CineForm RT engine in FCP

David Taylor · February 14th, 2010, 05:36 PM

Happy Valentines Day!

We're enthused to announce that we now have a real-time engine for Final Cut Pro as part of all CineForm "Neo" Mac products: Scene/HD/4K/3D. The RT engine allows multiple-stream playback including through all normal Apple transitions, filters, and effects that you would expect with ProRes. The sub-message is: "no rendering".

We have implemented the engine as an option within the CineForm System Preferences, so you can turn the engine ON or OFF. OFF is the default mode. To turn the RT engine ON do the following after installing the appropriate Neo product:

1. Open the CineForm System Prefs pane
2. Click on the Performance tab
3. Check the box for the RT Enabler. (Deselect it to turn the RT engine OFF).

We consider this a Beta Release for now. Following are the links:

Neo Scene: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...b31-100214.zip
NeoHD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip
Neo4K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip
Neo3D: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip

The only issue we are currently aware of is that Neo3D will not play out dual-link stereo when the RT engine is enabled. We're still looking into this. For dual-link stereo you will need to disable the RT engine.

Comments please!

David Taylor · February 15th, 2010, 10:05 AM

One final set of instructions:

When FCP starts with the CineForm RT engine, it will display a dialog indicating that a non-standard enabler is found and that some parts of the sequence may be marked in blue. This is simply informational and you can click OK.

In the sequence select "Unlimited RT", "Dynamic" video quality, and deselect "Multiclip Playback" (unless you are using it.)

Craig Davidson · February 15th, 2010, 10:31 AM

You may want to experiment with the settings under the RT tab. "Dynamic" is supposed to change the decode resolution as needed. You can also select "High" or "Medium". I have not seen "Low" make any difference. "Medium" decodes at a lower resolution and then scales up for display.

You should also experiment with the Cinema Desktop settings, if you are using Cinema Desktop.

Gary Bettan · February 15th, 2010, 11:19 AM

Dave,

This is very exciting news. I hope you guys will take the time to put some screenshots and more info about the Cineform real-time FCP engine on your website. It's another big marketing/ sales feature.

Gary
Videoguys.com

Leo Baker · February 15th, 2010, 12:04 PM

Hello David,

Will this work with Final Cut pro Studio 2.0, which was released before the latest version 3 currently?

Thanks,

Leo

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Taylor

Happy Valentines Day!

We're enthused to announce that we now have a real-time engine for Final Cut Pro as part of all CineForm "Neo" Mac products: Scene/HD/4K/3D. The RT engine allows multiple-stream playback including through all normal Apple transitions, filters, and effects that you would expect with ProRes. The sub-message is: "no rendering".

We have implemented the engine as an option within the CineForm System Preferences, so you can turn the engine ON or OFF. OFF is the default mode. To turn the RT engine ON do the following after installing the appropriate Neo product:

1. Open the CineForm System Prefs pane
2. Click on the Performance tab
3. Check the box for the RT Enabler. (Deselect it to turn the RT engine OFF).

We consider this a Beta Release for now. Following are the links:

Neo Scene: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...b31-100214.zip
NeoHD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip
Neo4K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip
Neo3D: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip

The only issue we are currently aware of is that Neo3D will not play out dual-link stereo when the RT engine is enabled. We're still looking into this. For dual-link stereo you will need to disable the RT engine.

Comments please!

David Taylor · February 15th, 2010, 12:23 PM

Good question Leo. We have not tested with FCS2. At this point I think the best thing to do is for you to test it and let us know.

Craig Davidson · February 15th, 2010, 02:59 PM

It does work with FCS 2 (Final Cut 6.0.5).

Craig Davidson · February 15th, 2010, 03:04 PM

A note if you are using this for 3D.

The RT tab allows you to select "Dynamic", "High", "Medium" and "Low" for the video quality. As far as we can tell on our systems, the only difference we have seen is "High" and "Medium". "Dynamic" should switch between them as needed. High requests a full resolution decode. Medium requests a half resolution decode.

