Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

We are getting off topic from the FCP X sneak peek, but I think it's valid to be excited about Thunderbolt products coming out soon. Firewire 800 and 400 ultimately was for video capture and external hard drives, and early on in the iPod's life, you charged and connected your iPod via Firewire.

I'm ready for something faster, something that will enable me to be able to avoid going to a Mac Pro (a $5000 or so proposition) and stay with a MacBook Pro or iMac, and still be able to use my MXO 2 box, and some faster storage solutions.

Plus, to be able to connect more than one device to a single port? Yes, please!

Okay, back on topic to FCP X.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

That FCPX brought us to a Thunderbolt discussion does have significance. I've seen this Thunderbolt from FCPX drift happen in other places as well. In the Apple ecosystem so much of this is tied closely together.

I think part of the frustration people are feeling is that while the ecosystem approach is integral to the value of FCPX for example, none of this was hinted at in the Sneak Peek.

I can certainly make what I believe is reasonable speculation but it's based on past history and not the Sneak Peek.

Some of my thoughts are:
Final Cut Server gets integrated in some fashion just as OS Server is going to be part of Lion rather than a separate product. That's assuming Apple and End Users both believe there's a need for it. I can't help but believe though that Apple isn't thinking of Facility even though people point to Sneak Peek as focused on "the one man(woman) band"

Thunderbolt as a network connection Wild speculation? That's a lot of useful bandwidth. I can see a whole new avenue of ingest which jives with the loss of direct tape ingest (which wasn't mentioned one way or the other during the Sneak Peek either). An editor and certainly one in a facility environment, really doesn't want to tie up an NLE for ingest when it should be used as an Editing station. They DID mention editing while files are coming in at the Sneak Peek.

In a facility environment you may want that all to come in through the server and have the Editor pick off the material while they keep editing. Even as a one man band, isn't it/ wasn't it a drag to tie up your computer for HOURS while you were ingesting a bunch of tapes. Even the Wedding editor would be ingesting DV tapes all day and while tape 1 was done in the first hour you had to keep the NLE tied up while you continued Log and Capture.

So imagine this even for the one man band. Your MacMini FCS Server Ingest box is pulling in what's left of your DV/HDV (and maybe your a little big band with your DigiBeta deck) sending out through its Thunderbolt port to your MacPro/iMac/MacBookPro FCPX box so you can start editing while the Mini continues to ingest. Of course that Thunderbolt pipe might be overkill for HDV but not for the Apple ProRes HQ files from your DigiBeta. Of course that big pipe has to move all that data for the 8 cameras you've got in multicam. OK this is a bit contrived but the point is the idea of a FC Server that can scale from home use to facility use so you can ingest and access files, multiple simultaneous, while your NLE keeps editing.

Alas all my own fantasy and even if it were to come to pass it may not be the first iteration of FCPX. I can't help but think Apple's looking at Enterprise/Facility level integration. Again keep in mind Apple wants you to buy more Macs and making the use of another Mac as a FC Server is yet one more hook into another Mac purchase. BTW on the facility level I can't help think that the MacPro will evolve at least in part, into the next Server. A box with several Thunderbolt ports that's thin enough to rack mount . . . but can be used as a desktop as well.

One might argue about the above but you'd only be arguing with my speculation but I just can't help but think FCPX is going to be part of a bigger piece . . . as Apple rethinks what went wrong with Xsan and Xserve.

The problem with FCPX discussion going in various directions is one thinks about ingest for example and then thinks about what that becomes especially when they do mention about editing while files are still ingesting.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I'm laughing out loud now. I just saw on 9 to 5 Mac regarding the next MacPro prototype

The new design is said to be narrower at just over 5-inches and a few inches shorter at around 19-inches. One of the reasons that Apple might be making this particular Mac Pro prototype smaller is because it is able to fit on to a standard server rack.

This possible new design could alleviate some of the system administrator distress caused by Apple’s discontinuation of the Xserve. The new machine is said to carry “stacked” drives with two drives per sled which will allow a higher drive density than what’s already out there. These stacks are not only built for conventional hard drives, but faster, more reliable SSDs in different configurations. The width of this system configuration is said to be 3U (U = 1.75 inches).

Beyond what we’ve heard, it would seem appropriate that these new Mac Pros would also have a Thunderbolt port and perhaps even BluRay options for the Final Cut Professionals.

