Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

I notice many people complaining that this will be available on the app store. Downloadable. To me, thats a big time plus.

Thats the future people. One day no programs will come in a box. Just cause that means its easier to purchase doesn't mean its not for the professional. Gimme a break.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

So when you change your car you add up how much all the previous cars cost and say I paid $X for my car and this one is only worth $Y now? A bit silly don't you think?

Suppose the car salesman said "actually, we don't want your old car in part-exchange, but your new car will be only one third of the cost of the last one". Would you be happy or mad? Think about it.

The fact is you bought the software at the going rate at the time, with the features it provided at the time. You've used it, hopefully to earn money from, so it's likely paid for itself already anyway. Why complain that the upgrade to something better costs less than you thought it would? Think about it.

Don't expect Apple to offer you a further discount on $299, it's an awesome deal.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

I'm reading that Soundtrack and Color are included in FCP X:
Apple announces Final Cut Pro X | Apple Talk - CNET News

We'll see how accurate that is.

My guess is that Apple also has to include some component to export the editing you've done, so I'd assume that the "Compressor" component portion would have to be included somehow. You can't just be left with a FCP project and no final rendered video. Then, it'll be interesting to see how Apple addresses the DVD and Blu-Ray issues; particularly due to their stated opposition to supporting Blu-Ray. I'm not as worried about the DVD/Blu-Ray issue, as most of my rendered videos are for computers/web use, but this will certainly be a big question. The biggest question in my mind is what they will do with Motion.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

The professional issue is about the depth of control in an edit. There are many techniques that need 'key frames' and manual manipulation of layers. The current version of FCP does that very well. It may be that 'X' achieves the same result using a different approach. We don't know yet.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

I think this is the issue -- Apple did not release enough information during the "demo". By not giving details on things like Motion, Color, etc they have left a lot of power-user thinking "Hmmm...Looks like iMovie, does a bunch of auto stufff, what's in it for me?"

I think they would have been better to end the presentation with at-least a road map of where the other functionallity and apps are going. Even if everything will be what everone expectgs, right now you have a buncdh of people asking questions and feeling like they are in limbo. Suddenly the Avid deal or CS5.5 starting looking more attractive.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

For my work outputing to DVD/BR is all I do so I will have to wait and see what they do. Id love to see a authoring app for it that supports BR id pay another $300 for that. If I had to guess id bet thats what Apples counting on. $299 for FCP another $299 for the new motion another $299 for some new version of DVDSP. Which is fine with me then I can buy just what I need.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

I think we'll see a built-in Compressor, like Share, but more powerful, faster (definitely needs to be faster than Share) and DVDSP as part of that, like in Share, but more options. Maybe it'll open a window that you do all your authoring in. I hope there's a more robust BD option that what's in Share.

I could see Color and Soundtrack Pro being built-in, too (minus the loops, of course), but Motion? That's gonna be tough -- how can they build that in, I'm not sure, but if anyone can do it, it's Randy U. and his team.

heath

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

The problem with this method is file size. I installed the entire FCS and it was something like 40GB or more. Do you really want to do a 40GB download? For some it's not impossible but depending on your connection type this could take a long while to leave your computer doing a download.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Randy,

Your workflow is your workflow - and delivery targets are what they are - and I absolutely respect that. But it's also important to be mindful of larger forces at work. I just saw a comment on Photography Bay that echoed my thinking about the future of ALL physical media.

- They make 10,000 copies of a DVD, then ask for a web version "just in case someone wants to view it that way." Then they're all surprised when the web version gets all the views but nobody cares about the DVD, then six months later they do it all again. -
** Kevin Anthony - Comment on Photography Bay.

I'm seeing EXACTLY the same from my corporate client base.

People (clients and the general public at large) want plastic disks right upnto the moment it dawns on them that they're functionally unnecessary after a simple tech change like a fast Internet connection or an iPad purchase takes place. Then the very idea of content delivered on plastic almost instantly starts to seem VERY old fashioned.

Just saying...

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

Apple simply didnt release anywhere near enough KEY information that a whole lot of serious PRO users wanted. Getting a room full of apple die hard fan boys excited is like shooting fish in a barrel for Apple.