If you have a monitor that operates in fields mode, you must set the video quality to "High". A decode to medium, and then a scaling of the image by either FCP or the video card, does not work for a fields mode monitor.

It should still work if you have a monitor that works in either side-by-side, or over/under.

David Taylor · February 17th, 2010, 06:06 PM

We have broadened the Beta test for our RT engine for FCP. The link is now available in all Neo-Mac Trial or Update downloads. We also posted an updated build to the links above.

To get the new version go to our downloads page: www.cineform.com/downloads.aspx and request the specific Neo-Mac product you're interested in.

Even if you have tried Neo-Mac in the past the new version provides a new 15-day trial evaluation with this build.

Kaspar Kallas · February 20th, 2010, 08:51 AM

Hi

few problems (I have dated the 15days trial so I am out):
1st Firstlight seems to be stuck in Anaglyph, does not matter what I set, in the menu of first-light it is still anaglyph no way to get out of this.

2nd it breaks speedgrade, when you have this codec installed the speedgrade will not be able to deal with cineform anymore....

EDIT:both items seem to be resolved when uninstalling, rebooting and re-installing - glitch in the matrix I guess....

Thank You
-Kaspar

Kaspar Kallas · February 23rd, 2010, 03:16 PM

Hi

Tested the RT engine in FCP Studio 3 it does work but I got mixed results.
As expected the RT effects are limited to apple supported frame sizes (SD,HD,2048x1152) yet if I drop the 2048x1080 or 2048x856 from SI2K on timeline it will show Unlimited RT and will work without rendering but it drops frame on my i7 3Ghz (4cores, 8 with hyperthreading).
In 2048x1152@24 I get about 160% CPU when playing back cineform file, when it will get to dissolve it will go up to 280% not more.

Still this is like second christmas in 2 months....
Thank all of You in Cineform for this and I hope it gets optimized and as always the computers will get faster...
-Kaspar

Kaspar Kallas · February 28th, 2010, 04:24 AM

Hi

Now I have been playing with this few days and I cannot get over it, this is religious experience for doing 3d. I had to go on-set one day without my own tools and make some previews for side-by-side monitor in compositing software - it felt like being handicapped, why do I have to wait to see if it works while neo3d you just make FCP loop play and adjust the parameters on wave - just like that! It is like being back in 2004 when my first BMD card arrived and I could do uncompressed 10bit video and in about 6 months the FCP realtime engine support came along - there really is no way of going back to rendering/compositing for working with 3d.

3 post in a row - I must impressed out of my mind....
THANK YOU
-Kaspar

February 14th, 2010, 05:36 PM	#1
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	CineForm RT engine in FCP - BETA release Happy Valentines Day! We're enthused to announce that we now have a real-time engine for Final Cut Pro as part of all CineForm "Neo" Mac products: Scene/HD/4K/3D. The RT engine allows multiple-stream playback including through all normal Apple transitions, filters, and effects that you would expect with ProRes. The sub-message is: "no rendering". We have implemented the engine as an option within the CineForm System Preferences, so you can turn the engine ON or OFF. OFF is the default mode. To turn the RT engine ON do the following after installing the appropriate Neo product: 1. Open the CineForm System Prefs pane 2. Click on the Performance tab 3. Check the box for the RT Enabler. (Deselect it to turn the RT engine OFF). We consider this a Beta Release for now. Following are the links: Neo Scene: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...b31-100214.zip NeoHD: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip Neo4K: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip Neo3D: http://www.cineform.com/downloads/Ne...119-100214.zip The only issue we are currently aware of is that Neo3D will not play out dual-link stereo when the RT engine is enabled. We're still looking into this. For dual-link stereo you will need to disable the RT engine. Comments please!

