Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now...

William Hohauser · September 21st, 2011, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim Giberti

I'd be interested to hear your experience William.
I have to stick with FCP 7 till I get through my schedule and I don't want to get into X until I know I can do it justice.
It sounds a lot more stable already and hopefully better when I can really work with it.

I'll test it as soon as either software update or the App Store actually lists the FCPX update. I have already downloaded the Compressor and Motion updates.

William Hohauser · September 21st, 2011, 09:05 PM

For some reason, the update to FCPX came in as an install instead of an update. So I had to trash 10.0 before I could download 10.0.1 thru the App Store. Anyway, that worked.

I downloaded CatDV and tried to convert a simple ProRes edit that had about a dozen still frames & titles with a little slow motion in the course of the mostly hard edit project. CatDV was running in trial mode with a number of features disabled but it is not clear what they are or if they affect the XML abilities of the program. The "send to FCPX" feature launched X and the project loaded with a corresponding events folder. The first thing that went missing were all the still frames and slow motion clips which were replaced by gaps. The music tracks also disappeared but they along with the titles never showed up in the CatDV database in the first place. Since X handles still frames and titles differently I would not be surprised to have them go missing even if CatDV recognized them. What was a little more disturbing was the disappearance of all the overlay video tracks which had their sound lowered. The audio portions imported without the video.

So I ran a second test of just video clips and confirmed that any video outside track 1 will not make the crossover. Also split edits do not make it either although the clips will cross over with a hard edit.

At this moment, CatDV, as demonstrated by the demo version, is barely useful to get simple edits with the cuts and the media into FCPX. A lot of work would be needed to get any but the most basic edit back into shape. Now I will admit that this conclusion came from 20 minutes of experimenting and my CatDV skills are the result of that 20 minutes. If someone can explain how to do this correctly I would be grateful.

Somebody will make a lot of people happy if they can figure out how to get FCP7XML to FCPX-XML. Now that FCPX can export XML I'm sure an enterprising individual will read the files and figure out how to do it.

Matt Lawrence · September 21st, 2011, 09:16 PM

I've been using FCPX for a few weeks now and am really starting to like it, but not having automatic version backups is something that I miss from FCP7, and not just for recovering lost data. The Restore Project feature saved me a lot a work on more than a few occasions when needing to undo edits in projects that had already been saved. It was very handy.

That said, I've had a few crashes of FCPX so far and haven't lost anything. In fact, I was always surprised that changes that I made just seconds before the crash were there. But undoing the deletion of the entire project must have thrown the program for a loop.

As for backing up, I clone or update my entire scratch drive at the end of every day (I can't afford live redundancy) but even loosing an entire day's work is still no small matter. And it looks as though this is something that can happen, so all the backup lecturing seems to me a bit beside the point. The lack of versioned backups does to me feel like a loss, and apparently somewhat of a danger. But it's one I can live with for a new editing paradigm that I'm really starting to like. And hopefully Apple will iron out the bugs in future versions.

Bill Davis · September 28th, 2011, 03:49 PM

If I was obsessed with re-creating 7's Autosave function, why not just set up an Automator function to copy, rename and "move to a new drive" a copy of one or more of your Event Libraries at pre-set intervals?

Unless you're using "import media" in every project, wouldn't that functionally do exactly the same thing?

Heck, if you have oodles of drive space available do it WITH embedded media. Big assed files, but lots and lots of mistake protection.

Just thinking out loud.

Bart Walczak · September 29th, 2011, 06:19 AM

Guys, I think you're missing the point.

Yes, there are workarounds - Time Machine, backup watch folders, etc. But why the heck should we even be discussing them? It's such a basic functionality. Setting up a workaround for a simple save operation feels really wrong (at least to me). Remind me of the times when undo function was absent from word processors.

Apple, please bring back some control to the hands of a user. A machine will not outsmart a human being for a few more years at least.