The issue is for the past 6 or so months (maybe more?) a lot of FCP users have been feeling very neglected and saying apple has left them out to dry while going after the iConsumer dollar. Now apple shows up with what looks like a pro version of iMovie, shows a few demos of some whiz bang features, some of which really arent that new and then shuts up shop with about a million unanswered questions for those of a mind to think to ask.

So now we play the waiting game...perhaps that was their goal all along. Create a massive controversy and have everyone salivating for the next demo? Its worked for me. Irrespective of what it looks like some of the 'new ways' to edit like the magnetic timeline have me giddy...

Im loving Ppro and the speed it handles media with Cuda...it will take a lot to get me to jump ship...but maybe...just maybe...?

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

The Magnetic Timeline is just like Edius insert edit with ripple set to ON.

Ron Evans

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

That's a pretty passive-aggressive response, don't you think?

And it is significantly lacking the ability to hold water, as far as arguments go. I've never bought a car that brought out a new model three years later for more than four-hundred percent less than I paid for the previous one.

$299.00 is an awesome deal. No argument there.

For the record: 1 - I'm looking forward to giving it a try, and 2 - No one said anything about Apple giving a further discount. It would, however, be nice if they did SOMETHING to recognize those of us who've been with them in leaner times. Maybe they will. June's a way off.

I just read a post on another forum from a fellow who paid full-pop just three months ago. Now there's a guy who has something to whine about.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

That is how things work. There will always be updates to software that you have to pay for. Adobe and Sony do the same thing. About the only professional tool you don't have to pay for each upgrade is Blender. Apple never forces you to upgrade to each new version. Each new version was also a pretty large update. This new version is massive. A total new piece of software. The only thing it seems to have in common with the previous versions of FCP is the name itself. Every once of code is a totally new rewrite. So think of this as a whole new program. There is no 11th commandment that says you have to buy FCX. If the price is an issue for you then keep using FCS3. It isn't as if the software was made instantly useless just because of this announcement. If FCS3 was awesome 10 days ago it is still awesome.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

As with anything newly announced and not-yet-released there are more questions than answers.

I've been getting a ton of email about this upcoming release and unfortunately I don't have any "inside" information about the features or other goodies coming in FCP "X"; I used to spend a lot of time digging into Apple pro video issues but the last 2 years especially I've been allocating a lot of my time with Windows-based apps too. (Have you people seen Lightworks yet? Amazing stuff - and unfortunately Windows only. ugh)

But I do have a few points to ponder:

- It's not surprising that Apple integrated some of the cool and easier-to-use tools that have been in iMovie for years. As far as I'm concerned things like a filmstrip method of scrubbing footage, magnetic timelines and a other "simple" goodies have been implemented in other NLE's a few years ago and Apple is just now playing catch-up.

A few of the major benefits I see:

- Finally addressing all RAM and CPU cores (Apple's version of hardware acceleration)
- Making making deeper tools from apps like Color & Soundtrack built into the interface
- Finally addressing the god-awful gamma-shift (I hope!) by making the entire project color-managed by Color Sync
- And direct-element synchronization along with collapsable/expandable element timelines.

Again, many of these features have already been in use for years elsewhere, it's just finally coming around to FCP.

A few things to be wary of:

- All the "auto corrections" that can occur during ingest. That's definitely an "i-product" methodology and there will be times when you *don't* want FCP to alter your footage on ingest, so the hope is that these auto-import-altering features can be user-selectable and or turned-off when you don't want them.
- Just how well things like Grand Central Dispatch play with the hardware; if renders do truly become accelerated, great, but not at the expense of having your fans spin up like a jet engine and ruining your quiet edit environment.
- The learning curve. This is a truly revamped interface sharing almost nothing with it's predecessor. That means a fairly decent amount of time to get used to the new interface and learning the new tools.

Would I recommend someone who's just purchased FCS 3 getting this newer version - regardless of it's "low" price-tag? Not yet. FCP 7 is an amazing application and is the most stable and useful version of the Final Cut franchise to date. No need to re-invent the wheel if things are working properly.

