CineForm Artifacts at DVinfo.net

Josh Wigginton · December 20th, 2006, 12:20 PM

Hello,

I have posed this question to Cineform support and they are very unresposive, so I am posting it here hoping for better luck.

I am capturing video using HDlink and the video is very garbled w/ a lot of artifacts. I am using a HDR-HC3 connected via FireWire.

If I capture as M2T, it garbled or if I have it covert. So it's getting messed up in the capture process, not the covert.

If I used Vegas, or HDVSplit the captures are fine. Same computer, camera, FW cable, same FW port. No problem. But I want to use Cineform to capture and convert to intermediate.

Here is an example of the video that is captured. It's in 50+ percent of the frames. Random placement, sometimes more or less.

You can preview a frame grab here

http://www.smartdisk.com/smdkmktg/Te...m_Captures.jpg

Any help would be great. I'm really disappointed in CineForm support. I started my ticket on 12-16, didn't get a response till 12-18, then I replied on 12-18, and still no response back.

Stinks for an expensive program, I'm getting such poor support. Honestly I'm evaluating a purchase, and so far not happy w/ the product. But hopefully I can get this bug worked out.

I'm using the latest version of CineForm Aspect HD, as I edit mostly in Premiere.

Josh

David Newman · December 20th, 2006, 02:21 PM

Suggest you give support a chance. 12-16 was a Saturday, we are a small company and try to not work on the weekend. You PC is suffering from MPEG packet loss as the firewire card is not buffering and/or the CPU is not keeping up as it busy encoding (for a real-time conversion.) Support should be able to help you with this.

Steven Gotz · December 20th, 2006, 02:36 PM

Are you trying to just capture the M2T and not convert all at once? I found problems with that on my old PC. With a top-of-the-line PC I can do both.

If your PC is underpowerd you will have problems capturing and converting in one step.

By the way, I use HDVSplit to capture, then I throw out the garbage and only convert what I plan on using.

Josh Wigginton · December 20th, 2006, 04:20 PM

I am running a new computer, Core 2 Duo @ 2.8Ghz w/ 2GB DDR2, 7200 SATA drives.

I originally tried the programs defaults which captures and converts automatically. Per thier troublehsooting I tried just to capture as M2T. Both cases I get the artifacts and garbled video.

I guess I could capture w/ HDVSplit and then covert, but this adds another program to my work flow.

The only thing I could think it could be would be some type of compatibility issue w/ the FW card. It's not the most expensive card, but I've had no dropped frames issues in my new PC.

Steven Gotz · December 20th, 2006, 06:21 PM

Well, I have never seen a problem capturing the M2T all by itself. There must be a bottleneck or incompatibility somewhere, but I think we would have seen other complaints here if it were more common. And you are the first to complain about this.

Sorry, but I am out of ideas.

Josh Wigginton · December 22nd, 2006, 01:03 PM

It's now 12-22 and still no further response from Cineform support. I guess they are on early Christmas break. :(

I would believe that now a days most people expect a 24hr turn around time in support and customer service emails/call-backs etc., especially in a market that deals w/ mostly professionals, you pay top $$$, and not your average-joe consumer.

I REALLY wish I had some alternate solutions to try other than Cineform. This would aid in troubleshooting and also create some marketing competition which is always a good thing.

Josh

Steven Gotz · December 22nd, 2006, 01:06 PM

As I said, I can't imagine what the trouble might be. In the meantime, capture with HDVSplit and then convert what you plan on using. I am sure they will get back to you if they can recreate the problem.

Josh Wigginton · December 22nd, 2006, 01:11 PM

Well I'm evaluating the software for purchase. I'm not going to pay $500.00 for the software before I get it to work properly. But in all my projects I will be editing in HDV to I really enjoy the performance gain of the codec.

Can you just purchase the codec and use a program like ProCoder to encode to Cineform AVI? I already own Procoder to simply re-encode and batch encode to differnt codecs.

Steven Gotz · December 22nd, 2006, 01:21 PM

Aspect HD is more than just a codec. It allows for a realtime editing experience. And if you are just having capture problems, I would not let that hold you back.

