NLE to import 4 channels? at DVinfo.net

David S. White · March 6th, 2006, 12:20 AM

I'm looking for an NLE setup that imports all 4 channels of audio.

Current setup:

Canon XL1s
Vegas Video 4.0

I've just started doing weddings and recently recorded one where I ran the canon mic to Channel 1 and then ran wireless (Azden Dual Channel) to Channel 2 left/right. I thought everything was groovy until I got to import it all in and noticed that I was only getting 2 channels as a mix of ST1 and ST2.

Not really acceptable.

I did download Scenalyzer. It's cheap and does the job... but still only records ST2 to one .wav file that I can't really split to well... so... before I make the $40 plunge, I was wondering if there is anything out there that is better all around than that... specifically, I'm curious about Vegas 5. Anyone?

Thanks.
-David

Bill Zens · March 6th, 2006, 10:02 AM

I work in Liquid Edition, and it imports four channels as a natural part of the capturing environment, and is not an issue.
You'll capture it just fine with Liquid.

Bill

Greg Boston · March 6th, 2006, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David White

I'm looking for an NLE setup that imports all 4 channels of audio.

Current setup:

Canon XL1s
Vegas Video 4.0

I've just started doing weddings and recently recorded one where I ran the canon mic to Channel 1 and then ran wireless (Azden Dual Channel) to Channel 2 left/right. I thought everything was groovy until I got to import it all in and noticed that I was only getting 2 channels as a mix of ST1 and ST2.

Thanks.
-David

That's because you have the audio monitor set to mix. Try setting it to ST2 and capturing. Scenalyzer can also do audio only capture for the extra channels, no need to recapture the video a second time.

-gb-

David S. White · March 6th, 2006, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greg Boston

That's because you have the audio monitor set to mix. Try setting it to ST2 and capturing. Scenalyzer can also do audio only capture for the extra channels, no need to recapture the video a second time.

-gb-

You mean when I'm capturing? Does the audio monitor matter when I capture? Because as far as I can tell, it doesn't really seem to make a difference... (of course the documentation that Canon provides is a little shy on information). Whether I have it set to ST1 or ST2 or Mixed when I capture... it seems to capture both channels as mix regardless of what I do... I've tried this... capturing the same clips at different settings... and I could hear no difference.

The problem I have with the Scenalyzer (something I picked up from researching this question on these forums... thanks) is that it captures it in a .wav file which is going to be make syncing an issue... as I have numerous cuts on one tape with no markers what-so-ever. So, I'm hoping some other NLE can capture 4 channels natively and actually keep the sound synced up with the video image.

I appreciate the help... this is the first time I've tried to anything complicated with sound on the camera since I got the thing... so, I'm feeling a bit uneducated.

David S. White · March 6th, 2006, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Zens

I work in Liquid Edition, and it imports four channels as a natural part of the capturing environment, and is not an issue.
You'll capture it just fine with Liquid.

Bill

I know nothing about Liquid. I'll have to look for more info on it. Thanks.

Dan Euritt · March 6th, 2006, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David White

The problem I have with the Scenalyzer (something I picked up from researching this question on these forums... thanks) is that it captures it in a .wav file which is going to be make syncing an issue... as I have numerous cuts on one tape with no markers what-so-ever. So, I'm hoping some other NLE can capture 4 channels natively and actually keep the sound synced up with the video image.

i don't know what you have read elsewhere, but the second pair of audio channels captured as wave files by scenealyzer are the same length as the avi files that they correspond to... so there is no way that they can be out of sync.

when you put the avi files into the timeline, your editor should simply snap the 3/4 channel wave files to line up exactly... i do it all the time.

btw, scenealyzer will cut on all video scene changes, and the 3/4 audio tracks get cut at the same point.

David S. White · March 6th, 2006, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Euritt

i don't know what you have read elsewhere, but the second pair of audio channels captured as wave files by scenealyzer are the same length as the avi files that they correspond to... so there is no way that they can be out of sync.

when you put the avi files into the timeline, your editor should simply snap the 3/4 channel wave files to line up exactly... i do it all the time.

btw, scenealyzer will cut on all video scene changes, and the 3/4 audio tracks get cut at the same point.

Does it create two .wav files? One for each track (tracks 3 and 4)? Or does it mix L/R of Channel 2 for one .wav file?

Dan Euritt · March 7th, 2006, 06:25 PM

it puts channels 3/4 in one wave file, so you'd have to split 3/4 up with your editor, if you need that capability.

i believe that there is a free 30 day demo with scenalyzer, so you can try it before you buy... it's a great product!

on a totally irrelevant side note, if you are going to be using all 4 audio tracks that were captured with the firestore fs-4, and you don't want to use tape, you'll need a seperate application to bring those 3/4 channels into your editor... the last time i looked, scenalyzer would not pull 3/4 audio channels from a digital dv file, it only pulls 'em off of tape... neither would any software editor on the market, tho.

Michael W. Niece · April 5th, 2006, 04:58 AM

I use Edius from Canopus, and it'll import all 4 channels just fine. They are all embedded into a single video file. The trick for Edius is assigning specific audio tracks to specific audio channels.

I started to get confused awhile ago with "channels." A channel, in most cases, is a single audio feed/plug. So on the XL1S (which I use) you have 4 channels of audio to work with, not 2 like David first asked. Canon just calls channels 1 and 2 "ST1", and channels 3 and 4 "ST2." Just wanted to point that out, because software and cameras might call the same things different names.

