New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Note from Admin: Updated to include C200B (which was not mentioned in the earlier UK press release)

See full C200 and C200B details here: http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-usa...and-c200b.html

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Canon just announced the launch of the Canon EOS C200, which marks not only a new addition to the famous Cinema EOS line of cameras, but also a bold step by Canon, introducing internal 4K RAW at a relatively affordable price. Check out all the details of the new camera below.
Canon EOS C200 – Internal RAW Recording & More

The Canon EOS C200 is here and it shoots RAW! In fact this is a camera for documentary style shooters that is laid out to record RAW as a main codec. To make shooting RAW feasible the camera supports a new RAW recording format called “Cinema RAW Light”, which according to Canon, provides the same flexibility in colour grading as Cinema RAW, but at a smaller file size, which makes it possible to record internally to CFast 2.0 media.
This is big news for many cinema camera enthusiasts, especially considering the low price point of around $9,000. RAW and a higher bitrate recordings have always been a format filmmakers of all niches craved, in order to achieve high quality results, but for many it has been out of reach. The fact that we now have a sub $10k Canon EOS camera with internal 4K RAW recording is very big news.

Recording Formats

But that’s not all. The newly developed Dual DIGIC DV6 processor of the C200 enables internal recordings in 4K UHD/50P MP4, 4K DCI RAW 50P (!) and continuous 120fps High Frame Rate (HFR) in Full HD without cropping the sensor.

As an alternative to the Cinema RAW Light format, the C200 can also record 4K UHD at 150Mbps and 2K or Full HD at 35Mbps, recorded to an SD card in the MP4 format.
•Internal 4K recording with Cinema RAW Light or MP4 format
•Continuous 120fps (maximum) High Frame Rate with no cropping at Full HD
•Up to 15-stops dynamic range (Cinema RAW Light)
•Professional High Quality image and audio
•Dual Pixel CMOS AF with touch control and extensive shooting functions
•Easy operation and flexible configuration

re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

More info and images at

http://www.dvinfo.net/news/canon-eur...-eos-c200.html

If you click on the images you will get an expanded high res image.

Enjoy.

re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I've been waiting to upgrade from my c100 mk1 and this is likely my next cam. I'll let the haters tear the specs apart first and see how the C200 holds up under the intense scrutiny.

re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

This is not a successor to the c100 as many had hoped but a higher end model that sits between the 100 and 300 hence the "200" modelnumber and higher price ofcourse, I wonder if Canon is still going to release a c100 markIII but without the RAW 4K 50p and most likely with 4K 25p mp4 incamera and maybe 4K 50p out to a recorder at a c100 pricelevel.

re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

There's actually more to it than this, but... we'll have to wait for the USA version of the press release.

Sorry about that. Only a few hours to go.

re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Yes, they're changing over to American spelling and currency values as quickly as they can. :-P

Andrew

re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Good one Andrew and I LOL'ed, but indeed there is more. About an hour away.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Okay, actually it's two models, not one. Full info here:

Canon USA Announces Cinema EOS C200 and C200B at DV Info Net

Thread title edited to reflect the news that it's two separate camera configs.

Basically, the C200 has a rear EVF and ships as a full kit with top handle, hand grip, LCD mount, and touchscreen LCD. Price $7500.

The C200B is the *same* camera *without* the rear EVF and *without* the top handle, hand grip, LCD mount, and touchscreen LCD. Price $6000.

C200B pic attached. See press release linked above for more images.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Here's a link to Canon's video introduction on Youtube for the C200 and C200B. Official pricing details aren't available quite yet but I'm pretty excited to see the warm welcome this camera is getting. It looks like it's going to be an excellent tool for our customers and the only thing I'm bummed about is having to wait a week and a half to get my hands on a demo unit!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7M6R...ature=youtu.be

Fill out an application to finance your Canon Cinema EOS product here
https://www.provideoandtape.com/canon-lease

Mitchell Gamble
https://www.provideoandtape.com/
503-598-9142

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Mitchell, much appreciated. I've updated our press release to include that video clip. Thanks for finding it!

There's a new thread here with plenty of C200 first look video clips: http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/canon-ci...-overview.html

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Short documentary shot with EOS C200:

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I've been hating on Canon for a while (as an ex Canon fanboy) but this looks really really good. I'll be pre-ordering it for sure.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I was curious about the 150Mbps bit rate for the internal 4K. It seemed a bit light. Upon further discovery I now understand why. Apart from the ability to do 12-bit RAW Light all the other recording modes internally are 4:2:0 8-bit. Also the 4K HDMI out is only 4:2:0 8-bit? The HD-SDI does deliver 10-bit 4:2:2 though for external 10-bit 4:2:2 recording.

I guess they couldn't offer internal 10-bit 4:2:2 at 50/60p otherwise that could really have compromised the C300 position in the line-up. The camera offers so much in the way of spec it's a shame they didn't go for 10-bit 4:2:2 internally.

For fast turn around broadcast work the RAW Light IGbps CFast 2.0 option is not very practical. Most broadcasters I deal with are looking for 10-bit 4:2:2 so sadly that kind of knocks this out of contention for me. I was thinking Canon color, 4:2:2 and 10-bit could have pulled me away from Sony's internal 4:2:2 10-bit 50/60p offering. Guess the FS7 doesn't go yet!

For non broadcast work I reckon Canon have jumped a big way forward as in every other regard this camera offers a lot. How it will sell at $7500 rear VF only without 10-bit internal recording in flavors other then 12-bit RAW remains to be seen I guess.

More info here:


Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Very nice indeed. Looks good

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Hi Chris, I wasn't sure what you meant by "rear EVF only." The $7500 price on the C200 includes the rear EVF and the external LCD touch-screen.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

My first impression regarding the C200 was why the lack of XF-AVC, because in my limited view and experience with Cinema DNG RAW, I've always wondered who has the time for needing to "process" every clip before editing, and dealing with all those damn individual DNG files.

After watching the various promo videos, it does seem like Canon is pushing a workflow here that may be less onerous than cinema DNG. In the BTS for "the mackerel hunters", it appears the file workflow is fairly simple (single file clips) , and I like the ability to choose from a variety of formats, gamma's and color spaces in post. in some ways this camera seems remarkably capable for high end work, and that fact that it records RAW INTERNALLY is really the game-changing element.

I guess the real question for me will be how simplified and speedy the RAW development workflow truly is. Heading to cinegear in a few days to start asking questions. :-)

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Doh! My bad Chris. Thanks for picking me up on that statement.

I picked up on the first two pictures. First picture stating: Above: Canon EOS C200 (with rear EVF) and the second one stating: Above: Canon EOS C200B (without rear EVF). Not realizing that the first picture (with rear EVF) also meant that the rest of the kit was included.

I now see further down the under Pricing and Availability the full breakdown of what comes standard with the 200 as opposed to the 200B. Reading too quickly and not always inwardly digesting the info correctly. Sorry about that didn't mean to mislead readers with my statement.

Obviously a more tempting proposition with all included at $7.5K

Chris Young
CYV Productions
Sydney

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Bit of an odd camera. Looks to only record non-RAW files in 8 bit 4:2:0..... which will be a huge turnoff to lots of potential buyers. It will have its niche I'm sure, but this rather limited restriction on "normal" recording is a bit bizarre.

One other thing that doesn't make much sense - the flip screen doesn't seem to be able to flip over towards the front of the camera. That's one of the huge negatives about the Sony A6300/500 series of cameras, and one of the huge pluses of the GH5. Making it doubly strange is that the flip screen is out above the body - meaning it doesn't need to conform to the shape of the camera to flip.

It seems as though this camera is aimed mostly at current Canon C100/300 owners, or those already ready to buy into those platforms. It'll be interesting on what happens with real world footage and work-flows.

But the bottom line is that more cameras is always a good thing, so good for Canon.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Which is odd considering the XC10/15 can record 8-bit 4:2:2 internally to XF-AVC. That Canon couldn't or wouldn't add this to the C200 at launch is puzzling.

Also, it seems as if the Cine-Raw Lite recording will be limited to DCI only. Hopefully that will be cleared up tomorrow, because DCI-only would mean cropping the sides off for 99% of everything.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I expect this is to placate C300mk2 owners (like me) and shift remaining C300 units. Other than the more robust codec options, the C300 has little to recommend it over the C200.

The C200 is getting the XF-AVC codecs in the first half of 2018 by firmware update apparently. I'm sure they could ship it with the better codecs but choose not to. I'd say this means an updated C300mk3 (with touch screen, RAW plus more features) coming first half 2018, at which point they've no longer any reason to hobble the C200.

At this point I'll probably pick the C200 up myself... looks fantastic.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I keep wondering if Canon has just sort of screwed up the communication on what this RAW light really is. Once I watched the overview video that explains the Raw Development, and the BTS video which talks about the flexibility of this self contained CRM file, I started to think about this as just another form of transcoding. I'm curious how arduous it will be. I mean, when I import a bunch of mxf's into FCPX...it transcodes everything...albeit in the background, but often slowing the program to a crawl while it does it's business. If RAW Light also means a workflow that isn't all that different from converting most camera codecs into editing codecs, (I like that you can pick and choose your formats, gammas and color space after the fact.) then this is just a paradigm shift for cinema eos users.

This camera isn't for me yet, as I'm quite happy with my C300mkII, but I think I'm seeing with this camera Canon moving towards a very mature "cinema" workflow with this, and perhaps it won't be a painful as RAW usually is...

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I agree with Gary that it is incredibly strange this delay on the xf-avc.The explanation that an 8 bit version will take time to build doesn't hold water to me. I think it's got to be about protecting the C300 likely to near the end of its product cycle. Again..I'm really fine with that. Like you said...more cameras is better.

as for the DCI 4k..that one is curious...there is a frame size setting in the Canon Raw Development utility...although it's not clear the parameters. Perhaps we'll be able to at least have overlays...with the RAW image being more like open gate on the Alexa.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

In one of the three ProAV (retailer from the UK) videos, he shows that the screen does flip toward the front in "selfie" mode.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Just to confirm, the touch-screen LCD on the C200 does indeed flip forward for the talent. There's a "mirror" button right on the side of the monitor to facilitate this purpose.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Did I hear the HDMI 4k is locked down to 8bit only?

Did I hear that right? So this camera is not 10bit friendly to external recorders?

Canon forces you to record 10bit in highly compressed h.264 or record short recordings in raw data to small and expensive CFast cards?

If so, nice (brilliant) cripple trick Canon. I was interested...but not anymore.

Canon has a bizare marketing department. Seems to be the same people that layed out the 5D-4 cripple plan.

Nice.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

The SDI: 1x BNC (output) is 10bit

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

...in 1080p.

FWIW... Cloakroom Media just posted a couple of short tests. This one shows face detection performing incredibly well in a scene that my C300II would probably screw up (especially in Clog2).


this one shows where ISO 32,000 lands in terms of noise in CRL, and how well it cleans up in Neat Image. Not bad!

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I'm waiting to see what Mitch and Panasonic show at Cine Gear tomorrow before I make any pre-order decisions. The C200 is at once, both exciting and yet incredibly frustrating. I actually had a client call to get numbers from me yesterday for shooting BTS for a TV series shooting back east. She said the client specified 4K acquisition and delivery. I don't own a 4K camera, just three 1080 cameras so I told her about the C200 as she loves Canon colors. There is no way we could shoot 4-6 days of BTS coverage of the filming of the show in Cinema RAW Light, we would need to rent a huge pile of CFast cards and the downloading, data wrangling while on location and subsequent post workflow would be a huge hassle for her company. We could shoot the .MP4 8-bit 4:2:0 UHD, it would be cheap and would be a low data rate solution. But if she decided that the footage really needs to pushed a bit, 8-bit 4:2:0 isn't going to cut it and we did not get a delivery spec sheet from the studio, which may specify 10-bit and or 4:2:2 acquisition. So I told her we should probably just rent a C300 MKII. We generally don't shoot slow motion, 4K 60p is not a requirement and shooting XF-AVC, our CFast cards would last much longer than shooting Cinema RAW Light. So if I am going to be renting the C300 MKII for shoots like this, maybe I should buy a C300 MKII over the C200? But it is still considerably more money and I predict a big price dump on the C300 MKII when they announce the C300 MKIII, which will undoubtedly integrate all of the great new features of the C200.

If we knew for a fact that the C200 XF-AVC implementation will be 10 bit, it might be worth waiting for. But all indications are that it will be 8-bit. Meh. Why do I want a camera that is capable of such brilliant imagery like 12-bit 4K DCI Cinema RAW Light shooting 8-bit in my workhorse, day to day codec when they obviously could have and should have made it shoot 10-bit? The C200 is turning out to be quite a conundrum. So close to greatness but not quite there.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I doubt that 1BNC port is 12gig 4k 10bit.

I think Canon has clearly demaned that your 10bit stay within the confines of its very highly compressed h.264 internal CODEC or record only very short 10bit 4k clips with raw data to small, expensive CFast cards. Canon does not want to loose control of the situation by allowing you to get your own 10bit recording solution OUTSIDE of the camera. (I.e. circumvent Canon's carefully planned internal restrictions)

Canon wants this to be the marketing protection wall between this C200 and its more expensive C300.

I mean, they HAVE to protect the C300 with something, right? I do have to laugh though at the ways they think up to get the customers with big money to stay away from their cheaper products.

The MJPEG codec on the 5D-IV was one of the funniest crippling tricks I had ever seen to date. Then, they told Canon reps to convince customers how "awesome" MJPEG was and to get customers to actually "desire" this almost 20 year old codec and that they dont need unlocked HDMI out. Lol

Im still laughing at that one. Looks like Canon is doing the HDMI lockdown (8bit only) trick all over again. Hehe

Solution? By a C300 instead. (Or a competitor like Panasonic's new camera being revealed tomorrow)

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I wouldn't worry about a C300 Mark IV or a C400 until next year...late next year. If you can use the C300 Mark II now, it's still a good time to buy.

You'll get 10-bit 4:2:2 UHD/DCI internally with a 128GB CFast card netting you 41 minutes of that. And you have two slots, unlike the C200, so you can roll for as long as you want (and 256GB Sandisk CFast cards are available as well, for 82 minutes per card).

I would like to have 60p and internal Cine-Raw Lite, but I have been very happy with the camera as is. And 12-bit 444 XF-AVC mode is really nice to have in 2K/1080.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Hey Dan, you gotta link? 'Cause the footage w/ Kai makes it pretty clear that even if the screen could flip (which it didn't look like it could do), it'd still be prevented from doing so by that rather stout looking cable attached to the bottom.

If you have to detach that cable to flip the screen, that would get very old very quickly...

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Kai's clueless...

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

"Kai's clueless..."

Maybe.... but you gotta admit, he's a spiffy dresser!

Glad to know the screen can flip - it would have been nuts if it didn't.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

If the initial shipments of this camera happen like other Canon cinema product launches every dealer, small to large, will get a couple cameras. Just a couple. PM me if you hear something different or if you want to discuss standing in line.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Don't get me wrong, I like Kai and find him immensely entertaining. But he is not as much of an engineer as some others who do YouTube stuff.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

I'd love to discuss Stand In Line. In my opinion it's one of Midnight Oil's best.

The 1982 performance in the rain at Wanda Beach features Charlie McMahon on didge, but my favorite is still Goat Island in 1985:


Oops, did I go off-topic? Oh yeah, the C200.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Please stay on topic, new guy.

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

It is a little troubling that Canon has introduced yet another camera in which the discussion has trailed off into debate about 1980's Aussie Enviro Pop. :-)

Just wanted to share my experiences with the C200 at Cinegear, some of which I've mentioned elsewhere.

The footage from "Dock to Dusk", (CH, I'm looking at you) projected on the giant screen at the Paramount theater was stellar in most respects, especially in shots that tested the cameras low light and high dynamic range capabilities. The footage was delicate, detailed and silky clean in the before dawn dock shots, and the underground fish delivery shot (an unplanned shot they grabbed on the spot). The HDR shots of the backlit fishermen as the sun began breaking through the fog were elegantly jaw dropping in their simplicity (the only fish they saw that day were the ones you see in the film, so they had one shot at getting that exposure and the way it rendered on screen was simply beautiful.) I think anyone experienced with the C300markII or C700 would be pleasantly unsurprised at what this camera can do. Seeing this presentation back to back with Varicam footage in the same theatre, I thought the C200 more than held its own. The quality that this camera is capable of, for the price it's being offered, is unprecedented.

Back at the booth, there were few surprises about the camera itself. The touch screen was responsive and you could orient the screen in almost any fashion imaginable--including vertically (as they've wired the monitor externally, most of the "joints" rotate 360º with no stops). You can remove the screen from the mount completely and it has 1/4 mount points on it so you can put it anywhere in your rig--assuming canon makes a longer cable (I think they already do). Otherwise it feels like a slightly smaller, denser C300MarkII, with a handle that now comes off without tools (sort of). The mic/monitor mount regains some of the fiddleyness of the XL series for those of you old enough to remember.

Talked to Tim Smith (Canon's Pro Market Manager) about Cinema Raw Light. He confirmed that they hope FCPx and Resolve will support Cinema Raw Light by the time they are shipping, and that the CRM files will drop "natively" into FCP, with background debayering similar to the current "optimization" process that FCP currently does with XF-AVC (he said they are working with Adobe, but that he was less sure about when they would implement it). Everyone seemed to put emphasis on Canon's raw software, which I've never used before, but seems like a well designed, professional interface. Got a chance to process some files in a prototype version of the new Cinema Raw Development program. Running on an iMac, the files were converting faster than real time. Export options are somewhat limited to ProRes 4444, Open EXR and a few other high end formats. I think Canon opening up that list to a few less data intensive formats would be a nice addition.

I understand that many folks are upset about the lack of standard codecs in the package. I do think canon sees this camera as a bit of a game changer in that they've packaged up RAW in a way that it can be used in a functionally similar way to their existing formats, using off the shelf cards and standard software to prep for editing in a way that doesn't seem foreign to the average user. Certainly the data wrangling requirements are going to be a step up from the existing camera (in 4k -- 410mbps vs 1000mbps), but we get a lot of flexibility in post with that, the ability of choosing gamma, color space, white balance, exposure, and tint after the fact is incredibly attractive.

I think this camera is about attracting that younger user that Red is starting to abandon as its cameras head into the stratosphere. I think it's about Canon grabbing those Ursa Mini customers by the collar and saying...take a look at what a real camera can do. Frankly, as an old guy who doesn't like to work that hard, I find this camera way more compelling than what Mitch and Panasonic showed off in the theatre an hour before Canon debuted the C200 and it's footage on the big screen. This is the first time RAW video has been made to seem less exotic and less painful to me. (I think Cinema Raw Light could be the next DPAF for Canon -- with this technology getting ported to almost any future system including DSLRs as it relies less on processor power and more on bandwidth).

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Shot on C200
4K RAW 50p

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

Is it me or does all the footage from all the new cameras basically look the same?

Re: New Canon Cinema EOS C200 and 200B
 

So now I'm hearing that the C200 has crippled it's HDMI to output 8bit only AND they have blocked all LOG output over HDMI???

I cannot and will not believe this. Who does that to a camera? There is no other camera on Planet Earth that shoots LOG and does NOT output that over HDMI and the C200 is NOT the first to do so!!

No way,...can somebody PLEASE confirm that the HDMI out has "NOT" been crippled to 8 bit and that LOG "IS" output over HDMI??

This has to be fake news put out by Canon haters.

CT