Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

You're right, I don't own one, I have a different model of Red.

However, to address your obvious cluelessness, Red's ProRes is, as is the case with most cameras that support it, scaled from the full frame rather than cropped.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Yes, I'm the clueless one, not you who thinks an $17k Red package (not including batteries of course) shooting 2K ProRes and *all* 4K being in REDCODE is totally comparable to a C200. Clearly, I'm the one who is clueless.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

It doesn't take much to figure out that you CAN rig up a working Raven for around $13K + batteries, and when you account for an external recorder, the difference is still less extreme than you think it is. The bigger down side to the Raven is that so many people are buying them... because they're so inexpensive.

Besides "all 4K is in RedCode" isn't a down side; it imports natively into almost every NLE out there, which will probably be true for Canon's Raw Light format pretty soon also.

Either way, it's more competition, though this time I suspect that it's Black Magic that will get the squeeze.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

And the C200 is $7500. So why don't you break down what you get for $13k + batteries exactly?

And as for an external recorder, that's something most people already have, so you can't really count that.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Figure out yourself. It's not hard.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Like the rest of your advice, you just made that number up here on the spot without knowing if it's correct or not.

For $12.5k I can purchase a C200, 1TB of CFast media (over 4 cards, for about 120 minute of raw recording), 4 A30 batteries, and an Atomos 7" Flame Recorder with 1TB of media.

For $15.5k I can purchase a Red Raven with 120GB of media (for 14 minutes of recording), 2 batteries, and a 4.7" screen.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Anybody know if the C200 will accept any size CFast card? Is it locked down to 128, 256 or 512...etc?

I certainly hope Canon didnt do that. Although these days, I wouldn't put it past them. ;-)

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I know Canon updated the firmware on the C300 II to allow for recording on the new Sandisk CFast 256GB cards and Lexar says their 512GB 3500x cards are compatible as well. I have never heard of a Canon camera of any kind being directly crippled in that way, unless those Lexar cards can't support the lite raw codec for some reason (usually sustained write speeds aren't quite up to snuff)

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I actually have a GH5 rig with a Pix E5 on top. I'm completely blown away by how well the 5k readout to 4k scaling looks in 10bit VLog. The GH5 is literally no joke! Wow!

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I have one as a B-camera to my C300 Mark II.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I still haven't understood this : when do you record in 4K RAW, the LCD display shows desatured colors, ( I mean a LOG image) ?

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

On the C100/C300 II models, whenever you record in a log image you have the option of turning on a viewing LUT for the built-in display. I would assume that is the case here as well.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I'm thinking of getting a GH5 as well to go with my C300 MkII. What are your thoughts after using this combo?

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I am very pleased with how close the color is on the GH5. It's nowhere near as clean as the C300 in higher ISOs (1600+), but the picture is really nice in the 400-800 range and 1600 is totally useable. In my testing, I found that the Natural with contrast and sharpness turned down all the way, and then saturation at -3 made for a good foundation to finish matching to the C300 in its Rec.709 mode. I also like that it can record 10-bit 422 so that it's in the league as my C300 II as well.

The Sony PDAF was good for AF like DPAF on the C300 (although Canon's DPAF is better), and I do miss that, but everything else is spot on for a B-camera. I used it in conjunction extensively just yesterday with the Speedbooster Ultra and the Canon lenses in my kit and I am very pleased with the results.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Thanks for the response!

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Correct me if I am wrong but we do get clean 10 bit 4:2:2 through hdmi for 1080P right?
It's just that we only get 8 bit 4:2:2 in 4K through hdmi.

I am pretty confident that Canon will fix all these concerns in the formware update that's coming, it's very logical of them to do that.
They are delaying giving that codecs to C200 until C300 replacement is released not to kill that line.

Once C300 mkiii is released, they will give C200 10 bit 4:2:2 I am sure.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

The C200 is 8-bit only unless you are shooting raw.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Recently I've tested the camera in a presentation in Italy. I've found quite heavy to hold with one hand with the kit lens Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM. The camera needs to be hold with two hands to be stabilized. Does anyone else find the camera heavy? I think with that zoom lens is more than 6.6 lbs (about 3.0 kg).

