Precisely.

In this case, this is not a fault but a simple fact of optics.

Further testing (playing) confirms Don's elucidation upon my observations.

James,

I'm having a similar problem with my 16x lens...except mine occurs at about 80% of full zoom. Adrian tells me that sending it in for service will do the trick.

John,

What I'm getting at is the fact that what some people are calling 'XL1 focus problems' are in fact caused by some of the automatic features of the camera creating optical changes which will affect your focus.

I've noticed quite a bit of focus paranioa on these boards and it easy to create the impression that everything comes down to the fact that there is a fatal flaw with the XL1 stock lens.

I think that there are myriad of problems being dumped into the same pot. Some genuine back focus problems, some lens defects, some motor defects and others which are simply not actual problems at all. I have been able to replicate some of these problems when using the XL1s in full automatic and semi-auto modes.

When I have the camera mode set to (M), focus set to manual, the white balance set to one of the presets (ie. not Auto) and gain controls set manually I have found that the XL1 performs exactly as expected.

I suspect that the real culprit is Canon's automatic system(s) on the XL1s which are relatively poor compared to Sony offerings or even that of it's little brother the XM2 (GL2). The bottom line is that the XL1s needs to be controlled completely manually in order to produce it's best images. I am comfortable with this although I can understand there are many situations where this can be a real pain the proverbial.

In your case, you are obviously experienced and I trust your judgement if you believe that this is a genuine defect with the lens. If so, I would follow your original course of action and send it to Canon.

Jim.

By the way, nice website John!

Maybe take a look at my "Replace the CCD" thread.... before you decide to take it in to Canon.

The mentioned thread can be found here

Thanks for visiting my site, James.

It would depend on when you bought your lens (or actually when it was produced). Apparently, on older XL1/16x lens combos like mine...that has never been sent in for a checkup...there are certain back focus issues, firmware updates, and lens modifications needed.

I've been needing to send my camera into Canon for a long time for servicing but haven't had a chance. And to be honest, I've been able to work around the focus problem. Mine goes soft at one brief spot while zooming at about 80% of full zoom. Also, like you, it does tend to drift out of focus when the camera is in auto mode (green box) and the lens is in manual. So, I've just worked around that...I stay away from auto as much as possible and just adjust my zooming range. But it's about time to get these things taken care of.

One of the other wranglers, Adrian, said he sent his camera in for servicing and had those problems cleared up. So, I imagine that'll be the case with me, too.

I'd wait for a consensus here, though, and see what some of the others think. If you haven't had it serviced yet or in a long time, though...couldn't hurt.

By the way...your site is looking good, too. I'll check back later to see it when it's complete.

XL1s Loss of Focus on zoom in out
 

I am sure that there has already been an answer to my questions but I will ask them anyway.

Setting the lens to AF, I have noticed that when I zoom in, the object goes out of focus for a second or two. If I refocus at full zoom, then zoom back out and then zoom in once more, the same thing happens before the subject automatically sharpens once again. Is this normal and is it just a case of zooming too fast onto a subject?

I have also noticed that if I pan using the AF lens mode, depending upon the speed of pan, the subject and backgroung goes out of focus very easily. I have found that if I pan using MF mode, the situation does improve but on occation the background is still liable to loose focus or blur.

I am interested in capturing wildlife in flight, and I am finding that if I set the lens to AF it is almost impossible to keep my subject, usually small, in focus. The lens appears to hunt far too easily loosing sight of the subject all to often. I am therefore forced in most cased to use the lens in MF. But then the subject is very quickly out of focus anyway.

Any advice would be most welcome
Terry

Auto focus works based on contrast in the focus zone (center) of the image, and vertical edges make for the best contrast, auto focus wise. Moderatly rapid zooming and/or panning can result in significant changes to the contrast profile of an image, and can cause the autofocus to hunt for better focus. Using manual focus setting will help.

Birds in flight can be a very difficult if not almost impossible auto focus target.

Panning will cause blur in an image, especially if zoomed in, due to motion, just like camera shake with a still camera.

Yep, that's about it.

The best thing for you to do is to practice your manual focus skills. You will be able to outfocus the AF in no time!
Then of course you will start lusting after one of the true manual focus lenses. :)

I do a lot of flight shots and AF is just not possible for any type of close work. I use Canon EOS EF lenses and manual focus to obtain good, sharp, footage. AF just isn't fast enough and the birds get lost in the sky and as Don points out, lacks sufficent contrast for the AF to work.