FCPX server anyone?
I'll read you palm for $20 too. <grin>

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Yeah I saw that rumor on other Mac rumor websites. The basic Mac Pro design goes back to summer 2003 when Steve Jobs announced the G5 Power Mac, so maybe an overall appearance update is in the cards.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Huh? The exterior may look the same, but what's in that aluminum box is totally different. Even the layout of fans, power supply, drive bays & boards has changed completely. Heck, the power cord doesn't even plug into the same place!

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Arnie,

I'm talking about the basic exterior design of the Mac Pro, which was highlighted in that 9to5Mac.com article:

"Looking at the Pro Mac design evolution, it is interesting to note that the Mac Pro’s current design first hit the market in the form of the Power Mac G5 in mid-2003. Nearly eight years after the Mac Pro’s current design debuted, Apple is toying with a re-designed version of the product."

The basic exterior design of the MacBook Pro goes back to the Titanium PowerBook in early 2001, and the MacBook's basic exterior design goes back to the iBook re-design in May 2001.

Heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

More slightly OT, but for what it's worth, I was chatting just before NAB on the phone with Phil Hodgetts (Intelligent Assistance )- who knows a thing or two about FCP hardware. He was recounting his impressions of what Thunderbolt truly means and suggested that while the first iteration (copper) of TB "merely" makes around a 10 fold increase in exterior connectivity bandwidth - the planned second implementation (copper plus optical) and even more so, the THIRD planned implementation (optical only) are designed to push those speeds up to something on the order of 100 times the current data flow.

Imagine, he said, taking a group of low cost Mac Mini's each with a few core processers, and with simple Thunderbold connectivity - creating something "plug and play" that functions precisely like a "mini-supercomputer" with Grand Central "traffic copping" work to 20, 30, or even 100 processors in your suite. Suddenly, computer performance could reach currently unimaginably levels of performance.

When you eliminate the bottlenecks of shoveling data through inefficient busses and rather have a viable ULTRA high speed plumbing system distributing data "core to core" — the entire computing GAME changes.

I came away from that chat with a new appreciation for just how game changing the Apple TB strategy might turn out to be to the future of Mac computing.

For what it's worth.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Bill, this is exactly why I think Final Cut Server is being "rethought" as well.

A device like Telestream Pipeline captures video and communicates via IP over Gigabit Ethernet to a server or FCP and Final Cut Pro can start editing a tape or live camera feed while it's still coming in.

Given that FCPX is going to be able to edit while background file ingest, it may be extended to ingest in general. Imagine what you could do with Thunderbolt on a server. Imagine several FCPX stations editing a multi-camera shoot while the tapes (or even the live camera feeds) are coming in.

On the flip side think of the distributive rendering capabilities with a bunch of those MacMinis via Thunderbolt pipes.

Philip Hodgetts is pretty good at understanding Final Cut's development thinking.

It's exactly the kind of conversation you had with him that leads me to believe there's something in the works regarding FCPX and FC Server "X" in some fashion. We might be a year away from it given that Thunderbolt really has to come out for the entire line, but it looks possible and sensible given Philip's comments.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

my last experience with Final Cut Pro was in a video production class about a year and half ago. Would it help me to download iMovie 11 and practice with this?

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I think it could. People who use FCP likely don't use iMovie at all so know little about it & its functionality has come on in leaps & bounds in the last few years. I thought that FCP could really benefit from adopting the Event Browser & Precision Editor amongst other features of iMovie & from the look of FCP X that is exactly what they have done. It's still a very consumer oriented application though that mixes some clever & sophisticated editing functionality with some awfully cheesy templates & other features.

Ken Stone has a good review of the previous version iMovie '09 which highlights the main neat features iMovie 09

iMove only costs $14.99 from the App Store so it must be worth a whirl.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I think there are a few similarities between iMovie and FCP X, but I think if you've been using FCP 1-7, you might be better off when ver. X comes out.

By the way, this new Final Cut Pro/Avid commercial should put the debate to rest:


heath

Well, I'm one. I don't even own any games.

I have FCS3 on the Mac side and Sony Vegas Pro 10 on the windows side, because I have clients who prefer one over the other for various reasons. Apple made it possible for me to do that on one machine. And now that's I've been on Apple hardware for three years, I'm never going back. I have not had to have my computer go into the shop since I switched. Seems like my PCs were always in the shop for something.

