Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Too soon to ask I guess, but I think a nice bonus would be able to keep our existing FCP suite and have FCPX installed on the same machine. Some clients might take a long time to switch to something this new, but I'm ready to start ASAP for my own projects. As a former Vegas (and way before that--Speed Razor) editor I'm a big fan of the new Magnetic Timeline feature.

It seems to me that Apple will sell more of these if they allow both versions to live side-by-side on the same machine. Is that possible do you think?

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

I will miss the nice light grey color of the current FCP and its clean layout.

Looks like there's so much clutter on the screen, reminds me of a video game.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

I am quite amazed by all the negative reactions on the web.

"Final Cut Pro looks like iMovie, not professional enough"
"The $299 price will bring my rates down"
"I don't like that they changed the interface"

Last year everyone was complaining that Apple was doing nothing.

Also... I really don't see why a cheaper application makes you less pro. Tools are just that, tools.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Jon Chappell says this:

"As it is an App Store app, it won't overwrite the old version of Final Cut Studio so you can still go back if anything is missing."

So I guess we'll be okay.

My thoughts on Final Cut Pro X - Digital Rebellion Blog

heath

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Exactly! While I believe FCP killed off half the production houses over the past decade, you still get paid for your talent. I know a few FCP editors that are highly skilled with the app, but can't edit to save their lives, can't tell a cohesive story.

Heath

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Just got back from NAB and am gathering my throughts...

But these threads have me alternatively chuckling and cringing.

It's always the same. The very fact of being a leader in anything, puts a HUGE target up — and I'm always surprised at how much people love to do their damndest to take the leader down a few pegs.

Human nature is such a goofy thing.

Personally, I wish I had a dollar for every time someone told me that Apple had "totally missed the target" with something and either the product or the WHOLE COMPANY was headed for ruin!!!

I've also heard a thousand voices raised that no matter WHAT Apple does it will be flawless, untouchable, and much, MUCH better than anything anyone else uses! Both views are kinda silly, IMO.

Editing software is complex stuff and what works for one practitioner doesn't always work for another and that's just the way it is and the only reasonable view is to assess how it might work for YOU.

Interestingly, in the way that I work as an INDIVIDUAL, Apple has been, on balance, a LOT closer to the mark than any other company in both my general life and in my history as a video producer and editor.

And on first look from my seat in the audience at NAB, it doesn't look like anything has changed with regards to Apple taking the time to get things right. Yeah it took a long time for the rev. But what they showed me LOOKS like it took a long time AND a lot of thought. I like that. Real quality is often found at the end "it's ready when it's ready and we're not going to make it crappier just so we can release it sooner." It's the antithisis of the recently popular "let's pre-announce what we are planning to do someday and then see how long we can make everyone wait for delivery" mode. I like this a LOT better.

I LOVE how FCP-X takes advantage of the new Core technologies - and it just makes sense that they wouldn't deliver a product that didn't leverage all the "under the hood" enhancements that were being created and implemented in the underlying OS. Yes it took a lot of time. But it looks to me like it was time well spent. We'll know the rest in a few months.

But I came away delighted at what I saw.

My 2 cents, anyway.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

I have an IMAC with a 2.66ghz Intel Core 2 Duo and 4 gb ram. Wil it run this new FCP, given that I dont care how long it takes to render a video as long as it can do the real time stuff sufficently.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Kris, I think you're okay with your specs. We'll know more soon... I know older Intel Macs had issues with FCS 3, but we'll have to see.

Bill, your two cents is great, and summarizes how to approach ANY NLE. I get into platform wars on FB, and I'm not looking for it. I have friends that use Vegas, Avid, etc., and I'm sure someone hates FCP.

heath

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

Adjusting the audo
I think a lot of things via tweet were left out. I caught some of the subtleties from Randy and Steve when they were introducing features. The auto audio and color correcting would be user selectable. That could mean on or off, or that adjustments could be made to those settings in an inspector. I have a feeling a lot of this will feel like editing Raw, like photos in Aperture. In fact, probably exactly like Aperture. The whole file structure seems the same.

You can see some ultra high-res images of the interface around. There isn't a "color-grading" area in the interface. Maybe a Colorista/Magic Bullet style color corrector, which is more for those editors that don't do grading. But there are filters called "grades" so I dunno. I still think Color will still be standalone. You'll want to animate mattes and get very precise with your corrections—otherwise, options will be Color 1.5, Colorista or Davinci.