A good way to build up your manual focus skills is to zoom in all the way on a car in moving traffic and maintain the focus on the moving vehicle as it drives by. If you want a real test of your focusing skills, do this at night!

- don

xl1s can't focus in low light / close ups
 

my xl1s focus is set on auto. whenever i am in close range to someone (approx. 4 or 5 feet away) and the lighting is low (i guess you can compare the lighting to the lighting in most restaurants) my xl1s just can't seem to focus properly. what happens is the xl1s will seem to catch the correct focus, then fail, then catch the correct focus again and so on. this goes on for the length of the shot. what am i doing wrong?

Edwin,
The XL1s' difficulties with auto-focus are pretty well known. It's by no means alone. Most cameras in this class seem to have difficulty auto-focusing on scenes with dim light and low contrast.

It would be a good practice to begin learning to manage your focus manually, as most pro's and serious hobbyists do. First set your len to manual focus. Now target your primary subject, zoom-in close to set your focus (with the lens' focus ring or by pressing and holding the auto-focus button on the lens). Now pull the zoom back to frame the scene and shoot.

One additional comment on your post. Note that the minimum fucusing distance for the XL1s' standard lens is about 1 meter at full-telephoto and 20 cm at full-wide.

The auto focus needs some light and contrast in the subject to work. In the case of the XL1 specs it needed 50 lux for reliable operation - not sure what the figure is for the XL1s.

What are the official specs concerning focus for the 16x manual? What's the closest you can get fully zoomed in and still focus? Full Wide?

See the table at the bottom of my 16x Manual Servo review.

I'm sorry Ken, I don't understand, does it mean at both wide and macro it focus to 5cm, or only with the macro function on? I'd still like to know the minimum focus distance for the wide setting without macro activated.

Without macro function it focus' to 1m. In macro and lens zoomed to widest angle it will focus to 50mm, about 2 inches.

Alright, thanks. Sometimes on wide, I get close to my subject, but I can't see it any blurriness. Then, when editing, it looks a little soft. Now I know why.

For low cost closeup work, consider using a "closeup lens set" (really an adapter). A +1 or +2 adapter will work reasonably well with full zoom through and allow stand-off distance for lighting, etc. You can shoot from 18 inches and have a dime fill the frame. Note that depth of field will be rather small. The adapters can be rather low cost if you get a Hoya or Tiffen set, on a par with filter prices.

For a good bit more money you can buy a quality achromatic diopter adapter from source such as Century.

I also have a B+W close up set, an NL1 and NL2, combined together gives you an NL3 equivelant. Works very well, tho not entirely zoom-through. If you were going tight, you'd use an extender instead anyways, but wide allows for very close shooting.

Focus problem?
 

If I zoom in on a subject, focus and slowly zoom out, my XL1 loses focus. I was told that the early XL1 cameras have a focus problem. Is this true?

Some units shipped with poorly adjusted back focus, more common with early production.

There was a firmware issue in that if you set manual focus at anything less than full zoom, it would not track as you change zoom. This was corrected a few several years ago by a firmware patch.

The other issue is that auto focus mode in general is a bit fussy about what is in the focus zone of the scene. If image content is not suitable for auto focus sensing the lens will start to hunt.

Another issue is with supplementary lenses on the XL1.

I almost always have a Century 0.7 WA adapter mounted on my lens and it seems to cause a problem with back focus. The image just doesn't stay sharp throughout the zoom range.

If I take the WA adapter off, the lens works as advertised. I have two lenses, one from my original XL1 and one from the newer XL1s. The newer lens seems much more prone to this problem than the older lens. So at this point I'm relying on the older lens and have the newer lens set aside.

Dean Sensui
Base Two Productions

XL1s Stock Lens Focus Problem
 

Hi,

I'm having problems keeping focus when I zoom out. I have my XL1s set on manual exposure and focus (gain might be auto). I'm using the stock 16x lens.

I zoom in and use the auto focus buttom to focus, but when I zoom out the picture is out of focus. I think things seem better if I focus a few feet in front of my subject, but I don't always have something to focus on if I do this.

I'm thinking of buy the 16x manual servo lens to fix this problem. Will this help?

Thanks,

Leland

Sounds like it may be the back focus is off. See:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...&threadid=6021
for additional discussion that might partlyaddress your question.

