what size should the video be? at DVinfo.net

Jim Rog · November 22nd, 2005, 09:08 PM

Hello

Why is it that CineForm puts all the files into individual files when capturing the video? is there any way to capture the whole video as one file in HDLink? Also what should the size be for 21 mins of video? Mine has turned out to be just under 14GB is this correct? is there any way you can change the settings in CineForm HDLink so it takes up less space?

Steven Gotz · November 22nd, 2005, 10:39 PM

Quote:

Why is it that CineForm puts all the files into individual files when capturing the video?

Because you told it to "scene detect" which is a good idea, otherwise the audio loses sync with the video when you try to capture it all at once.

Quote:

Also what should the size be for 21 mins of video? Mine has turned out to be just under 14GB is this correct? is there any way you can change the settings in CineForm HDLink so it takes up less space?

The medium setting takes about 40GB per hour.

If you can't handle large files, you should not be editing HDV. I am sorry, but HDV requires massive storage and all the power of a PC you can through at it.

Dave Campbell · December 3rd, 2005, 06:26 PM

Steven, I tried scene detect once on an hour tape. The darn thing made 200 files so I said forget that. Now, David, is their lip sync issues with the cineform s/w as one big file capture? Man, I hope not since I am putting in 4 hours worth of tapes in single huge files for the 5th time.

dave

David Newman · December 4th, 2005, 08:48 PM

There are sync issues with HDV if you don't break the scenes. The MPEG scene break make different length of video and audio at the boundary points. Using scene breaking solves this.

Dave Campbell · December 5th, 2005, 07:59 AM

Wow, where is this documented? I keep finding more and more issues with HDV that do not seem to be well known from all the stuff I have been reading.

So, what are the options? When I did scene break, it chopped my video into WAY to many segments. Now, if it cut them everytime I stopped and started the camera, that may be okay.

So, again, am sitting here pretty shocked with all this stuff. With DV, I just edited. I have already pulled in 4 hours of video 5 times thinking I knew the best way to edit.

So, since scene break does not work well in my experience, David, how do you suggest this sync issue is resolved? Can one do 20 minutes of video via in/out points?

I have to be honest that I have more than once thought that HDV is not worth the hassle. How is gets soft on pans is something that just about has driven me back to DV.

So, is there any format that does not have all these little corner case issues?

Dave

David Newman · December 5th, 2005, 11:03 AM

You have others issues if the scene breaks are occuring randomly. The scene breaking code works well, most customers love it, so I was surprised at you comments. I don't know the details for the solution, so file a trouble ticket on the support site so that the tech guys can advise you.

Dave Campbell · December 5th, 2005, 12:08 PM

Okay, will file a ticket.
My first comment is the audio sync issue. I had never heard of this before.

Now, since I never had used scene detection, I had no idea what to expect.
I did not look that closely at the breaks, but when I saw a 1 hour tape was heading over 200 clips, I said heck this that.

Dave

Dave Campbell · December 5th, 2005, 03:27 PM

Steven, exactly how does one verify if one has the audio sync issue? Should I just go to the end of my 1 hour avi capture, watch on the timeline, and see if I notice an audio sync issue?

Dave

Dave Campbell · December 5th, 2005, 06:38 PM

Well, I went back and looked at my files I pulled in and yes, by the end they have audio sync issues. Amazing.

So, with all the new settings that I have been trying, I am now for the 6th time trying to bring the clips in with scene detect on and see how many files it makes. So far it seems on one tape to be working better.

Dave

Steven Gotz · December 6th, 2005, 10:37 PM

Yes, you could get hundreds of files. But, so what? Really. Does it matter?

If the software detects that you shoot a bunch of 10 second clips, is that bad?

Now, if in fact you are shooting continuously and it is not detecting that, then you should work with the Cineform folks for sure.

For me, the scene detect seems to get me to the right spot vi=rtually every time, so it never mattered to me. It gives me a chance to review each clip, and then name the clips before I use them. I still use a numbering system, but I add additional text to the names quite often.

Dave Campbell · December 6th, 2005, 10:57 PM

Steven, if one does 10 second clips, I agree. I do not know what happened the first time I tried, because I have redid them all again, and on the first tape, each break was a start record spot, and it can not do any better than that.

Thanks

Dave

Steven Gotz · December 7th, 2005, 09:45 AM

Glad to hear that you got it working.

Marc Colemont · December 9th, 2005, 04:14 AM

Dave, I couldn't work anymore without scene detection.
It makes life so easy during editing.
- Each scene you shot is nicely made as a file. So no time to waist finding in the in/out points.
- in premiere as soon as you used the clip it is marked. So no accedental double use of a scene unless you want.
- it is easy that way quickly remove bad scenes, and to be able to filter that way all your scenes.
- you can group scenes in catagories. so all close-ups, wide shots etc are nicely available when I edit video, without the need to look in a very long file for the right scene all the time.

Dave Campbell · December 9th, 2005, 08:23 AM

Marc, now that I have used it again, I totally agree with you!
Its just that this audio problem is not well known. I just told a friend of mine last night who does lots of editing and he had never read about the issue. I have never read about it in any editing magazine I get. Is this an industry secret?

This is what makes the internet forums so great. The ability to share knowledge!!

Dave

Pierre Barberis · December 11th, 2005, 12:50 PM

I posted this as a wish a few versions ago. And you at Cineform answered that it was a sound suggestion.