I use a FireStore FS-4 myself, and have YET to get all four audio channels pulled from it. I use a wireless mic on channel 3 all the time when recording to the FS-4. According to the tech docs, it'll only record 4 channels when using RawDV format, which my editors can't read (Adobe Premiere Pro, Canopus Edius and Vegas 6)... so I have to convert it... which always loses channels 3 and 4 for me. Any help in that area for me would be great. It seems clumsy and non-tech to have to pull out separate audio channels into separate wave files... NLE isn't a new technology.

-Michael

Dan Euritt · April 6th, 2006, 05:26 PM

edius does not import all 4 audio channels correctly, as you mentioned... so it's not a solution for anything.

all 4 audio channels will be recorded to the dv tape regardless of what format you use to capture your footage to the hard drive with, and i suspect that the data for all 4 audio channels is always recorded to the fs-4 as well, because it's an exact firewire copy of the data that is on the tape.

if you look at the microsoft type 1 vs. type 2 avi standards, you'll see that the type 2 avi spec includes 4 channels of audio... it's just that no editing software will recognize 'em.

i use rawdv files with vegas5 all the time, so rawdv will work with your vegas6 editor... but you can't split out the second pair of audio channels, even tho you can hear all 4 audio channels of a rawdv file playing back all at once, in players like quicktime.

firestore sells software that will split out the second pair of audio channels from a rawdv file, but it's a seperate conversion... which isn't all that bad, because even with two conversions, you are always going from hard drive to hard drive, so the overall time is still a lot less than what it would be if you were simply capturing from tape in real time.

this isn't just a fs-4 problem, it's really an issue of the editing software failing to fully support things like the type 2 avi spec.

March 6th, 2006, 12:20 AM	#1
David S. White New Boot Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: New Orleans, LA Posts: 7	NLE to import 4 channels? I'm looking for an NLE setup that imports all 4 channels of audio. Current setup: Canon XL1s Vegas Video 4.0 I've just started doing weddings and recently recorded one where I ran the canon mic to Channel 1 and then ran wireless (Azden Dual Channel) to Channel 2 left/right. I thought everything was groovy until I got to import it all in and noticed that I was only getting 2 channels as a mix of ST1 and ST2. Not really acceptable. I did download Scenalyzer. It's cheap and does the job... but still only records ST2 to one .wav file that I can't really split to well... so... before I make the $40 plunge, I was wondering if there is anything out there that is better all around than that... specifically, I'm curious about Vegas 5. Anyone? Thanks. -David

April 5th, 2006, 04:58 AM	#9
Michael W. Niece Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Georgia Posts: 65	NLE to import 4 channels? I use Edius from Canopus, and it'll import all 4 channels just fine. They are all embedded into a single video file. The trick for Edius is assigning specific audio tracks to specific audio channels. I started to get confused awhile ago with "channels." A channel, in most cases, is a single audio feed/plug. So on the XL1S (which I use) you have 4 channels of audio to work with, not 2 like David first asked. Canon just calls channels 1 and 2 "ST1", and channels 3 and 4 "ST2." Just wanted to point that out, because software and cameras might call the same things different names. I use a FireStore FS-4 myself, and have YET to get all four audio channels pulled from it. I use a wireless mic on channel 3 all the time when recording to the FS-4. According to the tech docs, it'll only record 4 channels when using RawDV format, which my editors can't read (Adobe Premiere Pro, Canopus Edius and Vegas 6)... so I have to convert it... which always loses channels 3 and 4 for me. Any help in that area for me would be great. It seems clumsy and non-tech to have to pull out separate audio channels into separate wave files... NLE isn't a new technology. -Michael

March 6th, 2006, 10:02 AM	#2
Bill Zens Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Kirkland, WA Posts: 191	I work in Liquid Edition, and it imports four channels as a natural part of the capturing environment, and is not an issue. You'll capture it just fine with Liquid. Bill

March 7th, 2006, 06:25 PM	#8
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	it puts channels 3/4 in one wave file, so you'd have to split 3/4 up with your editor, if you need that capability. i believe that there is a free 30 day demo with scenalyzer, so you can try it before you buy... it's a great product! on a totally irrelevant side note, if you are going to be using all 4 audio tracks that were captured with the firestore fs-4, and you don't want to use tape, you'll need a seperate application to bring those 3/4 channels into your editor... the last time i looked, scenalyzer would not pull 3/4 audio channels from a digital dv file, it only pulls 'em off of tape... neither would any software editor on the market, tho.

April 6th, 2006, 05:26 PM	#10
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	edius does not import all 4 audio channels correctly, as you mentioned... so it's not a solution for anything. all 4 audio channels will be recorded to the dv tape regardless of what format you use to capture your footage to the hard drive with, and i suspect that the data for all 4 audio channels is always recorded to the fs-4 as well, because it's an exact firewire copy of the data that is on the tape. if you look at the microsoft type 1 vs. type 2 avi standards, you'll see that the type 2 avi spec includes 4 channels of audio... it's just that no editing software will recognize 'em. i use rawdv files with vegas5 all the time, so rawdv will work with your vegas6 editor... but you can't split out the second pair of audio channels, even tho you can hear all 4 audio channels of a rawdv file playing back all at once, in players like quicktime. firestore sells software that will split out the second pair of audio channels from a rawdv file, but it's a seperate conversion... which isn't all that bad, because even with two conversions, you are always going from hard drive to hard drive, so the overall time is still a lot less than what it would be if you were simply capturing from tape in real time. this isn't just a fs-4 problem, it's really an issue of the editing software failing to fully support things like the type 2 avi spec.