Anyway, I admit I prefer to work in Sony Vegas over working in FCS. But this new version looks like it just might change my preference.

Time will tell.

I've done that, because Vegas' titling is... weak. I've also used motion to create graphics, then put those on a Vegas timeline. It's kind of like Democrats and Republicans getting along.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Charles, I'm the same as you.

I always preferred the Vegas interface to FCP, I found it to be much more streamlined and fast.
I was always able to capture/edit/encode faster on Vegas than FCS. But I greatly preferred OSX to Windows.

As a matter of fact I made the jump to OSX, when Microsoft introduced Vista, which was a huge memory and resource hog.

Now, with the upcoming preview and release of FCPX, I might finally have the OS and NLE workflow that I love to work in. If this is so, then Windows could very well likely go away forever on my MACs.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

shipping in June... would be nice to know a date, I would like to be able to plan for a couple of days to test drive it before using it in a real project.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Unfortunately, Apple doesn't offer demos on their software. I think MobileMe and iWork are/were available once as a demo. I'm guessing we'll see a release date towards the end of June, if not June 30.

Heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I think Apple wants a bit of wiggle room since it's still in beta although the beta they showed was actually from February.

I have a hunch that WWDC in early June might bring us a clearer picture since I think Apple will have some focus on Lion an specifically AV foundation which is what FCPX is built on.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

The other option is to get a little hands-on time at an Apple Store. One advantage is that it's likely someone will be there to answer questions, too.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I can dedicate one edit station to testing, but would have loved to be able to plan it. I am very eager to get my hands on this new version, I have been waiting for a while, my local dealer has made me very attractive offers to switch to Media Composer 5, but I have been using FCP since version 1.5 it would kind of feel like breaking up...

But it is probably best to wait until version X.1 or so to upgrade. With this many new features, I expect a few bugs. It just happened with Telestream Episode which I had been using for years and faithfully upgraded to Version 6 only to find out that there were no audio-only conversion settings, after assuming I am stupid and contacting support they basically told me "oops, you are right - ehhm - our engineers forgot - sorry about that - let us send you the settings..." which they promptly did. (I apologize for getting off topic - but it still baffles me) I have gone back to Episode 5 for a bunch of other reasons.

Anyway I always test upgrades for a few days, run some projects on them that are small enough that I could rebuild on my tested and running system. Guess I will just wait, waited long enough already, a couple of months more won't make such a big difference anymore. I will keep following the forums and see how it works for everyone.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I didn't want to jump in on FCP 1.0 until a big update came down and they fixed any potential bugs, but I had so many problems with Premiere 5.1 and DV, that I switched anyway to FCP 1.0. I had no major problems cutting on it, but I can't remember whether I did or not. I may have had to cut my feature on two different timelines... It's been a while. I do know I "lost" all my internal hard drives on the desktop when I upgraded to OS 8.6, but a friend helped me locate them again.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

After fumbling through Final Cut's numerous bugs, audio glitches and generally slow, clunky interface, I've been wondering why the hell they haven't been innovative with such a widely used software.

Well now that innovation is here! So. Excited! I'm mostly excited about the speed, time-saving automation and what is hopefully a lightning responsive interface on capable hardware.

I hope this truly helps bridge the gap for the average person who knows little about video editing, with a $300 price point. May they painlessly see their ideas produced well and uploaded to youtube. Professional editors should not be threatened, as our value and skill lies not in using software, but rather the decisions made before using that software and which buttons to push inside of it.

If anything, Final Cut X may help clear out some demand for event coverage, weddings, basic web videos, etc.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I'll echo that... an editor's talents lie not in his or her NLE of choice, but in their talents.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Here's an interesting thing to note... Apple has hired the inventor of the THX sound system:

http://www.dvinfo.net/forum/digital-...ml#post1645812

As I said in that link, I'm curious if he'll be doing something cool with Logic Studio and Soundtrack Pro, in addition to hardware (better audio from a Mac)?