To day you have only one choice, if you want do to it one pass: either you split AVIs AND M2Ts or NONE of them. Very often what makes sense is to capture the M2Ts as a whole And Split scenes for the CFHD AVIs only. Much easier to work with, much easier to archive, etc...

This would require FOUR lines of code at most and ONE extra control in the preferences panel. Please, do it !!!

Thanks

November 22nd, 2005, 09:08 PM	#1
Jim Rog Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: PAL Zone Posts: 188	what size should the video be? Hello Why is it that CineForm puts all the files into individual files when capturing the video? is there any way to capture the whole video as one file in HDLink? Also what should the size be for 21 mins of video? Mine has turned out to be just under 14GB is this correct? is there any way you can change the settings in CineForm HDLink so it takes up less space?

December 4th, 2005, 08:48 PM	#4
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	There are sync issues with HDV if you don't break the scenes. The MPEG scene break make different length of video and audio at the boundary points. Using scene breaking solves this. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 5th, 2005, 11:03 AM	#6
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	You have others issues if the scene breaks are occuring randomly. The scene breaking code works well, most customers love it, so I was surprised at you comments. I don't know the details for the solution, so file a trouble ticket on the support site so that the tech guys can advise you. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 6th, 2005, 10:37 PM	#10
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Yes, you could get hundreds of files. But, so what? Really. Does it matter? If the software detects that you shoot a bunch of 10 second clips, is that bad? Now, if in fact you are shooting continuously and it is not detecting that, then you should work with the Cineform folks for sure. For me, the scene detect seems to get me to the right spot vi=rtually every time, so it never mattered to me. It gives me a chance to review each clip, and then name the clips before I use them. I still use a numbering system, but I add additional text to the names quite often. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 7th, 2005, 09:45 AM	#12
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Glad to hear that you got it working. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 3rd, 2005, 06:26 PM	#3
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Steven, I tried scene detect once on an hour tape. The darn thing made 200 files so I said forget that. Now, David, is their lip sync issues with the cineform s/w as one big file capture? Man, I hope not since I am putting in 4 hours worth of tapes in single huge files for the 5th time. dave

December 5th, 2005, 07:59 AM	#5
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Wow, where is this documented? I keep finding more and more issues with HDV that do not seem to be well known from all the stuff I have been reading. So, what are the options? When I did scene break, it chopped my video into WAY to many segments. Now, if it cut them everytime I stopped and started the camera, that may be okay. So, again, am sitting here pretty shocked with all this stuff. With DV, I just edited. I have already pulled in 4 hours of video 5 times thinking I knew the best way to edit. So, since scene break does not work well in my experience, David, how do you suggest this sync issue is resolved? Can one do 20 minutes of video via in/out points? I have to be honest that I have more than once thought that HDV is not worth the hassle. How is gets soft on pans is something that just about has driven me back to DV. So, is there any format that does not have all these little corner case issues? Dave

December 5th, 2005, 12:08 PM	#7
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Okay, will file a ticket. My first comment is the audio sync issue. I had never heard of this before. Now, since I never had used scene detection, I had no idea what to expect. I did not look that closely at the breaks, but when I saw a 1 hour tape was heading over 200 clips, I said heck this that. Dave

December 5th, 2005, 03:27 PM	#8
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Steven, exactly how does one verify if one has the audio sync issue? Should I just go to the end of my 1 hour avi capture, watch on the timeline, and see if I notice an audio sync issue? Dave

December 5th, 2005, 06:38 PM	#9
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Well, I went back and looked at my files I pulled in and yes, by the end they have audio sync issues. Amazing. So, with all the new settings that I have been trying, I am now for the 6th time trying to bring the clips in with scene detect on and see how many files it makes. So far it seems on one tape to be working better. Dave

December 6th, 2005, 10:57 PM	#11
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Steven, if one does 10 second clips, I agree. I do not know what happened the first time I tried, because I have redid them all again, and on the first tape, each break was a start record spot, and it can not do any better than that. Thanks Dave

December 9th, 2005, 04:14 AM	#13
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Dave, I couldn't work anymore without scene detection. It makes life so easy during editing. - Each scene you shot is nicely made as a file. So no time to waist finding in the in/out points. - in premiere as soon as you used the clip it is marked. So no accedental double use of a scene unless you want. - it is easy that way quickly remove bad scenes, and to be able to filter that way all your scenes. - you can group scenes in catagories. so all close-ups, wide shots etc are nicely available when I edit video, without the need to look in a very long file for the right scene all the time.

December 9th, 2005, 08:23 AM	#14
Dave Campbell Major Player Join Date: Aug 2003 Posts: 568	Marc, now that I have used it again, I totally agree with you! Its just that this audio problem is not well known. I just told a friend of mine last night who does lots of editing and he had never read about the issue. I have never read about it in any editing magazine I get. Is this an industry secret? This is what makes the internet forums so great. The ability to share knowledge!! Dave

December 11th, 2005, 12:50 PM	#15
Pierre Barberis Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: MANILA Philippines Posts: 117	David, Please, de-couple "Split scenes" for M2Ts and AVIs I posted this as a wish a few versions ago. And you at Cineform answered that it was a sound suggestion. To day you have only one choice, if you want do to it one pass: either you split AVIs AND M2Ts or NONE of them. Very often what makes sense is to capture the M2Ts as a whole And Split scenes for the CFHD AVIs only. Much easier to work with, much easier to archive, etc... This would require FOUR lines of code at most and ONE extra control in the preferences panel. Please, do it !!! Thanks