Motion?
There were some detailed motion graphics in the Audi demo. That wasn't just the title tool. Motion has to be a standalone product, just not announced. Otherwise, it's just After Effects for that stuff. And that's not always the quickest/easiest solution for everyone (except me cause I'm in AE all day long). Maybe Motion will have an actual 3D camera, or maybe manipulates your 3D footage. Who knows, but there are too many non-AE keyframe people in the world that want to add that broadcast feel to their work.

And Soundtrack?
I heard some Soundtrack loops too. I'm glad I won't have to roundtrip to STP to remove pops and background noise, but FCPX doesn't look like a loop-editing app. So maybe Soundtrack Pro is $99 and loops are extra? It still has to be around.

Richard Townhill, Director of Pro Video Product Marketing for Apple said, "the purpose of today is to focus exclusively on Final Cut Pro, highlight some of the new features, and give people a chance to see and comment on the new interface. We will have much more to say about both Final Cut and our other applications in the future." The key word here is "other apps." That is at least 2 apps and could be 3. I don't know what that means about a 4th app so don't get your hopes up about Bluray Studio Pro.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I have been thinking about the $299 price announcement and the absence of the other apps. I think Apple is monitoring our reactions to the price. The overall opinion is that it is too cheap, not a professional price et cetera. I think it is a safe bet that they will price the other apps in the current suite accordingly. Smart move by Apple. They now also know how Adobe and Avid are pricing, so they can adjust their strategy accordingly. If they had revealed the other app's prices, they couldn't do so anymore.

Just my thoughts on this matter. Otherwise it makes no sense to me.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Cool, thanks Heath. I think allowing both version will increase the switch-over rate to the new software and for $299 I think it is a "must have" for no other reason than to test.

Now if they would just figure out a way to save a project so it can be opened in older versions of FCP and we'd be all set. I guess that is where XML comes in but haven't tried that.

Thanks
Jeff

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

The problem for Apple is that Adobe have a fully integrated product, Premiere and Photoshop Elements 9 for $120 in this prosumer space on the MAC. Features are not the same but in some respects is more capable than FCPX. I know the Apple fans will not look closely but maybe Apple are a little concerned.

On the PC at this price range there are lots of products. Most companies have this range as a subset of the pro models. Adobe has Elements, Sony have the Vegas Studio range and Grass Valley have Edius Neo 3, AVID/Pinnacle Studio. All will edit native files and have Bluray disc authoring built into the product and range in price from $80 to $195.

FCPX looks like a really nice product very well presented in true Apple style but in some respects may be expensive and lack functionality when compared to its PC equivalents at this price point.

Ron Evans

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

If we are now talking about consumer products don't forget that each & every Mac ships with the very functional iMovie at no extra cost so the average Mac user has no need to buy a consumer oriented video editing product.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

First off I think everyone has to remember that this was a sneak peek at FCP only and not the other apps. I have no doubt that Apple will be releasing the other Apps separately as well.
This is my reasoning.

I think that while $299 is a good prince for FCP (I will be first inline to buy it) when you stop to think about it, $299 is not exactly as cheap as you would be led to believe.

Remember that FCP came bundled in a suite (FCP, Motion, Color, Compressor, DVDSP, STP) which goes for $999, new. Bundled software is always cheaper than ala carte.

So with this in mind, figure that FCP, which seems to have elements of Motion, Color, STP, Compressor in the app itself goes for $299. But if you want/need further functionality then you will wind up buying all or some of the other programs in the suite (Ala Carte).

There are many out there who probably don't use much of the other apps at all, and some who use all of them. So one's total needs will vary.

Now, as I said it's very that likely Apple will be selling all of the other apps separately as well.
Which is nice, becasue now one can build his/her own suite.

So figure if you were to pay $299 an app, then that would be a in the neighborhood if $2,000.
If they let you buy FCP for $299 and get additional suite programs for $199, then you would spend something like $1,500.

Remember that FCS right now is $999, so in the long run you could wind up actually paying more for your overall needs. Personally, while I do have a background in 3-D suing Cinema 4D, I don't really use Motion that much, as I haven't had the time to learn it. I don't use Color that much, as I use Magic Bullet Colorista in FCP itself. DVDSP I use because I have to on the Mac Side (I don;t want to spend the extra money on Adobe CS suite and Encore). I do use Compressor for most of my encoding and use STP often for cleanup needs (if PCF has greatly improved audio then I might not have need for it).

So my total cost might be FCP, DVDSP, Compressor, STP=about $900.
Is this a deal, well compared to $99 for the entire suite, no.