My advice to anyone who's a current FCP user: Wait a few months after release and let those with time to kill suss out the kinks which will definitely rear their ugly head as they always do with re-written pro applications.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

The second of these two videos:

Unofficial videos of Final Cut Pro X arrive online

They discuss pricing and Apple says they're doing away with Final Cut Express and upgrade pricing.

Heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Matt,

I was taking notes live as the demo was going on. What I should have written is that with the inclusion of secondary CC and grading the need to send your project to Color is lessened. Who knows what they plan to do with Color, which if you remember was purchased and not developed by Apple. Since it seems that FCP X is a new from the ground up App, I wonder what will happen to Color. My comment was just a guess on my part at that time. There are still lots of unanswered questions.

Daniel Weber

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

A number of people had an opportunity to talk with Apple execs after the presentation. The common thing I heard was, this is a sneak peak at FCP. The rest we're not talking about, yet.

The feeling I walked away with is that they rolled features of color and soundtrack into FCP. They didn't kill those apps.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

FCP X in June.

Lion not until mid to late Summer.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

After seeing the entire presentation on Vimeo, I mus say I am impressed. Everything looks very smooth, and all the tedious tasks of an editor are done away with. I hope Apple will shed more news soon on the entire suite. I might want Motion and Soundtrack Pro, I don't need Color.

And I hope compressor is build in, not a separate application.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Heath,
I use Avid in work, but have Premiere Pro at home - as well as Sony Vegas Pro 10, which seems to get used more and more since I can throw anything on the timeline and it just gets on with it!
It would mean a fundamental new approach for me to espouse Mac-based products, but nothing is set in tablets of stone and I'm always happy to embrace new technology...

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I agree Floris, when I saw the screenshots I thought: oh no, it really seems like iMovie Pro.
But the screenshots and the specs don't do it justice when you see the presentation on Vimeo - especially part 2.

(Part 1: Part 2: )

The Magnetic timeline really seems like a game changer, and the one-click color matching had me impressed. I thought: isn't this feature already a bit in FCP? But then you see how it makes an almost full grade when it's matched with a very stylized clip, and my jaw went down for a moment.

I still have many many questions, and some doubts, but after seeing the demo I really felt sold and now I almost can't wait to get and use it.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

"the one-click color matching had me impressed."

Me too. But then so did the noise reduction tool demo for STP when first shown some years ago.

Unfortunately, back in the real world these tools are rarely as effective as they appear in the Apple demo's.

Even so, i'm really excited about this new FCP and shall be downloading it the day it arrives.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

Been using FCP for 8 years now. A cheaper FCP is a good thing. We'll see how they price the rest of the FCS suite which I guess will come out in bits and pieces.

If they can fix the whole render wait thing, it'll be priceless

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

Not really, but I suppose that's how you could have chosen to read it. Maybe if I'd littered it with unnecessary smileys? Sorry you took it the wrong way.

The point about the car was very valid. I was asking you if you'd feel the same IF that happened (which BTW it's 75% less, not 400% less ;)). IF Apple has announced the cost at $1,000 your essential premise would have been no different. $1,500 (for obsolete versions) + $1,000 = $2,500 for new software that's only worth $1,000..... Sure, the values changed, but the sentiment didn't.

Cheaper software is always good providing it delivers the tools we need and is reliable (i.e. not buggy). What it will do however is put great software in the hands of more people who are perhaps not going to use it to it's true potential, making home movies for granny etc. This 'could' devalue the brand "Final Cut Pro" in some people's eyes by thinking of it as a consumer program, even though it has pro features, whereas if it was (say) $2,250 like Avid, it may be given more respect. We'll have to see.

If I added up all the money I spent on software over the last 20-25 years that is now totally obsolete I'd probably cry.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

While the color matching feature might not work exactly as advertised in real life, perhaps it'll get it somewhat close, and allow further refinement in Color.

In my experience, it's hard to beat human judgement when it comes to getting color right. In fact, it's so subjective that if you put 4 experts in a room, you'll get 4 different opinions.

I'm looking forward to the changes, tho.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

Perhaps if I had gone out and bought FCS last week then I'd be annoyed that a new version was coming out and was so much cheaper. But if I'd done my research I'd have know a new version was coming. And frankly the cost of FSC is pennies anyway. It paid for itself in a few days.