Mikko Topponen · October 10th, 2011, 04:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Hsiung

I've lost minor edits in FCP X too and I too bought adobe premiere, but despite autosave being turned on in premiere pro, I lost major work when it crashed.

There was no saves in the auto-save folder of premiere??

Arnie Schlissel · October 10th, 2011, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bart Walczak

Guys, I think you're missing the point.

Yes, there are workarounds - Time Machine, backup watch folders, etc. But why the heck should we even be discussing them? It's such a basic functionality. Setting up a workaround for a simple save operation feels really wrong (at least to me). Remind me of the times when undo function was absent from word processors.

Apple, please bring back some control to the hands of a user. A machine will not outsmart a human being for a few more years at least.

My client's pay me to get the work done, not Apple. If a day's work gets lost, it's simply my fault, even when if it's not. If I don't have a practical backup solution in place, then I shouldn't be doing business with paying clients.

Client's don't care about your software's save & autosave features, they're not paying the software maker, they're paying YOU. If someone I dealt with told me that they lost a day's worth of work for any reason other than a fire, flood, earthquake or volcano, they'd no longer be my vendor. That's the end of the argument.

Bart Walczak · October 11th, 2011, 12:54 PM

This is of course true from the client point of view. It does not lessen the annoyance of a problem, nor does it absolve the software developer from releasing an unstable product, and making certain promises that turned out to be hollow.

And while client is most likely not interested in your safety measures, YOU are most likely interested in the tools that will provide you the optimal environment possible in terms of safety, productivity, and creativity. So far the discussion revolves around potential workarounds (various backup solutions), but also on what features should the software itself have to make one's life easier. Turning it into a blame game (it's your fault, no it's Apple's fault) does not bring us to any sensible conclusion.

Of course, the blame game is not the point here. The disappointment is. This thread started with a statement by the author, that annoyances of the software made him decide on a different tool. And with that I sympathize. There is a certain amount of limitations and workarounds that each tool requires, but some require more, and other less, and nothing annoys more than having one's creative process interrupted by glitches, crashes, and other mundane problems. When annoyances are too overwhelming, perhaps it is time to select a different tool. That's all.

Jim Giberti · October 15th, 2011, 10:29 AM

Not to be argumentative or defend the new constant save feature vs autosave but anyone who loses a days worth of work is missing something. THe comment about not being able to afford live redundancy doesn't make sense to me. The same drive you're using to for daily backup can give you regular backups automatically with Time Machine and it's sitting right there on the Mac you're using.

September 21st, 2011, 09:05 PM	#32
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Re: Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now... For some reason, the update to FCPX came in as an install instead of an update. So I had to trash 10.0 before I could download 10.0.1 thru the App Store. Anyway, that worked. I downloaded CatDV and tried to convert a simple ProRes edit that had about a dozen still frames & titles with a little slow motion in the course of the mostly hard edit project. CatDV was running in trial mode with a number of features disabled but it is not clear what they are or if they affect the XML abilities of the program. The "send to FCPX" feature launched X and the project loaded with a corresponding events folder. The first thing that went missing were all the still frames and slow motion clips which were replaced by gaps. The music tracks also disappeared but they along with the titles never showed up in the CatDV database in the first place. Since X handles still frames and titles differently I would not be surprised to have them go missing even if CatDV recognized them. What was a little more disturbing was the disappearance of all the overlay video tracks which had their sound lowered. The audio portions imported without the video. So I ran a second test of just video clips and confirmed that any video outside track 1 will not make the crossover. Also split edits do not make it either although the clips will cross over with a hard edit. At this moment, CatDV, as demonstrated by the demo version, is barely useful to get simple edits with the cuts and the media into FCPX. A lot of work would be needed to get any but the most basic edit back into shape. Now I will admit that this conclusion came from 20 minutes of experimenting and my CatDV skills are the result of that 20 minutes. If someone can explain how to do this correctly I would be grateful. Somebody will make a lot of people happy if they can figure out how to get FCP7XML to FCPX-XML. Now that FCPX can export XML I'm sure an enterprising individual will read the files and figure out how to do it. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

