Sony 24 P

[Federico Dib]

Well Sony has done it´s share of weird market deals in the past..
Not saying this is one of those but:

- Anyone remember Prerecorded Minidisc albums?
- I heard that DAT was originally suppossed to be a consumer substitute for your average TAPE.
- And what about BETA, or I even remember seeing a Video Cam that recorded in MiniDisc Data.

This is not by any means trying to imply that this camera will be the new DAT of DV, or that It will be a flop... but that like Ken said, let´s take it easy and wait.

[Steve McDonald]

Reading between the lines, as you must do to figure out many of these promotional
catch-phrases that describe new features,
I connect the reference by Sony about "activating progressive mode", to be about the "progressive-scan effect" that was mentioned by their representatives in interviews. That effect appears to be a frame-dumping and pull-down to equate the "film-look" of 24p scanning without really using progressive scan.

If it turns out that the DCR-PC350 really has true progressive-scanning, despite the signs I interpret to mean it does not, I will admit I'm wrong and apologize for hurting the feelings of those who have high hopes for having a lower-cost
24p/29.97p camera at a lower cost.

If all the picture improvements and large still-picture sizes that are attributed to the PC350, work as well as Sony describes and it has those true progressive modes, I'll probably buy one myself.

As Ken advises, it would be best to sit back and see this model in action, before we come to any more conclusions about its
nomenclature, that has been given only limited definintions, so far.

Steve McDonald

[Boyd Ostroff]

<<<-- Originally posted by Federico Dib : I even remember seeing a Video Cam that recorded in MiniDisc Data. -->>>

That idea is about to return with a vengence... the new PlayStation Portable will use yet another incompatible minidisk format

PSP adopts a small but high-capacity optical medium UMD™ (Universal Media Disc)
...
SCEI intends to aggressively promote PSP and UMD as the new handheld entertainment platform for the coming era.

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> The writers of several online articles got more details
> from some Sony representatives, than was directly released
> on their website. There's little other information about it
> available now.

Links to the articles would be nice, so we can see if there really is any 'insider' information in them.

> I must admit that this little camera has me a bit mystified,
> too. I'm at a loss to see its market. It doesn't really fit as
> a 'daddy-cam' (perhaps the 2nd or 3rd largest market for video
> cams).

Easy, students. You are investing time and money to pursue a film career, you need a camera to try out things and do your homework without having to depend on camera loans, you go to the store, check out the miniDV palmcorders and notice one that does a cool 'cinema-like' mode, has 16:9, is very portable and doubles as a digicam. Sure, it costs more than the daddycam... but it has these special features you like... so you spend the extra $ ... see?

[Ken Tanaka]

Ah, you make a keen point, Ignacio.

[Steve McDonald]

Ignacio, the only link to any articles you need is called, "Search" and the keyword is "Sony DCR-PC350". Actually, the article linked on the first message on this thread gives the most information, even though it contains some dubious interpretations and incorrect uses of the term, "progressive".

Steve McDonald

[Stephen van Vuuren]

Steve:

Camcorderinfo has historicially given much misinformation about technical aspects of camera and often their reviews are more replete with typos then even my posts here :)

Sony's press release is much more clear - 30 fps, progressive, 16:9. Until more information comes out from a more reliable source, I think Sony's info is the best we have.

[Steve McDonald]

Stephen, I hope no one thought I was granting any credibility to Camcorder Info and its key player, as that was not my intent. Unless you found another Sony press release than the one linked on Boyd's message, it appears that you and others didn't read it very carefully.
So please take another look at the short paragraph in that release about the "Cinematic Effect Mode".

There was no other mention of this feature on the press release. It refers to a progressive mode and recording at 30 frames per second. All NTSC video is recorded at an interlaced 30 FPS (29.97 FPS to be precise) and this doesn't necessarily correlate to the scan rate of the camera or the type of scan. I see no mention of a progressive scan and the figure 30p is not used.

In interviews, such as the one with Camcorder Info, the Sony Reps used the term, "progessive-scan effect" in regards to the Cinematic Mode. They further described how 6 of each 30 frames are discarded and through a pull-down process, 30 interlaced frames are reconstructed from the remainder, for recording and output.

The use of only 24 frames to produce 30, gives the image a less smooth-looking motion or whatever the so-called film-look is supposed to be.

To me, terms such as "progressive-scan effect" and "progressive mode" don't equate to the more exact words, "progressive scan". Are some of us unfamiliar with what Sony calls a "progressive shutter", used by some of their digital camcorders to capture still pictures with an interlaced-scanning CCD?

Why don't we all wait until Sony delivers precise and comprehensive specifications about this model, before we promote it as being whatever we are hoping it will be?

Steve McDonald

[Chris Hurd]

<< Why don't we all wait until Sony delivers precise and comprehensive specifications about this model, before we promote it as being whatever we are hoping it will be? >>

Hey! Now that's a great idea! Thanks,

[Ignacio Rodriguez]

> They further described how 6 of each 30 frames are discarded
> and through a pull-down process, 30 interlaced frames are
> reconstructed from the remainder, for recording and output.

Steve, I'm sorry but the camcorderinfo article is not consistent with this, the quote on dropping frames is from Adam Wilt, who in turn is speculating because he is being asked (by the reporter) about how Sony might be pulling off the 24 fps, which seems to me to have been a rumor. If you have a link to a quote on a Sony rep that talks about 24 fps, please share it.

> Why don't we all wait until Sony delivers precise and
> comprehensive specifications about this model, before we
> promote it as being whatever we are hoping it will be?

I think it doesn't make much sense to speculate, but it's nice that we can work together to dissect the available information.

[Kurth Bousman]

#1) if this camera has progressive scan 16x9, it's market will be everyone who has ever owned a video or film camera and 2) if that's the case , then Chris should start a "big thread " !

[Stephen van Vuuren]

There an mostly unhelpful review of the cam at camcorderinfo.com - man those people have no idea how to use/review a camera.

Anyway, there are claiming problems with the 24p due to strobing but that's just a shutter speed issue. 24fps is 24fps. However, they mention that the shutter speed cannot be set to manual which would be unfortunate. In order to compare motion with the DVX100, it would need to be 1/48th locked. Oh well. Hopefully, a better review soon.