Giroud Francois · December 22nd, 2006, 01:32 PM

quote "I am running a new computer, Core 2 Duo @ 2.8Ghz w/ 2GB DDR2, 7200 SATA drives"

I have seen fabulous hardware running like crappy pc because bad installation (antivirus, firewall, webshot, bad video drivers, virus, buggy chipset, poorly installed pci card with interrupt conflict etc...).
that certainly is the cause of your problem. You should ask a specialist to review your PC.

just for info, pres ctrl+alt+del and go to task manager, then selet the process tab.
look at the bottom of this windows and tell us how many process you are running, just after boot. (mine runs 13 processes, is a 2.6 Ghz runinng at 3.2 ,is rock solid and fast like hell)
I can capture and convert cineform on the fly at the same time i listen mp3 and surf the web.

Josh Wigginton · December 22nd, 2006, 01:53 PM

I wish that was the problem. I am an experienced computer tech and running w/ all non-ms serivces and startup items disabled problem still exists.
I have a very clean install of XP Pro SP2.

I don't argue that there is a conflict somewhere, but all other capture programs have no problems capturing from this camera, or FW card. Only CineForm capture.

And on a side note -
Virus, Come on...No virus would cause a capture problem specific to one application,
and XP has IRQ Steering, so there are not IRQ conflicts like in the good ol' days of 98, ME, etc.
I am running Adobe certificed Nvidia driver versions, plus from what I understand it's using the CPU to encodue/capture, nothing to do w/ the video card.
Poorly installed PCI card come on? Remember this ONLY happens w/ HDLink's capture.

I guess you're trying to help and that's more than I'm getting from Cineform.
I'm really not trying to rant on them and that is not the purpose of this thread, I REALLY want to get this working.

Giroud Francois · December 22nd, 2006, 03:58 PM

check what chipset you got to run firewire.
TEXAS are ok, VIA are often crappy.
my asus motherboard was delivering unstable performance with the on-board firewire, while have been never disappointed with the one on my PCI soundblaster audigy.
Virus can do anything to your pc, especially making them slow by trying to send tons of mail somewhere (virus and spyware are not really written to be good programs).
Google desktop and antivirus are catastrophic for disk access.
Some drivers like the one for HP usb printer are pain in the ass, running dozen of process in the background.
external USB card readers can be disturbing too.
everything in your PC is sharing interrupt and some PCI bandwith.
Some time you could get USB, gigabit ethernet from motherboard sharing with a PCI slot. just use this PCI slot and everything goes wrong , you don't know why.
Bad power supply can cause strange problem too.

I am in computer support for more than 20 years now and believe me problems always come from a place you would never guess.

David Taylor · December 22nd, 2006, 05:18 PM

Josh, we do sometimes see incompatibilities with a fewFirewire cards. I'm not able right now to articulate which ones, but I'd pull your FW card and see if that helps.

Our tech support guys have now left for the long weekend an will return on Wednesday.

Christo Aaron · December 27th, 2006, 04:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Josh Wigginton

Hello,

I have posed this question to Cineform support and they are very unresposive, so I am posting it here hoping for better luck.

I am capturing video using HDlink and the video is very garbled w/ a lot of artifacts. I am using a HDR-HC3 connected via FireWire.

If I capture as M2T, it garbled or if I have it covert. So it's getting messed up in the capture process, not the covert.

If I used Vegas, or HDVSplit the captures are fine. Same computer, camera, FW cable, same FW port. No problem. But I want to use Cineform to capture and convert to intermediate.

Here is an example of the video that is captured. It's in 50+ percent of the frames. Random placement, sometimes more or less.

You can preview a frame grab here

http://www.smartdisk.com/smdkmktg/Te...m_Captures.jpg

Any help would be great. I'm really disappointed in CineForm support. I started my ticket on 12-16, didn't get a response till 12-18, then I replied on 12-18, and still no response back.

Stinks for an expensive program, I'm getting such poor support. Honestly I'm evaluating a purchase, and so far not happy w/ the product. But hopefully I can get this bug worked out.

