Cineform Neo Product Line
 

David, David, Jake and the Crew,

You guys must never sleep! Congratulations once again. Can't wait to see all the new features.

Here's a couple of links to the announcements:

http://www.cineform.com/products/NeoHD.htm

http://www.cineform.com/press/rel070412-NEO.htm

Just a few questions...

Will NEO be replacing all of the previous product lines (Aspect and the Prospect Products) like it will be replacing HD Connect?

I see that you will be supporting ingest through Blackmagic Decklink Cards. Will Blackmagic support include real-time monitoring through the cards output as well?

Last question - Will the MAC ingest and conversion tools, as well at the software components for MAC applications (when they are all available) be able to do everything that the PC tools can?

Amazing work. Can wait to use the new tools.

-Geoff Murillo

NEO HDV is an upgraded version Connect HD.
NEO HD adds 10-bit and 1920x1080
NEO 2K adds to HD 12-bit, RGB 4:4:4 and 2048x2048
NEO 2K-Ingest (coming) turn yours PC into 4:4:4 DDR

Aspect HD, Prospect HD and Prospect 2K get enhanced but remain our flagship products.

Decklink is only supported as an ingest card, AJA remains our choice editing card for the forseeable future.

Mac version of NEO intend to have the same features as the PC versions. There is no equivalent to Aspect/Prospect on the Mac annouced yet.

Sweet so with Neo HD I can take .mov and convert them to cineform .avi's? And I can have the export cineform .avi function in After effects as well, or I can just export .mov files from after effects and then convert them to cineform .avi, I'm glad I waited around :)

There's a prospect update coming? What's the difference between Prospect HD and Neo HD?

Yes, but you will doing all the same with the new version Aspect/Prospect HD/2K lines. NEO is our base product for which everything builds upon.

woops never mind about exporting from after effects u can do that already :) heh sorry. :) Still awesome .mov to cineform. Can't wait to get that one just gotta get my bank up some more :)

re: What's the difference between Prospect HD and Neo HD?

Prospect HD include every of NEO HD, plus all the Premiere Pro acceleration (not in NEO.)

My third party just requested their files in quicktime. Sounds like I'll encoding alot more QT in the future. Will I need to wrap this using QTPro, or will Prospect, due to Neo features, allow me to just convert QT directly?

Second question, do you guys every get any sleep?

Excellent news on NEO and the upgrades to the existing packages. Also great to see AVI <-> MOV conversion debuting across the range. The $999 Prospect package is a really nice surprise too.

One thing that strikes me as curious though, and correct me if I'm wrong - NEO offers the 4:4:4 codec for just $200 more than than the full raster 4:2:2 codec, which is superlative value. However, if you want the Premiere Pro acceleration offered with Prospect, the price difference between 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 is $1,000.

Are there any plans for a non-2K Prospect package with 4:4:4 support?

Regardless, greatly looking forward to the Betas and the upgrade package from Aspect to Prospect does seem like a bit of a no-brainer.

The new HDLink (in all our products) has a re-wrap tool that losslessly converts AVIs to MOVs, and vise versa. You can directly edit MOVs with Prospect HD, and soon Aspect. We will have a free decoder only available for cross platform quicktime support. Lots of stuff, pity we have to sleep, otherwise this would be out sooner.

As Prospect HD customer, you are going to like this, all Prospect HD registered users (as of the end of April '07) get a free upgrade to Prospect 2K with 4:4:4 support and resolutions up to 2048x2048.

The products are targetted like so

NEO HDV & Aspect HD -- HDV, AVCHD and P2 users.
NEO HD & Prospect HD -- Indie Film and Broadcast users of all 10-bit HD formats.
NEO 2K & Prospect 2K - Broadcaster and Film / effects work. Supporting film, HD and HDV sources.

Not at the moment. NEO 2K at $799 is really for supporting effects work seats for a Prospect 2K system. We often find two or three effects stations for every edit station, so the price reflects that. Yet 4:4:4 editing is a rarer product, and at $1999 it is a bargin. We will also be inducing NEO 2K-Ingest for 4:4:4 RT dual-link acquisition for around $1500.

That's what we intend. Prospect HD should became the most commonly used product, for HDV & P2 shooters, Prospect 2K for everything else.

David,

The day started off great with the NEO announcement. It got even better for me when I read your post above.

Thanks,

Geoff

I also just noticed that Aspect owners can for a limited time effectively upgrade to 2K/4:4:4 for $1000, which is an extremely compelling offering. I think that'll be the route for me as soon as my Q6600 quad core system has been built :)

Yes the is a good deal over the current month for all configurations (new and old customers.) The are also many upgrade in the works have a page to list all the deals, http://www.cineform.com/SpecialPricing.htm

Basically complete you order or upgrade before the end of the month, and you will saving.

I have Aspect HD v4, purchased/upgraded in December 2006. Why does it cost me $99.00, when those who got it a couple of months later get v5 for free?

Mike

We always have to draw I line somewhere. But as you did an upgrade so recently, I sure we can work something out, just let us get through NAB first (the most stressful time of the year.)

I'll be at NAB in a few days, will you be there David? I'll be stopping by the booth.

Mike

Monday noon through Wednesday. I'll be hard to catch, I'm scheduled in meetings for a good amount of the time. When not in meetings, I'll be at SL7826 (our packed little both showing, SI-2K camera, new Wafian recorders, and real-time 2K & 4K post -- we need a much better both.)

Sounds like you need a BIGGER booth! I hope to see you there.