What's always a worry for me is having this kind of simple yet powerful software the App store means more of my clients (mostly creative agencies in the North England), will be encouraged to try using it for themselves. And I'll start losing the little day jobs that keep me ticking over.

Still it's been going that way for a while...

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

I am sure they said that Colour and Soundtrack Pro are included in the 299 package.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

It's not something I inferred from the presentation, although portions of Color and STP have certainly been integrated in to FCP itself, so it remains to be seen it they are now fully integrated (so no external apps) or if they are still available as separate apps as well. The same goes for Motion.

My guess is these will all be separated in the App store and have different upgrade cycles. Take DVd Studio Pro for instance, nothing has changed in DVDs, so why not put it as a standalone app in the app store for $99 (or less!).

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

I was very impressed by what was shown. New ways of dealing with the timeline.

I always have preferred M100 to FCP, I use both (M100 80% of the time).

The new timeline has some of the very feature that I love about M100, but seems even better.

Of course the proof is in the shipping version. But from what I see Apple has taken some giant steps that others will have to catch up with.

This is very interesting, if FCPX does everything it promises I would say it is revolutionary.

As far as price. My first 2 NLE's cost about $30,000.00 each (a while ago). Now most cost about $1,000.00 plus hardware, another $5,000.00 or so for CPU, RAIDS, AJA/Matrox etc. So the lower price for SW and hardware does not hurt any of us. And the trend continues. Look at camera prices and capabilities compared to 20 years ago.

These are very interesting times, and I don't just mean politically.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I do lots of extreme sport films and the speed control is HUGE for me. I hope when a clip shot 1080 30p is slowed to about 60% it's a smooth 60% and no choppy like the previous FCP and the reason why most shoot 720 60p.

I have my fingers crossed!!!

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Robin,

I've heard that for years, Avid users going to Vegas because it's so much easier to use. Well, if you come over to the Apple and Final Cut Pro, that would be awesome!!

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I posted a link to two videos from the presentation:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...ml#post1638730

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Agreed. All I can ever seem to get their noise reduction function to do is to replace the room noise with digital noise...

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

You guys should also look at Edius too. Lots of the demo can be reproduced with Edius and there is no rendering needed, will play almost all files native, the best multicam, and there are lots of users running on Mac hardware too if that is your PC of choice. Choose the software that fits the needs for the work flow and then use the hardware it needs. The demo maybe highlights things that are new for Apple but not for the rest of the world that has had them for a long time.

Ron Evans

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Here's a review of Edius that I touched up last year; it's a solid NLE:

Edius 2011 - TopTenREVIEWS

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Noise reduction: Izotope RX 2 ... nothing comes close.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Jon Chappell's thoughts on FCP X:

My thoughts on Final Cut Pro X - Digital Rebellion Blog

And his excellent Digital Rebellion products will be compatible once FCP X ships:

Final Cut Pro X and Digital Rebellion products - Digital Rebellion Blog

heath

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Interesting report Heath. I have a few comments.

I didn't think FCP had native file support but needed all files to be converted or at least in a Quicktime wrapper of some sort yet native support checked on the chart with 4 boxes !!! To my knowledge still doesn't support AVCHD. Vegas and Edius support native files straight from the camera to timeline with no conversion to anything else. Also Edius does have customizable keyboard commands and workspace and a multitrack audio mixer even in Edius 5.5 much improved for Edius V6 the 2011 product.

One of the strengths of Vegas is its scripting also not checked on the charts. The customization of controls and layout of these two programs allows me to set them to use a Shuttle ProV2 with the same actions initiated by the same buttons for both programs and the screen layouts are much the same too. I mainly use Vegas for audio and Edius for video. Both have free floating windows that can be moved or nested to make the workspace truly customizable across many screens. Different layouts can be saved for performing different actions. I have mine across two 24" monitors and also to an external TV monitor.

Maybe an update of the report with latest products would be useful.

Ron Evans

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Vegas supports OpenCL and now uses OpenFX for it's plug-in interface. Boris Effects already has some tools for it.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Any talk of native import of Panasonic MXF files? Is this already in FCP?

Second step/conversion to ProRes 422 before application to the timeline? How is this handled now?