So in the big picture of things Apple might wind up making more money on the selling of separate programs. Now what kind of discounts they give you is unknown at this point. But it has to be something, right?

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

This is not already in FCP. Though I think it will be in the new one. I thought I read that they said there will be more file recognition in this one. From a competitive standpoint they almost HAVE to include some type of compression. Even my CS3 can recognize .mxf and play it in the timeline.

To Greg Harris:

I thought that no matter what program you use, if you undercrank such a low frame rate (30p) it all will look choppy?

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Nigel, while we haven't really seen much of FCPX, as this was just a sneak peek at some features. I really find it hard to believe that this will be anything but a professional product.

Just because it might look like iMovie, doesn't mean that it functions like iMovie.

I also work in Sony Vegas Pro and have used Sony Vegas Studio as well. The look, functionality and interface are the same, but the feature set are different. Vegas Pro is much more powerful and has many more pro features on it that Vegas Studio.

I think one of the reasons that they look alike, is that only 1 app has to be developed, but can have a different feature set. This makes it easier on the developers as well as the end user who might want to upgrade and not have to worry about a whole new layout or workflow.

So why can't FCP be the pro version with more pro features and power and iMovie be the lower consumer version. They both have the same look and engineering, but the pro version (FCP) will have a much greater feature set and ability. So if someone who works in iMovie want to step up to more functionality, they can do it almost seamlessly.

Final Cut Express ran on the same old code and layout that FCP used to use.
iMovie had the newer more advanced code as well as interface. So it's no wonder that Final Cut Express goes away and FCP is redesigned with newer code and the newer IMovie interface.

This is fine in my book, as coming from Vegas, I always felt that FCP was rather clunky and archaic in it's design. While it was ground breaking in the past, the current version was lacking and in need of a make over.

Again coming from Vegas, I never liked the traditional linear A/B editor, and preferred working on the timeline. So I find the current layout, at least what was shown to be quite refreshing and cleaner in it's interface.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I think Michael pretty much hit it on the head here. FCP was only one small part of the package for $999.00. If you were you breakdown the cost per application now then perhaps FCP would also be about $299.00.

Just look at the current Final Cut Express. This is almost identical to FCP except a few features here and there. The interface is the same, the engine the same and the core editing features the same. About the only thing missing is 24p support and more cinema based features. FCE is still $199.00 however which is a killer price if you don't need 24p support or multi-cam editing. Take on those extra features and you may be pretty close to the $299.00 price point.

My only concern with this method is that people tend to not know about creative tools unless they really need them. With the Studio package people got a bunch of tools they not typically cared to use. Because they had them however they were opened up to new ideas and they learned how to make use of these funky extra tools. Could sales of Motion, DVD Studio Pro and Soundtrack Pro suffer with this new purchase method? If that happens will Apple eventually have to give up on developing them? A lot of people that did use Motion used it for fairly basic stuff like photo montages. If a lot of it can now be created directly in FCPX then who is even going to bother buying Motion ala carte? Only the hardcore users that use it on a regular basis will bother buying it which could really end up hurting the program.

Finally I sure the heck hope Compressor is not an ala carte item. I am assuming there may be little need for it but if there is then I think it would be pretty sad to expect people editing to have to buy another tool just to encode to popular formats. Again I'm going to kind of assume there may be no need for a separate encoding program anymore since all the encoding features could be built in.

Re: Final Cut X Announced At NAB
 

Precisely.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

That's one gripe I had with all versions of FCP -- even if you upgraded to 7, no other version of FCP could open it. It's backwards compatible, but if my friend is on 6.0.x, he can't open my stuff. I hope they change that.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Remember that they said, on stage, they're getting rid of Final Cut Express and FC Studio, just one price. I think FCP X will be an all-in-one app, and it doesn't cost Apple as much money just to offer it as a digital download vs. boxed. FCS 3 didn't have user manuals weighing it down (thank goodness, because I just found my old FCS 1 and 2, and they're HEAVY).

I don't think FCP X is any less professional than FCP 7, Premiere Pro CS5, etc. Apple also dropped the price of Aperture from $299 to $199, then to $79 on the Mac App Store. People were saying Aperture 3 would be iPhoto Pro, and while it has some features, it certainly isn't iPhoto Pro.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

iMovie is better than Moviemaker in Windows but no match for the consumer products I mentioned that I believe are competitors for FCPX. Have a look at Elements. There are things that FCPX demonstrated that Elements cannot do but there are a lot of capabilities in Elements that are not in FCPX at all. Depends what one needs to do.