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

AppleInsider | Images claim to show Apple's Motion 5, Final Cut Pro X

Alleged new images from Motion 5 and FCP X; plus, the latest rumors point to Color as being part of either Motion 5 or FCP X. I'd love to see everything be all-in-one, but I think we'll at least see two apps, FCP X and Motion 5, with maybe Motion getting Color and FCP getting Soundtrack and a better Share function combining DVD Studio Pro.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Should be out next week, two weeks tops. When Apple leaks these "rumor" things, they're usually pretty close to the release date.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I wouldn't put it past Apple to release it on June 30, but I'd love to see something next week! If this were Twitter, I'd hashtag: #excited.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I've got a newly formatted MacBook Pro and a bottle of champagne for when that day comes.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

On the apple website it says that Lion will come out in July. Why would they release a major upgrade to FCS just a few weeks before? would it not make sense to first upgrade the OS and then the application?

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I do see your point, Oliver, though I haven't had issues with upgrading my OS after installing a new version of FCP, though I always back up my files before doing any sort of major OS X upgrade. Many, many years ago (early 2000), I upgraded OS 8.5 to 8.6, and one of my Power Mac G3's internal hard drives, installed for editing, disappeared off the desktop. I got it back, but wow, that was nerve-wracking.

Backup before you upgrade.

Heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

ps-Final Cut Studio (v. 3) shipped July 30, 2009, while Snow Leopard shipped August 28, 2009, according to Amazon. However, both FCP 7 and S.L. were more incremental updates, though SL did have some nice under-the-hood improvements.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Lion is a download only release so you will have to install Snow Leopard first anyway. With this in mind, a clean system install is going to be a long process. I guess I will just update my Snow Leopard installation (I receive my new 27" iMac i7 next week) and just update to Lion straight away.

I still hope you can make a bootable Lion DVD so you can skip the Snow Leopard install in the future.

New MacBook Air is rumored to launch wednesday, so maybe Final Cut Pro X will launch along with it. There are also rumors the Mac Pro is about to receive an update... so it wouldn't surprise me if they release Final Cut Pro X with that product (if it launches in June).

Let's wait and see... we've waited so long already, these few days don't matter.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I'm guessing you need Snow Leopard to install Lion because Lion won't be a large file and will be missing certain things, making it easy to install. Just the same as I bet you'll need Final Cut Studio 3 to install FCP X, because of loops, etc.

Heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Lion is a full 4GB download much the same size as the Snow Leopard. You can apparently create a bootable disk from the download. FCP X is a brand new application there won't be any requirement to already have FCS 3 else what would all the new purchasers who have never had Final Cut before do.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

I would have to assume that FCP X will come complete, with no prior FCP Studio 3 installation required or piggybacked.

However, the new software may not come with many loops... so owners of FCP Studio (1,2,3)... will likely have a distinct advantage in available loops.

With the new App store format I can easily see Apple offering ala carte loop packs, similar to Digital Juice.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Nigel, thanks for the clarification.

James, I remember hearing that you could still install LiveType on your Mac even though Apple dropped it from FCS 3, pushing users to Motion.

heath

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

More details sneaking out, mostly on color grading. Looks like Color as an app is toast

More Final Cut Pro X Screenshots Leak Ahead of Release - Mac Rumors

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Of course you could. And it's very possible that Final Cut Studio users may still find some functionality in the studio applications even with Final Cut Pro X installed. To exactly what degree, we'll have to wait and see.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

More screenshots have been added:
http://twitpic.com/photos/MortGoldman2
No XML import (judging from the screenshots)

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

Intriguingly the window in the disk burning screenshot is titled "Create a Blu-ray disc from your project." & the drop down menu is selecting from "MATSHITA DVD-R UJ-875 (AVCHD)" OR "Hard drive (Blu-ray)". Presumably without a Blu-ray drive in your Mac it creates an image of a Blu-ray disc.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

And it looks to be the same incredibly simple menu system that the current version creates. At this point, if they got rid of the ugly black bar at the bottom of the menu screen, I'd be satisfied with this.

Not seeing any "capture" options under import from camera either.

Re: Thoughts on new FCP X Sneak Peek
 

About the when... forgot to mention that AVID is offering Mediacomposer to FCP users for 995 $... until June 17th. Maybe they know that a crossgrade won't be very attractive after FCP comes out on the 18th?
To be honest... I am tempted. There are some freelancers whose work I like who work with AVID and not FCP.

oh - the link: http://www.avid.com/US/specialoffers/fcppromotion