News posts from 2004 Q1

Will Fastie · March 11th, 2004, 11:54 AM

Sorry to take so long to respond.

Vincent, average access time isn't the issue. Average access time is a measure of how fast the disk system can respond once it is given the address of the desired data. Once found, the performance characteristic that matters is transfer speed and, ultimately, throughput. For video, where streaming a large amount of data is a typical practice, the NetCell RAID XL (3) approach yields much better throughput.

The article acknowledges the limitation of the NetCell approach, which is the total number of IO operations per second. NetCell does poorly in this respect. However, NetCell makes it clear that its best application is for larger files, like video, where overall throughput is more important than how many different accesses per second or per hour are possible. NetCell clearly states that XL is not suitable for server operations where lots of small files are being handled.

Rob, as for why to use RAID at all, my personal issue is safety. However, the price for safety would be too high if I had to contend with lower performance. When I started looking at RAID solutions I was taken by the fact that I could have maximum safety in RAID 1 (mirroring) but that RAID 1 generally performs less well. NetCell's diagrams (duplicated at THG) make this clear. For a 2-disk RAID 1 array, the data must be written once to each disk. For a 3-disk RAID XL array, half the data is written to one disk, half to the other, and parity to the third; all these operations happen in parallel. So just considering the streams going to the disk, the size of the stream is half the size of the stream going to RAID 1. XL delivers parallelism that RAID 1 doesn't have.

Use of space is more efficient, too. Consider using 200MB disks. In a 2-drive RAID 1 array the total storage is 200MB (100% overhead). In a 3-drive RAID XL array the total storage is 400MB (50%). In a 5-drive XL, it's 800MB (25%).

As for why safety is important, it's really a question of time. It takes a lot of time to capture video and a lot of time to render video. Loss of those files means spending all that time over again. Because the sheer volume of data is so great with video, the lost time can be significant. I'm interested in protecting my investment of time. It's not that I can't recover, it's that the hit to my time (in a one-man shop) is a major risk.

Will

Glenn Gipson · March 11th, 2004, 01:12 PM

http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage...310030245.html

Jacques Mersereau · March 11th, 2004, 02:42 PM

I've been using a FW800 400Gb Lacie Big Disk for a couple of months now.
$449 from the Lacie website. So far this has been solid, BUT I've
had issues with their 160Gb Porsche and D2 drives.

Glenn Gipson · March 11th, 2004, 03:33 PM

I was wondering, is the Lacie drive one 400gb drive? or two 200gb HDs Raided together?

Jacques Mersereau · March 12th, 2004, 12:22 PM

AFAIK there are two platters in the Lacie 400 big disk. To get 800 mbps they
are probably strip together, but I am not sure about that.

Rob Lohman · March 14th, 2004, 01:55 PM

http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20040309S0029

"Matsushita showed a prototype of its Blu-ray DVD-RAM recorder on Tuesday (March 9) that uses a two-layer 50 Gbyte disk"

Wondering why they call it DVD in that article. Probably a mixup.

Ronald Lee · March 14th, 2004, 02:36 PM

HD is doing R&D on HD cameras and is looking to get into the market in a big way, starting with cameras.

Does anyone have any word on the specs of these cameras? Has anyone heard? I know about what they wan to do because they've approached people I know about sponsoring some shows, but I don't know any specifics.

Patrick MCMurray · March 15th, 2004, 12:33 PM

I dont think that counts as news, but were all < including the moderators> so excited about HDV, so i think theyll let it slide.

Also these people you know who are potential sponsors might be in a position to beg details... atleast a release date?

Christopher C. Murphy · March 17th, 2004, 10:27 AM

SAN JOSE, Calif., (Mar. 17, 2004) -- Sony Electronics is adding two DVD+R Double Layer (DL) DVD drives to its family of Dual RW burners. The internal DRU-700A and external DRX-700UL drives mark Sony's entry into Double Layer recording.

full:
http://www.digitalproducer.com/2004/...6/e3jpa3wb.htm

Paul Tauger · March 17th, 2004, 11:28 AM

Wow! And only $230 for an internal.

I don't understand the software bundle, though. I've the full Ahead Nero product (not SE), and I'm not aware of any ability that it has to author for double-sided disks. I wonder if this is a special version?

Ignacio Rodriguez · March 17th, 2004, 11:51 AM

Will it work in a Mac?

Rob Lohman · March 18th, 2004, 09:04 AM

http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=21731

Heath McKnight · March 18th, 2004, 04:50 PM

I'm just providing a link over to the HD10/HD1 page:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=23142

heath

Chris Hurd · March 28th, 2004, 10:52 AM

And of course, we'll post more info here as well, as it becomes available.

Heath McKnight · March 28th, 2004, 10:37 PM

Ya know, Chris, JVC wants to one-up Sony with a pre-NAB announcement, but the lack of photos and info leaves us dry. I can't believe none of us are speculating. Then again, HDV is old hat now, compared to last year, and Sony has info out via Cebit (is that right)?