Ron Evans

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Keep in mind, FCP X is still being worked on, so I'm sure there are many more features to come.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

We have also only seen a fraction of what it can do. I teach video editing and there is no way I can show everything in even a 4 hour class period. It would take an entire week of events everyday for Apple to show us everything in FCPX. They just showed a handful of the cool stuff to get people drooling. They don't call it a sneak peak for nothing.

Re: Apple insider reports new FCP at NAB
 

Some more thoughts from Gary Adcock via Macworld:

Final Cut Pro X stays in the picture for pros | Video | Creative Notes | Macworld

I'd forgotten about this announced feature, which Gary discusses:

"Users will additionally get access to the OS-level ColorSync for color management—which, fingers crossed, will squash the QuickTime gamma issues that have plagued the Final Cut software for years."

I think we're in for something great!

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Do you know that to be true ? I spent my working life in marketing and certainly I don't think Apple will hid the best till last. If there is anything left its what will be expected of an editor. I think we saw the "new for Apple stuff:" already. What remains is if its a usable program other than the presentation. We will of course see other modules all at $299??

Looks to be a very nice program if it works as presented. But not new or great. Wonderful presentation. The presentation covered things that have been available on many PC editors for some time. Apple is playing catchup and will do it in a way advantageous for Apple of course. For the price most of the features demonstrated are available in many PC programs which also include Bluray authoring/ burning and photoediting at a lower price point. For more complex editing then one would expect to pay more and move into a more pro area. The competition in the pro area will need native file editing ( not background rendering but true native file editing), media management, realtime performace etc etc. We will see what comes.

Ron Evans

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Personally I really hope Apple changes there stand on Blu ray because even though Steve Jobs doesnt think I need it I do and any edit software is useless without it for me.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Ron,

There are a lot of professional editors using Final Cut Pro. I have been a pro editor since 1997, starting on tape-to-tape and Avid, then going to D-Vision, Premiere 5.1 and then, on my own, Final Cut Pro 1.0 in 1999. It's always worked the best for me, and the features are what I need. When my old TV station went FCP in 2002 (and dumped a cumbersome NLE), Apple was thrilled and sent many from the pro video dept. to see what we were doing.

Most companies I worked for dumped Avid and Adobe for Final Cut Pro, because they were sick of it just not working. Or, in the case of Adobe Premiere leaving Apple in 2002 (only to come back in 07), being forced to switch because they're Mac users, and guess what, they love FCP more.

I'm glad to see Apple using features seen in other apps, and introducing new ones, but I don't think Apple is any less professional than Adobe, Avid, Sony, etc.

Heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I stopped caring what people call "Professional" if it does what I need and has the workflow I need thats all I care about.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Randy, amen.

I've used all the modern NLE apps, and FCP works best for me. Whatever works for you, go for it.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Heath
My comments only apply to the apparent blind belief that nothing other than Apple has these features. FCPX has integrated features already available on PC programs, that was my point and it still appears to lack native file support( background renders to something to mask the issue) and no mention of disc authoring\ Bluray. Major omissions compared to the competition.

Looks like a nice program but no wonder product to anyone who has a broader view of the marketplace not trapped in a single PC platform. One needs to evaluate the software that meets the needs then get the hardware that runs it whatever that happens to be, PC, MAC, Unix box. Hardware these days is much the same for all of them being driven by Intel.

Different business needs will dictate different work flows and software requirements. I do not believe that any one program will meet all know needs ignoring the esthetics of the program that are important to most users. As time goes on edited outputs will more and more need many output forms for delivery. Bluray, SD DVD, WEB based forms etc etc. New editing programs will need to address these output requirements as well as the need to accept input from many sources from HD cameras to cell phones for basic task of editing. Hence the push for native file editing and batch outputs.



Ron Evans

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I see your point, Ron, and I would never say FCP has all the features, and others don't. But Apple paved the way for more affordable NLEs that work. In 1999, Adobe Premiere 5.1 couldn't handle digital; I had a copy and got rid of it within months, because it didn't work right with DV.

Many of the NLEs are based on a UI from years past, and I'm glad that FCP X and Vegas Pro are pushing the UI in new directions. I'm happy Premiere Pro CS5(.5) is pushing the 64-bit envelope, while I wish Avid would stop putting out paid upgrades every 6 months. I also wish Avid would pick an NLE and run with it, instead of offering so many different versions at different prices. And the less we talk about the Mojo, the better. S-Video and RCA? Seriously?!