September 21st, 2011, 09:16 PM	#33
Matt Lawrence Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Madison, WI Posts: 69	Re: Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now... I've been using FCPX for a few weeks now and am really starting to like it, but not having automatic version backups is something that I miss from FCP7, and not just for recovering lost data. The Restore Project feature saved me a lot a work on more than a few occasions when needing to undo edits in projects that had already been saved. It was very handy. That said, I've had a few crashes of FCPX so far and haven't lost anything. In fact, I was always surprised that changes that I made just seconds before the crash were there. But undoing the deletion of the entire project must have thrown the program for a loop. As for backing up, I clone or update my entire scratch drive at the end of every day (I can't afford live redundancy) but even loosing an entire day's work is still no small matter. And it looks as though this is something that can happen, so all the backup lecturing seems to me a bit beside the point. The lack of versioned backups does to me feel like a loss, and apparently somewhat of a danger. But it's one I can live with for a new editing paradigm that I'm really starting to like. And hopefully Apple will iron out the bugs in future versions.

September 28th, 2011, 03:49 PM	#34
Bill Davis Trustee Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ 85260 Posts: 1,538	Re: Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now... If I was obsessed with re-creating 7's Autosave function, why not just set up an Automator function to copy, rename and "move to a new drive" a copy of one or more of your Event Libraries at pre-set intervals? Unless you're using "import media" in every project, wouldn't that functionally do exactly the same thing? Heck, if you have oodles of drive space available do it WITH embedded media. Big assed files, but lots and lots of mistake protection. Just thinking out loud. __________________ Classroom editing instructor? Check out www.starteditingnow.com Turnkey editor training content including licensed training footage for classroom use.

September 29th, 2011, 06:19 AM	#35
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now... Guys, I think you're missing the point. Yes, there are workarounds - Time Machine, backup watch folders, etc. But why the heck should we even be discussing them? It's such a basic functionality. Setting up a workaround for a simple save operation feels really wrong (at least to me). Remind me of the times when undo function was absent from word processors. Apple, please bring back some control to the hands of a user. A machine will not outsmart a human being for a few more years at least. __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

October 11th, 2011, 12:54 PM	#38
Bart Walczak Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Warsaw/Poland Posts: 716	Re: Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now... This is of course true from the client point of view. It does not lessen the annoyance of a problem, nor does it absolve the software developer from releasing an unstable product, and making certain promises that turned out to be hollow. And while client is most likely not interested in your safety measures, YOU are most likely interested in the tools that will provide you the optimal environment possible in terms of safety, productivity, and creativity. So far the discussion revolves around potential workarounds (various backup solutions), but also on what features should the software itself have to make one's life easier. Turning it into a blame game (it's your fault, no it's Apple's fault) does not bring us to any sensible conclusion. Of course, the blame game is not the point here. The disappointment is. This thread started with a statement by the author, that annoyances of the software made him decide on a different tool. And with that I sympathize. There is a certain amount of limitations and workarounds that each tool requires, but some require more, and other less, and nothing annoys more than having one's creative process interrupted by glitches, crashes, and other mundane problems. When annoyances are too overwhelming, perhaps it is time to select a different tool. That's all. __________________ Creative Impatience - The Solace of Simple Solutions. A few useful plugins for Adobe users, and my remarks on the tools and the craft in general.

October 15th, 2011, 10:29 AM	#39
Jim Giberti Major Player Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Bethel, VT Posts: 824	Re: Saying goodbye to FCP X...for now... Not to be argumentative or defend the new constant save feature vs autosave but anyone who loses a days worth of work is missing something. THe comment about not being able to afford live redundancy doesn't make sense to me. The same drive you're using to for daily backup can give you regular backups automatically with Time Machine and it's sitting right there on the Mac you're using.