Neo Scene audio synch loss on 5D2 footage... help?

[Dylan Couper]

Love Neo Scene, and have used it happily for my 5D2 footage. Until now, I've only been shooting 30 second clips, or clips where I don't need the sound. Today is the first time I've started converting 5+ minute long clips. By the 3 minute mark, the sound is definitely off. By the 5 minute mark, the sound is at least a 1/2 second ahead of the picture.

Tried it in Low/Med/High quality, and also with the 3 different frame output options, no difference.

So...

Help? :)

Details:
Neo Scene V1.1.2
WinXP
Vegas Pro 8
Canon 5D markII

[David Newman]

That was fixed months ago. We are on Neo Scene version 1.3.5 now.

[Dylan Couper]

I take a few months off to move and travel... AND YOU RELEASE NEW VERSIONS WITHOUT ME?

Sniff...

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J/K... I forgot how fast you actually fix and update stuff, I should have checked the Cineform site first. :)

[Chris Barcellos]

Hey Dylan, there is a whole new world of 5D out there, check out the Magic Lantern thread and did you catch Canon upgrade of firmware to include manual at beginning of June ?.

[Dylan Couper]

Originally Posted by David Newman

That was fixed months ago. We are on Neo Scene version 1.3.5 now.

Uh oh.... I did the update and while it's much better, the sound is still off for sure after the 5 minute mark, probably less that a 1/4 second, but still off. I checked the originals to make sure it wasnt them.

Thoughts on this?


Chris, I'm still getting up to speed on the Magic Lantern, but will have it soon!

[David Newman]

Make sure you are running 29.97 timeline, not 30.0p. With the number of 5D users we have, we know this has been solved.

[Dylan Couper]

So, to make sure I'm not insane and it isn't a timeline/framerate issue, I dropped the following three clips on the timeline:

1: The original clip, straight from the camera.
2: The Cineform render of the same clip.
3: The Zoom H4n audio of the same scene, synched to sound.

The original is 5:27:24
The Cineform audio is 19 frames behind at this point. The weird thing, is that the video is behind too... but by 8 frames, so neither the audio, nor the video, synch with the original.
The Zoom audio is in synch with the original.

I did download v1.3.5, and when I load it, it says v1.3.5... is there any chance it could still be loading my old version? Though I thought it was better after the update, it doesn't look like the problem has changed.

I appreciate the help (and patience, because it's probably something really simple that I'm doing wrong. :) )

[Chris Barcellos]

Dylan:

Did you unistall the old version first ? You are supposed to deintsatall and then install the new version. Your system will keep the registration information, but you have to completely uninstall the old version. This is so too, for any other version of Cineform like Neo HDV. If I ever want to reinstall my version of NeoHDV, I still can, but you cannot have toth installed at same time.

[David Newman]

Did you reconvert you source? The MOV source and the new AVI master are not supposed to match exactly, as the camera does the weird 30.0p (which is basically wrong) and we fix that and remodulate to 29.97, fixing the audio to match. This was all discussed several months ago. New converts will be 0.1% slower so that standard export don't have frame blends (which happens for many using 30.0 to 29.97 export formats like BlurRay, DVD, etc.) If you start with fresh 5D source convert those, the converted video and audio will be in sync and at a standard frame rate of 29.97.

[Dylan Couper]

Chris, good suggestion. I uninstalled NeoScene and reinstalled. No difference.

David, I re-rendered new .avis from the original .movs. After the five minute clip, the Cineform audio is still 19 frames behind the master audio track, and also still looks a few frames out of synch with itself. I'm going to set the camera to record a 10 minutes clip with a/v synch marks, and retest this. Will report back.

[David Newman]

You need to talk to support, if you are sync issue in the AVI (not against the MOV as that is at a different frame rate.) However, if you master audio track was a secondary source, that is something else entirely, than you need Neo HD. Neo Scene is for hobbiest, where is 29.97 defaults are hardwired, not an issue (a big help really), unless you are doing dual system sound (typically not a hobbiest thing.) Rememeber 30 and 29.97 are different frame rate, your can't be sync sources with different clocks. In Neo HD and Prospect HD you choose the speed-up or down you need to match sources.

[Dylan Couper]

Hey David
I shot a test clip on the 5D2, 10 minutes long, with synch points along the way.
By the 10 minute mark, the Cineform footage was 1/2 second out of synch with itself, with the video faster than the audio. For example, a slate clap would happen, then roughly 15 frames later the sound would hit. Regardless of my 5D2 source material (which is in synch until the end), this shouldn't happen, right?

Plus it is still a full second behind both the native 5D2 mov and the source audio recording (which is still in synch with the source .mov even at the end)

Thanks again for the help!


(also, Neo HD is out of the budget, so if I can't figure out what's wrong, it's back to synching it all by hand)

[Chris Barcellos]

I will run a test right now. I have not been doing a lot of narrative stuff lately, so I will check your results Dylan with my gear and a 5 minute clip.

[Dylan Couper]

Cool, thanks Chris!

[Chris Barcellos]

David:

Dylan is right. We are not synching again. I am about 9 frames off at 5:44 of a six minute or so clip. At least in Vegas 9.

The attached Snipping of the time line show how project is set up. The time indicator is at point of clapper coming together. Note the sound is nine frames down about. I assume those are frame ticks.

Edit: After posting, I checked in at Vegas 8, same issues there.