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

What camera are you using that you can hold with one hand? Outside of small Handycams, I have never owned a camera that only needed one hand.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I'm still using my old HPX170 with just one hand, as alternative maybe the Sony FS5 is a better camera to work with (I've read online that is very lightweight), I'm interested about EOS C200 but considering this problem I hope Sony will make a FS5 Mark II soon.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I also had an HPX170 back in the day and did not find footage acceptable shot with one hand. It was okay in a pinch, but definitely not a "feature" of that camera.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

There is 10bit 4:2:2 1080p coming through both the SDI and HDMI outputs. I would not expect this to change after launch, but we might see 4k 10 bit XF-AVC internally to the Cfast card, if the gods are listening.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

And everyone would immediately sell their C300 Mark II and buy this, makes zero sense to do it.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I'll be surprised if the XF-AVC isn't 8-bit for the reasons Gary mentions. Canon definitely protects their own product lineup. That's why internal Cinema RAW Light is such a surprise as it totally breaks with Canons traditional marketing segmenting.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Here is a quote from the Post-Production Brief with the EOS C200:

"However, with a future firmware update the EOS C200 will gain the ability to record both UltraHD and FullHD to Canon’s purpose built XF-AVC codec inside of an .MXF OP-1A wrapper. This format will allow for an abundance of metadata to be captured to the file"

I would be willing to bet that the XF-AVC codec will be nearly identical to the MP4 option, just with the additional metadata that Canon cannot store in MP4. An 8-bit 4:2:2 XF-AVC codec already exists, it's in the XC10/15. However, an 8-bit 4:2:0 XF-AVC codec does not exist save for the low-bitrate proxy mode found in the C300/C700. That would need to be worked on and would explain why it's going to require a future firmware.

Also, it may be possible that the external 10-bit recording modes in 2K/1080 disables internal recording. I can't find any info about that. I do know that all VFR modes will be in 8-bit, unlike the C300.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

My hope is that for a large majority of my shoots with the C200, I will be able to buy enough inexpensive, large CFast cards so I can just shoot Cinema RAW Light with the 2K proxy and not worry about all of this. It seems lately I have not been doing as many full days with shooting all day/event kind of footage. And for those clients, the .Mp4s will suffice, they do not pixel peep. That would make my life better and would give my projects a very good camera master to do whatever with.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/p...a-eos/eos-c200

Wide Range of Connectivity Options:

Output Signal Configurations (During Shooting)

Recording Type - MP4, 1920×1080 - HDMI 1920×1080, YCbCr 4:2:2, 10 bit (*3: Output will be YCbCr 4:2:2 8 bit when the recording mode is slow motion mode.).

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I also find it disgusting that someone has made a professional broadcast and cinema camera that weighs more than 0.3lbs

Shame on Canon for making a cine camera than can't be juggled by a newborn lemur.


(emoji for laughing while typing)

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Here is the official word.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Straight from the horses mouth. Now the questions are, "4:2:2?" and "At what bit rate" although signs are leaning toward 4:2:0 and 150 Mbps.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I am going to guess the same bitrate. There has always been an 8-bit 4:2:2 version of XF-AVC in MXF. There is no reason to have to work on it, the XC10 shipped with that exact codec. What doesn't exist is a non-proxy bitrate version of 8-bit 4:2:0, so that's why it's being worked on.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

In a way, that's good to know for potential buyers. Don't count on something that "could" be implemented in the future. If you want this camera, it sounds as if the 4:2:0 8-bit .MP4 or Cinema RAW Light are really about it, unless you are willing to hook up an external recorder. Any 8-bit 4:2:0 XF-AVC would actually be less desirable for me, at least clients can view an .MP4 easily whereas lots of clients have been stumped by how to view XF-AVC. The increased meta-data would be nice but the images and sound will not be any better it sounds like.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

With the C300 Mark II being down to $9999, I think that is a steal of a deal. You can still record raw (with an Odyssey or Atomos recorder), so you really just lose the no crop HFR, 4kp60, and the touchscreen, but you gain 10-bit 4:2:2 minimum quality in all modes, and 12-bit 444 internally in 1080/2k.

For what I do, raw is a non-issue and yeah, 4kp60 would have been nice for a project (not even for the 60 but for 48fps), but it wasn't an issue to do in 2k.