C'mon, JVC, send us info and pix!

heath

March 11th, 2004, 01:12 PM	#77
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	New 400gb Hard Drive http://www.xbitlabs.com/news/storage...310030245.html

March 11th, 2004, 02:42 PM	#78
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	I've been using a FW800 400Gb Lacie Big Disk for a couple of months now. $449 from the Lacie website. So far this has been solid, BUT I've had issues with their 160Gb Porsche and D2 drives. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

March 12th, 2004, 12:22 PM	#80
Jacques Mersereau Trustee Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Ann Arbor, MI Posts: 1,334	AFAIK there are two platters in the Lacie 400 big disk. To get 800 mbps they are probably strip together, but I am not sure about that. __________________ Jacques Mersereau University of Michigan-Video Studio Manager

March 14th, 2004, 01:55 PM	#81
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Blu-ray disk recording coming http://www.eetimes.com/sys/news/OEG20040309S0029 "Matsushita showed a prototype of its Blu-ray DVD-RAM recorder on Tuesday (March 9) that uses a two-layer 50 Gbyte disk" Wondering why they call it DVD in that article. Probably a mixup. __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 14th, 2004, 02:36 PM	#82
Ronald Lee Major Player Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Vancouver, Canada Posts: 435	Official word from Hitachi about HD cameras? HD is doing R&D on HD cameras and is looking to get into the market in a big way, starting with cameras. Does anyone have any word on the specs of these cameras? Has anyone heard? I know about what they wan to do because they've approached people I know about sponsoring some shows, but I don't know any specifics.

March 11th, 2004, 11:54 AM	#76
Will Fastie Major Player Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Jarrettsville, MD Posts: 353	Sorry to take so long to respond. Vincent, average access time isn't the issue. Average access time is a measure of how fast the disk system can respond once it is given the address of the desired data. Once found, the performance characteristic that matters is transfer speed and, ultimately, throughput. For video, where streaming a large amount of data is a typical practice, the NetCell RAID XL (3) approach yields much better throughput. The article acknowledges the limitation of the NetCell approach, which is the total number of IO operations per second. NetCell does poorly in this respect. However, NetCell makes it clear that its best application is for larger files, like video, where overall throughput is more important than how many different accesses per second or per hour are possible. NetCell clearly states that XL is not suitable for server operations where lots of small files are being handled. Rob, as for why to use RAID at all, my personal issue is safety. However, the price for safety would be too high if I had to contend with lower performance. When I started looking at RAID solutions I was taken by the fact that I could have maximum safety in RAID 1 (mirroring) but that RAID 1 generally performs less well. NetCell's diagrams (duplicated at THG) make this clear. For a 2-disk RAID 1 array, the data must be written once to each disk. For a 3-disk RAID XL array, half the data is written to one disk, half to the other, and parity to the third; all these operations happen in parallel. So just considering the streams going to the disk, the size of the stream is half the size of the stream going to RAID 1. XL delivers parallelism that RAID 1 doesn't have. Use of space is more efficient, too. Consider using 200MB disks. In a 2-drive RAID 1 array the total storage is 200MB (100% overhead). In a 3-drive RAID XL array the total storage is 400MB (50%). In a 5-drive XL, it's 800MB (25%). As for why safety is important, it's really a question of time. It takes a lot of time to capture video and a lot of time to render video. Loss of those files means spending all that time over again. Because the sheer volume of data is so great with video, the lost time can be significant. I'm interested in protecting my investment of time. It's not that I can't recover, it's that the hit to my time (in a one-man shop) is a major risk. Will

March 11th, 2004, 03:33 PM	#79
Glenn Gipson Major Player Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: Plainfield, New Jersey Posts: 927	I was wondering, is the Lacie drive one 400gb drive? or two 200gb HDs Raided together?

March 15th, 2004, 12:33 PM	#83
Patrick MCMurray Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Sacramento CA Posts: 66	I dont think that counts as news, but were all < including the moderators> so excited about HDV, so i think theyll let it slide. Also these people you know who are potential sponsors might be in a position to beg details... atleast a release date? __________________ Remember, Tuesdays are Soylent Green days!

March 17th, 2004, 10:27 AM	#84
Christopher C. Murphy Trustee Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 1,707	Sony Intros Double Layer DVD Burners SAN JOSE, Calif., (Mar. 17, 2004) -- Sony Electronics is adding two DVD+R Double Layer (DL) DVD drives to its family of Dual RW burners. The internal DRU-700A and external DRX-700UL drives mark Sony's entry into Double Layer recording. full: http://www.digitalproducer.com/2004/...6/e3jpa3wb.htm __________________ Christopher C. Murphy Director, Producer, Writer

March 17th, 2004, 11:28 AM	#85
Paul Tauger Wrangler Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Los Angeles (recently from San Francisco) Posts: 954	Wow! And only $230 for an internal. I don't understand the software bundle, though. I've the full Ahead Nero product (not SE), and I'm not aware of any ability that it has to author for double-sided disks. I wonder if this is a special version?

March 17th, 2004, 11:51 AM	#86
Ignacio Rodriguez Contributor Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Santiago, Chile Posts: 932	Will it work in a Mac? __________________ Ignacio Rodríguez in the third world. @micronauta on Twitter. Main hardware: brain, eyes, hands.

March 18th, 2004, 09:04 AM	#87
Rob Lohman RED Code Chef Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Holland Posts: 12,514	Philips dual layer 8x DVD burner announced http://www.anandtech.com/news/shownews.html?i=21731 __________________ Rob Lohman, visuar@iname.com DV Info Wrangler & RED Code Chef Join the DV Challenge \| Lady X Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| Buy from the best: DVinfo.net sponsors

March 18th, 2004, 04:50 PM	#88
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	New JVC 3 CCD HDV Camera I'm just providing a link over to the HD10/HD1 page: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...threadid=23142 heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

March 28th, 2004, 10:52 AM	#89
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	And of course, we'll post more info here as well, as it becomes available. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

March 28th, 2004, 10:37 PM	#90
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	Ya know, Chris, JVC wants to one-up Sony with a pre-NAB announcement, but the lack of photos and info leaves us dry. I can't believe none of us are speculating. Then again, HDV is old hat now, compared to last year, and Sony has info out via Cebit (is that right)? C'mon, JVC, send us info and pix! heath __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog