Can we safely say the HD war is a draw -- at least for now?
 

It seems that Blu-ray has the most industry support, and it has a decent amount of market penetration with the Playstation 3.

But HD DVD players are half the price and seem to have a better market penetration overall, which won't change unless blu-ray prices start dropping fast. Just saw Toshiba's HD-A2 HD DVD player listed for $299 at Best Buy. PLUS I can burn HD DVD discs now using regular DVD media.

I've been waiting patiently for one side or the other to take control, but it really doesn't look like that will happen anytime soon, if ever. It appears to me that for the foreseeable future -- say, 5-10 years -- both of these formats are here to stay. And right now, the only player that plays both is $1,000, way too much.

So tell me, am I wasting my money by getting in the game with one of these Toshiba HD DVD players for $299?

no it wont ever be over until prosumer and more importantly consumer authoring tools are made available to those budding hobbyists.

In addition, BluRay has a new burner in the pipes with a chinese manufacturer touting a $200AUD price tag for a BD Burner. Theres also rytek whove just licensed the media, so we should be seeing cheap BD media very soon.

However above all this, Its not about price, its about market acceptance and functionality

most people here in aus prefer BD due to capacity, Theres also the issue of PS3 in addition to movies being made available in BD.
Here in aus, HD DVD is virtually non existant, unless you know what your looking for. Retailers are not pushing HD DVD either.. the major retailers here arent pushng for any format really as for them theres not much cash in it. BUT BD is on the shelves whereas HD DVD is not

There wont ever be a winner as IMO the 2 will continue side by side. The only real winner i guess is the consumer, as dual format playback devices are made available, both optical formats will be playable.
Thats the only saving grace here, to be honest, i really dont care who wins, the fact remains is that i can now deliver my goods in a high def on optical media.
HOW the client plays that back is my first concern though, and Sonys marketing muscle (re PS3) is what will push HD into households which never considered HD content.
You gotta understand, those in the know KNOW, but those that dont know much about HD, dont care for it. BUT PS3 pushes that ideal into the household with the product itself, and no need for marketing hype or educating the client, its just THERE.
This is the one major factor.
With the XBox 360 HD DVD, fair enough its selling, but not enough to make any impact of acceptance of the format itself. Its just not penetrating, and for both formats, i believe its the lack of content

Maybe if more content was made available and HD DVD and BD discs included content which isnt available on SD discs, the market might grow with edmand for that content, but without demand, there is no point in worrying too much just yet

Unfortunately, it does look like a draw at this point in time. Personally, I have my fingers crossed for HD-DVD. The players are significantly less expensive than Blu-Ray players.

Manufacturing facilities require a minimal amount of modification to start producing HD-DVDs, but Blu-Ray discs require a more expensive process. I'm not sure if that means anything in the long run, but if both formats have similar image quality, and one is a lot cheaper than the other... its a no-brainer.

For what it's worth, I don't think you'd be wasting your money on a $300 HD-DVD player. I've been contemplating picking up one of those myself. $300 is alot easier to swallow than $700 for the Blu-Ray players.

I'm rooting for HD VMD (http://www.nmeinc.com/index.aspx). :-)

Harry from Ain't It Cool News is sold on HD DVD:

http://www.aintitcool.com/node/32838

I haven't watched enough HD DVD, but CASINO ROYALE on Blu-Ray was INCREDIBLE.

heath

For some reason I think HD-DVD will prevail simply because it lacks the "brand" name on it...

It's always been generic... VHS... DVD... HD-DVD... it's simplicity...

Blu-ray can hold more.. yes... it is more expensive... you can spend $600 on an "entertainment" system that can play blu-ray movies... and play some games occasionally... or you can grab an HD-DVD player for half that and watch movies, then get an Xbox 360 for $300 and play games... or... not? You're not forced into spending a lot.

If you already have a 360... $200 gets you an HD-DVD player...

Whatever, I haven't actually even seen an HD-DVD or Bluray in person... haha...

Once you buy an Xbox, and I prefer the one with the hard drive at $400, and add on the HD DVD, which isn't built-in and therefore is another add-on to your system, trh price hits around $600, too.

heath

All disc formats are about to be leapfrogged by on-demand delivery.

They BOTH lose.

IMO, until someone offers hardware that handles both formats, there will be no widespread public acceptence. Few people to place a $600 bet with a 50% chance of being wrong.

I'm way behind....I dont even have an HDTV yet, so this whole format war is worthless to me lol.

I am also... It looks to be both backward compatible and future expandable w/ a slightly higher data transfer rate.

DVD Comparison Chart Link : http://www.nmeinc.com/comparisonchart.htm

if you ever try to run a good DVD from an HDMI player to an HD ready (1366x768) with HDMI input, you would understand that HD is pretty useless...
except if you watch movies with the nose on the screen, or are a lucky guy with a 65" LCD screen.
when properly mastered and played, DVD are damn good.
and if you need more, you can buy a Harddisk player (basically a harddisk with video output) HD capable (most of them are today).
When shooting for our clients we now add to the quote such device, so at the end the customer receives the multimedia player with the final movie and all the rushes and projects files in the box.
If later he needs some change, he come back with the data ready for editing.
he just need to connect the box to any TV or PC and watch.

Having experience with both HD-DVD and BluRay, my family is sold on BluRay (even though we were pulling for HD-DVD in the beginning).

[ Running both PS3 and xbox360 at 1080p through HDMI ]

The quality is the same, the players (xbox360 vs ps3) are basically the same amount, but BluRay actually releases a lot more movies in comparison. Each week we watch for new HD movie releases, and HD-DVD is just coming in very slow. Not to mention, the other night, we actually had to flip a disk (nice feature actually) and watch the DVD side of an HD-DVD because the movie stutters and skips on "some" HD players (namely the xbox360 and a few others).

In comparing newer stuff that is just coming out, BluRay is actually coming out with content and the features of the extra content are really shaping up. HD-DVD, not so much.

As far as noticing a difference between HD and SD disks --- i've noticed huge differences (some are bad, such as too much detail ruining the effects) and a large improvement in visual quality on HD-DVD/BluRay vs DVD. Of course, this is all based on variables such as encoding quality and print quality they used for the DVD - however, in watching the same film SD DVD vs HD -- huge differences can be found simply because they don't have to compress the video so much.

I don't think that either format will go away any time soon. They both have their big supporters (studios and corporations). I'd agree that right now it is a draw.

I'm guessing you don't have a gambling addiction.

The problem is, if you lose, you've got a $600 brick with no new movies to play on it. if you "win", you've got a $600 machine that has half the features of the new $200 machine.

Yes you are Dave. Costco has the HD-D2 player for $249.99. No need to spend more money. Oh year it's the same player as a HD-A2 with a HDMI cable in the box. Some Sam's club have'em too.

BTW...5 free movies come with the A2 or D2 player on a rebate form. That drops your "effective" cost to under $130

What are you waiting for?

That's not necessarily the case here. Yes consumers have to be concerned about content but almost everyone on this board has a camera. DVD Studio Pro 4 will author HD content to DVD-R discs that playback in the HD DVD players. This is cool to me because I"m not beholden to packaged media. I hope to get a HV20 or something of similar quality within a year and the thought of watching my own creations in HD on my HD DVD player is enticing.

Technically the HD DVD specification is more mature. Blood Diamond on HD DVD will be the first title that offers internet interactivity.

Need more proof?

http://blogs.msdn.com/andypennell/ar...-advanced.aspx

What your forgetting is that the PS3 doesnt even require yo uto authour ANYTHING. you just bung your HDV fotage to DVD5 disc as m2t and voila.. instant HD delivery with no headaches

fair enough theres no menu, but to alot of people, menus and teh like are jsut fluff. For those producing HD content, this is a great wy to get their HD content into consumer homes.

Personally I don't really care much about the cost of the players. You're gonna get a new player in a couple of years anyway (new features, faster start up, etc. etc.).

The problem for me is my content library. I already own 200+ dvd's. Now I have to re-purchase a lot of movies which I'm not looking forward to. On top of that if I choose "wrong" I have to buy some movies three times.

So I'm either gonna wait or get a player and rent the HD stuff.

A third option is that we're probably moving towards downloadable / streaming content. My guess is that this will take another 5 years at least to get to an acceptable level. But it would be good to own a movie and have it automatically available in whatever best format exists on the day you want to watch it. It will be a long way before that happens (distribution being happy with double, triple or more -dips).

I think most, if not all, of the HD DVD and blu-ray players upconvert standard DVDs. So you won't need to replace your old DVDs unless you're disappointed with the picture quality.

I just did that for the first time ... took an HDV production, created an HD DVD using DVDSP4, played it on an HD-A2 hooked up to a 50 inch HDTV ... it looked great! Very enticing. Thanks for the tip on the Costco player.

Hey guys,

Not sure if you saw that Warner Bros. has developed an HD disk that will play in both types of players. Maybe the content suppliers will fix the compatability problem. Hope they won't charge alot extra for it though. The price of those DVD/HD-DVD combo disks is kind of a rip in my opinion.

Only problem is Sony as I am sure none of Sony's films (like the Bond series) will ever be released on HD-DVD unless something forces it.

Or you can buy a PS3 for $600, and no matter what happens you've got a fine game machine plus digital photo reader and standard DVD player with HD upsampling. Plus it can connect to the internet in case that becomes a mainstream way of watching videos, as some are predicting.

One of the things that will draw me to HD DVD is the lack of region encoding. I've always enjoyed foreign films and today's DVD Region Control only serves to hamper my ability to enjoy movies from around the globe.

The group behind HD DVD pretty much stonewalled the inclusion of region controls in their players. Blu-ray has some discs with region controls and some discs that can play everywhere.

I see universal players in the future for movie buffs. Fans love to talk about the major studios and what platform they support but the reality is DV Info has many indie filmmakers. Is your entertaintment content unworthy as juxtaposed against the major Hollywood studio content?

Both platforms seek to serve the needs of producers and consumers in varying ways. I chose to support the platform that strikes the best balance between the needs of the producer and needs of the consumer IMO.

My friend and I love to watch Blu-Rays and SD DVDs on his PS3 and 42 inch Westinghouse Digital LCD (1080p) HDTV. It's incredible. He also downloads HD versions of trailers for us to watch, too. And the games are wonderful.

None of my friends with XBox 360s, another fine piece of gaming equipment, have run out and bought the HD DVD add-on feature.

heath

Not a draw, according to Nielsen VideoScan as of 5/20, Blu-ray leads HD-DVD in overall software sales, 57% to 43% since both was launched. But in that last few months Blu-ray is outselling HD-DVD 67% to 33% year-to-date for 2007. That's a 2 to 1 margin.
As for hardware, Blu-ray has the exclusive support from Sony, Pionner, Panasonic, Samsung, Phillips and almost all of the computer industry, HD DVD has only Toshiba and MS and maybe some Chinese brand about to jump in, in the last few weeks Toshiba has been dropping their prices and give away 5 free movies, if that is not the sign of desparation, I don't know what is, they drop it so much I'm sure that it has to be sell at a loss, no major brand like Pionner, Panasonic will want to jump into HD DVD and compete at that price, sure it is tempting but I think the best HD DVD can hope for is just hang in there, no way they could win, HD DVD only has exclusive support of 1 Studio and that is Universal, Blu-ray has 5 exclusive studio, Disney, Fox, MGM, Lionsgate and Sony, so if you want to go out and buy Pirates of the Caribean and play it on your HD DVD player, forget it, Universal is the loaner, when do you think they will go neutral and start selling Blu-ray disc?
HD DVD is more mature than Blu-ray right now as far as extras goes, but Blu-ray will catch up, beside when I'm watching a movie right now, I just want to watch it, I don't gives a hoop about picture in a picture or connect to the internet for some other stuff, I just want to watch the movie.
HD DVD burner is no where in sight, but Blu-ray burner is now available, for us that is good, we can now deliver full author Blu-ray disc to our clients.
I got a PS3 awhile back, cuz I am a movie buff, I just want to watch HD movies, but now it as become the heart of my media room, it plays awsome Blu-ray movies, it upconvert SD DVD to 1080P, it plays my SD card picture, it play cds, it play games, I'm not a gamer but now I am, playing game in a 5.1 surround sound system is awsome, I can surf on the internet with it with the wireless keyboard and mouse plug into its 4 usb ports, but most of all it is my demo center for my work, I upload my HD demo into its hard drive and show my work straight from it.
The war is good, it droves the prices down fast, but cheaper is not always better, I think software is the key, no matter how cheap the players are, if there are movies that people want to watch but they don't make it for HD DVD then I don't think that format can win.

When SD DVD came out, within a year, they gave away 5 movies and free rentals every month for a year from Hollywood video. I took full advantage, though the WB movies stunk (Lethal Weapon 4, Sphere, that Dial M For Murder remaker, etc.).

heath

ps-I also loved that the old REEL.com would sell one DVD for $20 and you get a freebie. I took full advantage of that, too, grin. This was late 1998 and early 1999.

So you can create a red-laser data DVD with HD content that a blu-ray player can play? I didn't realize that -- I thought the HD DVD players were the only ones with the ability to play hd content on red-laser discs. Have you tried this? What software/hardware are you using to put the m2t content onto the discs?

You can burn .m2t files from your HDV camera on SD DVD as "Data"and PS3 will play it just fine.

wow. What software are you using to create the data disc? And what is the length limitation? For HD DVD, it's about 30 minutes of content per red-laser disc.

You can use any burning software, all you are burning is "Data" nothing special, I'm using Record Now Max, I put 20 minutes on the disc before and I think that is about the max.
With their latest firmware, you can also stream files from your computer, I have not try it yet.

Does anyone have a clue why no HD DVD burners are out yet, while more and more blu ray burners around?
I guess its to avoid piracy...:P It also means blu ray is better protected.
If this is true, it may mean blu ray will win, the HD DVD makers will lose sales once burners come out. Its code is cracked anyway.

Btw. blu ray shall win - it has the potential for larger file sizes. Think about 2k and 4k and stuff like that coming to homes in a few years. TV screen diameters and resolution increasing all the time. 1920x1080 is not the end.

The disks coming from a face lifted DVD production facility cannot be the future. Even if B. Gates himself supports it.

My media center already does a good job at that. Obviously I want to see the movies I own (or at least some of them) in full HD. Hence the need to buy them again (or rent I guess).

Keep in mind that blu-ray has been around a lot longer than HD-DVD. It's being used in the broadcast sector. That means it was also targeted to data storage from day one.

As far as I know HD-DVD is still being targeted mainly as a movie format (only).

I'd like to try this. Is there a Windows based workflow around?

I'm sure there is. But I wonder if the DVD SP 4 version is good for both Blu-Ray and HD DVD, since Apple support Blu-Ray.

heath

Heath,

I have FCS2 with DVD SP 4, there is no blu ray support, only HD DVD. Weird...

Until Adobe Encore for Mac comes out, there is no blu ray authoring software available for the Mac.
Compressor can make .m2t file from the HD source you output from FCP and blu ray players can play that without menu. I can confirm, at least PS3 can play it.

Yeah, try this site.
http://www.hdtvtotal.com/module-page...reating_hddvds

My First Mini HD DVD
 

Terrific link! Thanks. He wrote it up using VideoRedo, Ulead DVD Movie Factory 5 and Nero.

I found out that Liquid 7.2 can make the MPEG2 file and DVDMF 6 Plus is happy to burn the HD DVD structure onto a DVD-R.

Viola! A Mini HD DVD! It looks great!