February 15th, 2010, 11:19 AM	#4
Gary Bettan Sponsor: Electronic Mailbox Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Glen Cove, NY Posts: 757	Dave, This is very exciting news. I hope you guys will take the time to put some screenshots and more info about the Cineform real-time FCP engine on your website. It's another big marketing/ sales feature. Gary Videoguys.com __________________ Check out http://www.videoguys.com 800 323-2325 We are the video editing and live video production experts! DV InfoNet members save 5%! Use Coupon Code DVINFO5OFF

February 20th, 2010, 08:51 AM	#10
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Hi few problems (I have dated the 15days trial so I am out): 1st Firstlight seems to be stuck in Anaglyph, does not matter what I set, in the menu of first-light it is still anaglyph no way to get out of this. 2nd it breaks speedgrade, when you have this codec installed the speedgrade will not be able to deal with cineform anymore.... EDIT:both items seem to be resolved when uninstalling, rebooting and re-installing - glitch in the matrix I guess.... Thank You -Kaspar Last edited by Kaspar Kallas; February 20th, 2010 at 11:17 AM.

February 15th, 2010, 10:05 AM	#2
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	One final set of instructions: When FCP starts with the CineForm RT engine, it will display a dialog indicating that a non-standard enabler is found and that some parts of the sequence may be marked in blue. This is simply informational and you can click OK. In the sequence select "Unlimited RT", "Dynamic" video quality, and deselect "Multiclip Playback" (unless you are using it.)

February 15th, 2010, 10:31 AM	#3
Craig Davidson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 142	You may want to experiment with the settings under the RT tab. "Dynamic" is supposed to change the decode resolution as needed. You can also select "High" or "Medium". I have not seen "Low" make any difference. "Medium" decodes at a lower resolution and then scales up for display. You should also experiment with the Cinema Desktop settings, if you are using Cinema Desktop.

February 15th, 2010, 12:23 PM	#6
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Good question Leo. We have not tested with FCS2. At this point I think the best thing to do is for you to test it and let us know.

February 15th, 2010, 02:59 PM	#7
Craig Davidson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 142	It does work with FCS 2 (Final Cut 6.0.5).

February 15th, 2010, 03:04 PM	#8
Craig Davidson Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 142	A note if you are using this for 3D. The RT tab allows you to select "Dynamic", "High", "Medium" and "Low" for the video quality. As far as we can tell on our systems, the only difference we have seen is "High" and "Medium". "Dynamic" should switch between them as needed. High requests a full resolution decode. Medium requests a half resolution decode. If you have a monitor that operates in fields mode, you must set the video quality to "High". A decode to medium, and then a scaling of the image by either FCP or the video card, does not work for a fields mode monitor. It should still work if you have a monitor that works in either side-by-side, or over/under.

February 17th, 2010, 06:06 PM	#9
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	We have broadened the Beta test for our RT engine for FCP. The link is now available in all Neo-Mac Trial or Update downloads. We also posted an updated build to the links above. To get the new version go to our downloads page: www.cineform.com/downloads.aspx and request the specific Neo-Mac product you're interested in. Even if you have tried Neo-Mac in the past the new version provides a new 15-day trial evaluation with this build.

February 23rd, 2010, 03:16 PM	#11
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Hi Tested the RT engine in FCP Studio 3 it does work but I got mixed results. As expected the RT effects are limited to apple supported frame sizes (SD,HD,2048x1152) yet if I drop the 2048x1080 or 2048x856 from SI2K on timeline it will show Unlimited RT and will work without rendering but it drops frame on my i7 3Ghz (4cores, 8 with hyperthreading). In 2048x1152@24 I get about 160% CPU when playing back cineform file, when it will get to dissolve it will go up to 280% not more. Still this is like second christmas in 2 months.... Thank all of You in Cineform for this and I hope it gets optimized and as always the computers will get faster... -Kaspar

February 28th, 2010, 04:24 AM	#12
Kaspar Kallas Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Estonia Posts: 142	Hi Now I have been playing with this few days and I cannot get over it, this is religious experience for doing 3d. I had to go on-set one day without my own tools and make some previews for side-by-side monitor in compositing software - it felt like being handicapped, why do I have to wait to see if it works while neo3d you just make FCP loop play and adjust the parameters on wave - just like that! It is like being back in 2004 when my first BMD card arrived and I could do uncompressed 10bit video and in about 6 months the FCP realtime engine support came along - there really is no way of going back to rendering/compositing for working with 3d. 3 post in a row - I must impressed out of my mind.... THANK YOU -Kaspar