Mike

[QUOTE=David Newman;659111]...
As Prospect HD customer, you are going to like this, all Prospect HD registered users (as of the end of April '07) get a free upgrade to Prospect 2K with 4:4:4 support and resolutions up to 2048x2048.
QUOTE]

Bigger guns for free? I like it already :)

If you only supported XDCAM HD, that would be everything that I wished for.

David, will NEO 2k work with Vegas?

NEO 2K, does work with Vegas. The only limitation is Vegas itself which is an 8-bit application, but all the other benefits cross over, 4:4:4 and resolution. Working in RGB vs YUV compression also help Vegas as it works in video systems RGB (what causes a real headache for YUV compression). NEO 2K and Vegas are a good match.

David.

When it comes to film post I've skipped a generation and basically my general knowledge is still in telecine and double system Nagra and Magnatech world.

There is a new generation of film to video transfer which is digital and apparently is called film scan, apparently 2K for super16 film and 4K for 35mm.

When it comes to this realm I am totally dumb.

Does your product at 2K or 4K mean that I could import a scan of a super16 film origination, edit it and colour grade in Cineform in something like Premiere Pro realtime playback and keep original image resolution and quality?

Silly question probably but I was not standing at the head of the queue when the brains were handed out.

Bob,

Yes, exactly. We have been handle film scans of over a year now.

Ugh, using QTPro to make .dv files ruins the quality of these CFHD videos. I'm gonna have to resize them in HDlink to 16:9 SD, and then convert to uncompressed movs just to keep visual appeal (let the editor ruin them for himself as hasn't upgrade to HDV yet). So yeah, I could use the updated HDlink, like right now. Kinda avoid that extra step.

So about "right now", as NAB is in the way. But after NAB we will like offer early access before the official May1 release.

That's fine. I'm making due the manual way for now (just wish QTPro had batch). BTW, in order to match visual quality of the cineform SDs in QT, I have to use uncompressed mov's, and the file sizes are twice as large.

David, is your group going to have any presentations during NAB that we may be able to attend explaining all of the changes to the product lineup and options available?

We have a booth SL7826 an we will be available for question, no seminar like stuff though. Have you questions ready or ask on this forum. We have ten of thousands of users, someone may know the answer if it is not somewhere on our website.

We don't have any theater-style presentations of our own, but if you're at the show, please come by our booth - SL7826. We'll have all the new stuff running including the beta of our MacOS codec.

Adobe (Jacob Rosenberg) is doing a couple presentations about the CineForm workflow in the Adobe theater. I don't know what the schedule is for those at the moment.

upgrade costs
 

well, contrary to comments previously made in this forum, it appears that upgrades to aspectHD will not be free. Are cineform going to fix all the bugs in version 4 that have made th $500 I spent on it pretty well worthless, or are we going to have to shell out more $'s to get a working product??

The hyperbole asside -- we are planning maintainence releases on 4.x, but not new features. We are just adding to much too warrant calling it 4.4.

does that mean that the cineform intermediate supported by 4.3 will work in Sorenson squeeze. I've had a ticket open on this for a couple of months.
Also, will the long promised "back to tape" solution going to be made available. Oh, and what about vista?

OT: Sorenson Squeeze seems to have an AVI bugs that have nothing to do with CineForm, I personally tried HUFFYUV in Sequeeze and it struggled also, whereas MOV wrapped CineForm files work perfectly -- so the AVI engine in that package is limited. If we do find a fix for Squeeze we will do our best to roll back into 4.x. It is on my task list for after NAB.

David, if it's a "yes", we're in...
 

So, until the end of the month, we can upgrade our Aspect to Prospect for $400...

We're still fuzzy on one thing, is the HDMI output of the V1 spitting out 1920x1080i uncompressed output, making the Prospect upgrade very attractive indeed?

If so...we're in. You've got our $$....

Stephen, yes the $400 upgrade offer is a nice one. Yes the V1 outputs 1920x1080 over HDMI, and Prospect HD will preserve that nice 1920x1080 square pixel image.

It's nice to hear about Mr. Rosenberg is going to explain the cineform process within PPro. For being a small company you guys have hammered out a lot updated code, and I can appreciate your being in a crunch for NAB.

I managed to send off a hard drive with the completed files for the interactive DVD, etc. I also included the CFHD's and a note to look you guys up. Hopefully I will have made some customers for you. Secondly, if I am going to be cutting on this fantastic format, I'm going to be picky in the future as to who I transfer this media to. It would be a shame to see it ruined by someone else's substandard encoding.

Third, I received cudos from my peers and seniors as to my last few projects, as they've indicated a "marked improvement in quality of my videos", and have plans to cut more HD projects. Lastly, my competition, an outside vendor of many years, still has no plans to move to HD (my guess is due to budget). Too bad for them.

Have fun at NAB. I can't wait to run the new Prospect when you get back.

Stephen, only a slight clarification. Anybody that owns Aspect HD at the end of April can upgrade to Prospect HD during the month of May for $400. So you have to wait until May 1 for the upgrade.

Of course if you have projects in progress and don't want to wait until May you can download our Trial version of Prospect HD which will operate with full functionality for 15 days, which takes you almost to the end of the month.

The next release of Prospect HD will have numerous new features including additional QT support for those that need this.

Thanks for the suggestion. We might do just that with NEO especially. We need some shakedown testing for a mule (for field ingest) on a new long range project. If our friend has that little mule working soon, we'll do exactly that. We can hold off on the Prospect upgrade until that happens, as it's only 2 weeks and a download away, and is for post anyway.

You guys do good work, I like that. Two companies I admire: Cineform is one of them...Tnx.