I'm using the latest version of CineForm Aspect HD, as I edit mostly in Premiere.

Josh

Hey Josh,
I was lurking your thread, and I wanted to tell you I'm having similar problems with my PC and capture using CineForm with my Canon HV-10. An evaluation is cool, it's a wonder this stuff works at all! I'm going to try using my notebook, different video card, chip, and such. I had captured HDV .mpt files using Sony 6d before the CinForm trial. Now, I still not able to secure a clean convert nor direct convert through the CiniForm Capture auto. I want to thank the forum for their help with this, maybe you (Josh) can post what solution you arrive at? Good Luck to you!
Cheers,
Christo

December 20th, 2006, 12:20 PM	#1
Josh Wigginton New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 10	CineForm Artifacts Hello, I have posed this question to Cineform support and they are very unresposive, so I am posting it here hoping for better luck. I am capturing video using HDlink and the video is very garbled w/ a lot of artifacts. I am using a HDR-HC3 connected via FireWire. If I capture as M2T, it garbled or if I have it covert. So it's getting messed up in the capture process, not the covert. If I used Vegas, or HDVSplit the captures are fine. Same computer, camera, FW cable, same FW port. No problem. But I want to use Cineform to capture and convert to intermediate. Here is an example of the video that is captured. It's in 50+ percent of the frames. Random placement, sometimes more or less. You can preview a frame grab here http://www.smartdisk.com/smdkmktg/Te...m_Captures.jpg Any help would be great. I'm really disappointed in CineForm support. I started my ticket on 12-16, didn't get a response till 12-18, then I replied on 12-18, and still no response back. Stinks for an expensive program, I'm getting such poor support. Honestly I'm evaluating a purchase, and so far not happy w/ the product. But hopefully I can get this bug worked out. I'm using the latest version of CineForm Aspect HD, as I edit mostly in Premiere. Josh

December 20th, 2006, 02:21 PM	#2
David Newman CTO, CineForm Inc. Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Cardiff-by-the-Sea, California Posts: 8,095	Suggest you give support a chance. 12-16 was a Saturday, we are a small company and try to not work on the weekend. You PC is suffering from MPEG packet loss as the firewire card is not buffering and/or the CPU is not keeping up as it busy encoding (for a real-time conversion.) Support should be able to help you with this. __________________ David Newman -- web: www.gopro.com blog: cineform.blogspot.com -- twitter: twitter.com/David_Newman

December 20th, 2006, 02:36 PM	#3
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Are you trying to just capture the M2T and not convert all at once? I found problems with that on my old PC. With a top-of-the-line PC I can do both. If your PC is underpowerd you will have problems capturing and converting in one step. By the way, I use HDVSplit to capture, then I throw out the garbage and only convert what I plan on using. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 20th, 2006, 06:21 PM	#5
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Well, I have never seen a problem capturing the M2T all by itself. There must be a bottleneck or incompatibility somewhere, but I think we would have seen other complaints here if it were more common. And you are the first to complain about this. Sorry, but I am out of ideas. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 22nd, 2006, 01:06 PM	#7
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	As I said, I can't imagine what the trouble might be. In the meantime, capture with HDVSplit and then convert what you plan on using. I am sure they will get back to you if they can recreate the problem. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 20th, 2006, 04:20 PM	#4
Josh Wigginton New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 10	I am running a new computer, Core 2 Duo @ 2.8Ghz w/ 2GB DDR2, 7200 SATA drives. I originally tried the programs defaults which captures and converts automatically. Per thier troublehsooting I tried just to capture as M2T. Both cases I get the artifacts and garbled video. I guess I could capture w/ HDVSplit and then covert, but this adds another program to my work flow. The only thing I could think it could be would be some type of compatibility issue w/ the FW card. It's not the most expensive card, but I've had no dropped frames issues in my new PC.