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I believe that's the result of FCP folks living in a single-platform, Mac-only bubble and simply
not being aware that many of the features they're cheering about have long been available on
Windows systems. Or perhaps they are aware, and the cheers are of the "at long last!" variety.

In 1999, I edited a project using the client's Final Cut Pro system and found myself really annoyed
at having to wait for the renders -- this was especially painful for me at the time since I normally
edited on a Canopus DV Rex RT, a completely real-time system, absolutely no rendering involved.

Sorry but I can't agree that Apple paved the way for more affordable NLEs that work. What they did,
and I have tremendous respect for them for doing this, was to provide the most viable NLE solution
on the Mac platform. Despite being behind the curve relative to the capabilities of equally priced PC-
based systems -- my Canopus DV Rex RT comparison being a prime example -- they basically set
the NLE standard for editing video on a Mac.

As for myself, I will be buying FCP X the day it's released. I use both Mac and PC systems and can't
wait to get my hands on the new Final Cut.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Indeed Ron. As someone who has been using FCP exclusively for the past decade (I haven't taken time out to see what's happening elsewhere) I found this blog useful:

New FCP X is really Not SoNew - Journal - mikejones.tv

Well, at least FCP is back in the field. What happens with Motion is of primary interest to me. I would love to see some of Motion's everyday functionality (optical flow retiming, decent titling) built into FCP. For more complex tasks I use AE anyway.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I agree with you on Premiere I stuck with it until CS4 mainly for Encore though was transitioning to Edius and always had Sound Forge and Vegas for audio before it did video !!!! . Main editor for me now is Edius 5.5 and 6.02 with Vegas 10 doing all the audio and DVD Architect 5.2 Bluray authoring for now. TMPGenc Authorworks is being used a little because of its good Bluray implementation and is easier/faster than Encore and fuller implementation than DVD Architect.

All my projects are 3 and 4 camera shows and that is why I use Edius for its excellent multicam implementation with native file support and realtime editing. Cameras range from EX3, FX1, NX5U and range of small Sony AVCHD cams. With occasional 5D and 7D files too. All go straight on the timeline.

Ron Evans

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

That's what I was clapping for.

Working in the L.A. area I know a lot of pro editors, none of whom are living in a bubble.

The comments I hear are just relief that Apple is catching up on some features, adding some new ones and doing so at an affordable price.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Chris: I agree with you completely, and I never thought of that until around 2005 when Spot and I went on that HDV Road Show, and I saw what Vegas Pro was doing (rendering, while batch capturing, while editing a third project, all at once). For me, it's definitely "Yes, about time!" with some of the features.

Josh: Thanks for the link; I'm gonna check it out while I render a project (ahhhh, FCP X, you can't come fast enough).

Ron: All my audio guys realized in 2003, 2004 that they'd have to learn how to edit video, due to budget cuts, along with sound, and gravitated to Vegas Pro. Throw in Cineform (at the time), and you were capturing great video. Vegas Pro started out exactly that way -- audio guys needing to edit video, so they developed it. I have only "flirted" with Edius.

You know what's a good NLE? SpeedEDIT: NewTek SpeedEDIT™

And I thought MAGIX was cool, the few minutes I spent with it. Check out this review: MAGIX Video Pro X 2011 - TopTenREVIEWS

Heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Kirk,

I wish I could "Like" your comment (a la Facebook); that's pretty dead-on how I feel. At home, I have copies of Vegas Pro 10, Avid MC 4.5, FCP 7 and Premiere Pro CS5. Every single one of them have features (or UI, in the case of Apple) that I dig, so I'm glad Apple is bringing a lot of them into the new version of FCP.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Now I understand the clapping and cheering.

Josh, I thought that link was good too. We Edius users are always saying it's not well know and even in that list it wasn't mentioned once yet can actually do almost all of the FCPX demo other than the one click color correction. Even arrange the windows to look the same!!!! Though the main attribute of Edius is cutting speed. Put anything directly on the timeline edit and output without rendering with everything done at full resolution viewable on a full external monitor. Audio in V6 is much better but no match for Vegas which as Heath has said started life as a DAW anyway.



Ron Evans

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I rode the plane home with those guys. Great crew. The brand's certainly been around for a very long time.


We're thinking about that. And / or a "Thanks" button.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Chris,

I hung out with the NewTek guys during NAB 2008. After a very long day, their booth was an oasis, and I was able to sit and relax, while checking out a ton of great software. Wonderful team!

Heath