James suggestion has totally eliminated any problems (I thought I had) with my XL1S...looks like the auto settings of the Canon are a bit sad/weak...but setting using (M) focuing, setting gain to 0 and preset your WB...the camera behaves as good/better than anything I've used (love the trademark softness of the Canon glass). In the big picture of things, we/I should be avoiding the auto settings anyway....
Mark

AF
 

On the camera lens there is a switch AF and M. you have to set this to M. even when you have the camera in
Manual it still will try to auto focus if this switch is set to AF. i hope this helps.

The camera also has to be out of "green box" mode too.

Do all standard 16x II lenses have back focus issues?
 

I've read a lot of posts from people with focus problems with the standard XL1S lens. A lot seem to deal with only autofocus hunting, but some seem to indicate that the back focus will eventually go "bad" on all XL1S cams, necessitating a trip to Canon for repair. Is this true? Or is this issue only with the standard ;ens that came with the old XL1?

It was not unusual for early production XL1 models to have poorly set back focus, and some early lenses did have a problem (mine was replaced under warranty). Have not heard much comment with respect to this in late production XL1 or XL1s models.

Back focus setting control for the standard lense is electronic, a value is stored in the internal XL1 memory (set using the RM-95 Adjusting controller). Installing a lens from a different body might result in a less than optimum backfocus setting for that lense-body combination.

Changes to the relative positions of the lens mount and CCD block (e.g., from being dropped, abused) or similar treatment of the lens could also result in a change to the effective backfocus setting.

Backfocus should be checked as part of routine maintenance.

I think a lot of the posts are made by people with limited experience with AF lenses and sensor and/or limited experience focusing. Many of the posts read something like, "I just shot my first (insert favorite avocation . . job, wedding etc.) and all my shots are out of focus." What usually follows is a plea for help in diagnosing their problem. Invariably someone pops up and suggests a back focus issue, remembering the problems with the early XL1.

Except for the early cameras and lenses, all the so-called back focus problems I've seen are actually operator error.

ronluc8667,
I just finished my first project (wedding) that that was done in total manual mode....what a dramatic improvement over previous shoots with various levels of automatic settings. To prepare my son and I for this, I spent an afternoon with the Canon hooked to a monitor and trying different settings and its effect on the overall look. It was well worth the time spent.

XL1S back focus problems?
 

Below is my email to Canon Technical Support and their response. Are they right?

Q:
With my XL1s in the Auto recording program and the lens in manual, I can zoom in on an object to get a focus, but when I zoom out focus is lost. Should this be happening?

A:
Thank you for your e-mail inquiry regarding your XL-1s. This is normal. When the manual focus mode is enabled on your camcorder the XL-1s will not achieve focus automatically. When in this mode you may use the focus ring around the lens to refocus when zooming.

Should you require further assistance, please feel free to email us or visit our customer support website.

I don't think they understood your question and were thrown-off by your "Auto" remark.

Put the camera on a tripod. Place the camera in full MANUAL mode, the lens in Manual Focus, zoom in to an object perhaps 10-15 feet away, press the "Push AF" button on the lens to set focus, release it then pull back out. How does focus look now? (Are you jusdging the focus in the color viewfinder, on the b&w viewfinder or on a tv?

I’ve shot several tests using the set up you recommended. I can get a sharp focus when I zoom in, but when I zoom out the focus is lost. I’ve hooked the camera up to a colour monitor and you can easily see the image go soft. When I press the “Push AF” button again the zoomed out image becomes sharp. Any ideas?

Thanks
David

I'm pretty sure that adjusting the back-focus of the lens will require sending the camera and lens to Canon service. To my knowledge the back-focus of the 16x IIS auto lens (I assume that's the lens we're talking about) can only be performed by Canon service.

Instructions on how to set back focus with the autofocus lenses are in the service manual. An RM-95 adjusting controller is required. Net investment on the order of $200 required for these items. Not something for the average user to try becuase a slip of the finger could make things worse. A bit more complex than programming a VCR.

This is the first time I've heard about this back-focus issue. Is it possible that this can happen only sometimes? I know this sounds crazy but it seems to be happening to me randomly. I posted a topic ( in the lens & optics forum) titled, "1.6 extender won't hold focus?" thinking it had something to do with using the extender with different lighting (I think everyone lost interest due to my ignorance). Anyway, maybe I'm not crazy after all and it can even be fixed?
TIA,
Randy