December 22nd, 2006, 01:03 PM	#6
Josh Wigginton New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 10	It's now 12-22 and still no further response from Cineform support. I guess they are on early Christmas break. :( I would believe that now a days most people expect a 24hr turn around time in support and customer service emails/call-backs etc., especially in a market that deals w/ mostly professionals, you pay top $$$, and not your average-joe consumer. I REALLY wish I had some alternate solutions to try other than Cineform. This would aid in troubleshooting and also create some marketing competition which is always a good thing. Josh

December 22nd, 2006, 01:11 PM	#8
Josh Wigginton New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 10	Well I'm evaluating the software for purchase. I'm not going to pay $500.00 for the software before I get it to work properly. But in all my projects I will be editing in HDV to I really enjoy the performance gain of the codec. Can you just purchase the codec and use a program like ProCoder to encode to Cineform AVI? I already own Procoder to simply re-encode and batch encode to differnt codecs.

December 22nd, 2006, 01:21 PM	#9
Steven Gotz Trustee Join Date: May 2002 Location: Clermont, FL Posts: 1,520	Aspect HD is more than just a codec. It allows for a realtime editing experience. And if you are just having capture problems, I would not let that hold you back. __________________ Steven Gotz http://www.stevengotz.com

December 22nd, 2006, 01:32 PM	#10
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	quote "I am running a new computer, Core 2 Duo @ 2.8Ghz w/ 2GB DDR2, 7200 SATA drives" I have seen fabulous hardware running like crappy pc because bad installation (antivirus, firewall, webshot, bad video drivers, virus, buggy chipset, poorly installed pci card with interrupt conflict etc...). that certainly is the cause of your problem. You should ask a specialist to review your PC. just for info, pres ctrl+alt+del and go to task manager, then selet the process tab. look at the bottom of this windows and tell us how many process you are running, just after boot. (mine runs 13 processes, is a 2.6 Ghz runinng at 3.2 ,is rock solid and fast like hell) I can capture and convert cineform on the fly at the same time i listen mp3 and surf the web.

December 22nd, 2006, 01:53 PM	#11
Josh Wigginton New Boot Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Fort Myers, FL Posts: 10	I wish that was the problem. I am an experienced computer tech and running w/ all non-ms serivces and startup items disabled problem still exists. I have a very clean install of XP Pro SP2. I don't argue that there is a conflict somewhere, but all other capture programs have no problems capturing from this camera, or FW card. Only CineForm capture. And on a side note - Virus, Come on...No virus would cause a capture problem specific to one application, and XP has IRQ Steering, so there are not IRQ conflicts like in the good ol' days of 98, ME, etc. I am running Adobe certificed Nvidia driver versions, plus from what I understand it's using the CPU to encodue/capture, nothing to do w/ the video card. Poorly installed PCI card come on? Remember this ONLY happens w/ HDLink's capture. I guess you're trying to help and that's more than I'm getting from Cineform. I'm really not trying to rant on them and that is not the purpose of this thread, I REALLY want to get this working.

December 22nd, 2006, 03:58 PM	#12
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	check what chipset you got to run firewire. TEXAS are ok, VIA are often crappy. my asus motherboard was delivering unstable performance with the on-board firewire, while have been never disappointed with the one on my PCI soundblaster audigy. Virus can do anything to your pc, especially making them slow by trying to send tons of mail somewhere (virus and spyware are not really written to be good programs). Google desktop and antivirus are catastrophic for disk access. Some drivers like the one for HP usb printer are pain in the ass, running dozen of process in the background. external USB card readers can be disturbing too. everything in your PC is sharing interrupt and some PCI bandwith. Some time you could get USB, gigabit ethernet from motherboard sharing with a PCI slot. just use this PCI slot and everything goes wrong , you don't know why. Bad power supply can cause strange problem too. I am in computer support for more than 20 years now and believe me problems always come from a place you would never guess.

December 22nd, 2006, 05:18 PM	#13
David Taylor Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Solana Beach, CA Posts: 853	Josh, we do sometimes see incompatibilities with a fewFirewire cards. I'm not able right now to articulate which ones, but I'd pull your FW card and see if that helps. Our tech support guys have now left for the long weekend an will return on Wednesday.