a while. I should mention that almost all of my work is outdoors-run and gun stuff.

XL-1 focus problem
 

I don't know if this is a back focus problem like I see others getting succesfully fixed by Canon or not. My lens problem is when the lens is at the widest setting the focus seems to just drift whenever it feels like it. I have to keep pushing the autofocus button every 5 seconds to get it back in focus. This all occurs when I'm in the "A" setting and the lens is set to manual focus. I've tried zooming in on a distant object focusing sharp then backing up and zooming in again the object is still in focus. It just seems like the autofocus is never turned off even though I'm 100% sure that it is. Is this a Canon fix or do I have to keep spending money for Canon's add ons ie 16x manual lens to fix problems they engineered into their products?

Your desciption does not sound like a back-focus problem. (That's where the lens does not hold focus on an object as you zoom in and out.) Rather, it sounds like your autofocus is a bit flakey and, as you speculate, may not be disengaging when you switch to Manual Focus.

No big ideas here, just a wild shot. If you've not already tried this, you might try removeing the lens and re-mounting it. The lens and body communicate through a series of contacts that are seated when the lens is squarely mounted. Maybe something's flakey there.

Otherwise that will definitely be a Canon repair.

I've noticed a similair to the effect you are experiencing when my XL1s is in the (M)anual mode. Although I don't get the wide angle drift the XL1s seemed incapable of holding focus when zooming in and out. At first I though that I had a back focus problem.

Strangely, setting the gain control to +0dB (or whatever) rather than (A)uto completely eliminates this problem. I've tested this several times. The last time being 5 minutes before making this post.

I know that this isn't quite your problem but try it out - you never know.

Sorry if that was of no help at all!

James,
Thanks I'll give it a try. I've never tried this method.

Johnathan

Hmmmm. Zoming when in auto gain mode may canse hot spots to move through the metering zones and cause changes in expsoure. And similarly, an area that is poor for autofocus (no contrast) may move through the AF sensor sampling zone. Also, auto focus needs some light, about 50 lux, to work well.

What?

The point being that during zooming (or during action in the iscene) the image presented to the various automatic-mode sensors is changing, and these changes could induce unwanted changes in aperture, shutter speed, gain, and focus.

Also changing aperture may change apparent focus of items inthe scene as thedepth of field changes.

(Also, I cleaned up some typos in the earlier post)