Worth upgrading to Snow Leopard for FC?

Nick Gordon · September 2nd, 2009, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Leffler

Yes, but will this fix the Express Card problem?

Can't answer that, I'm afraid. If my income depended on it, I'd probably hold back for a while

Chris Leffler · September 2nd, 2009, 01:19 PM

Also, if I do this fresh install will I lose my Boot Camp? I am assuming the answer is yes because I would be erasing the whole drive, which Boot Camp takes up a small portion.

I don't do projects for a living. It is more a hobby for me to do on the weekends when I am in school. However, I can not complain about the money. Right now I don't have any projects and probably wont have any more for at least another month. The only thing I am worried about is not loosing my school files which are also on my machine. Since, I do not have to worry about loosing those maybe I will try this. MAYBE being the key word in that sentence.

Nick Gordon · September 2nd, 2009, 01:35 PM

I don't use Bootcamp (I use Parallels), but the way I'd go would be to add to my process a step in which I'd boot to Windows and back up my Windows drive using something like Acronis TrueImage

The way to allay your fears is to have backups :)

Robert Lane · September 3rd, 2009, 02:00 PM

I'm about to test this very theory: Whether or not the BC partition goes away during the install/migration process. Logic says "no" because you're only dealing with the Mac OSX partition, not the NTFS for Windows BUT as I say I'm about to find out.

I'm also going to find out if in fact a clean install of SL and transfer of previous OS will preserve the EC34 drivers or, if a reinstall of those drivers will work. I'm about to find out and will report back later today.

Chris Leffler · September 3rd, 2009, 03:10 PM

I am looking forward to hearing your findings!!

Robert Lane · September 3rd, 2009, 06:51 PM

The transfer over to SL with all apps and external drives talking on the MBP works. Follow the steps laid out by Nick earlier, it's a spot-on method.

WARNING: Before you follow that path, make SURE you make an image of your OS prior to doing this step - see the sticky I posted in this category. Although using CCC is laid out clearly the major issue with making the clone is that the OS it's cloning is "hot" meaning you're booted from it. If something were to go wrong during the clone process such as power or hardware failure then you'd potentially lose both the original and cloned OS to corruption. Making an image first will give you another safety net - just in case.

Results:

1. The Seritek EC34 adapter did not in fact work however Seritek has released SL compatible drivers just today; installed the drivers and the card and external drives work perfectly.

2. BootCamp/Windows partition works flawlessly, again because you're not making any changes to the Windows partition, only the Mac OS.

3. There are some noticeable speed increases in boot-up, finder operations, Safari launches (geez, Safari is *screaming* fast now!) and some applications.

4. FCS2 operates OK however I have not tested high-level functions such as renders or applying FxPlug filters.

5. Production Premium CS4 also works just fine including renders and filters and Photoshop actions. Load times are noticeably faster - but not night-and-day different.

6. External HDD icons have changed and the data loading time is somewhat faster; previews of Quicktime and JPEG files are MUCH faster, almost like I got a speed bump in CPU clock cycles.

More notes:

- DiskWarrior 4.2 is out; customers of version 4.0-4.1.1 can download a FREE updater - and it too works flawlessly as does booting from the new 4.2 disc. HIGHLY RECOMMEND that any Mac user purchase a copy of DW.

- Joel has not yet released SL compatible Onyx (a highly recommended maintenance tool) but it's just around the corner - maybe just days.

In short the plethora of problems that we initially saw and have seen reported all seem to be tied to the UPGRADE path rather than clean install. The install path laid out by Nick is a hybrid "clean install"; by using the "transfer data from other Mac" option in the install process it simulates exactly what would happen if you installed all your apps one-by-one saving hours of time, thus tricking the system into thinking it's all fresh. This SHOULD take care of the majority of reported problems with FCP and Compressor users. As I say, I have not tested that deeply yet.

I also expect that Panasonic, Sony and other ExpressCard 34 manufacturers will be supplying SL-compatible drivers very soon now that the new OS has been in the field.

Floris van Eck · September 4th, 2009, 01:38 AM

I still advise everyone to wait till OS X 10.6.2.

Changing to a new OS on your workstations (which are running a stable and powerful OS already) is just not very smart in my opinion.

It takes a while until all applications are updated, patches are released and conflicts are resolved. Most of us are also running the more memory and CPU hungry applications which can result in problems when using i.e. plug-ins.

That's why most companies are like one version of an OS behind consumers. A workstation needs to be reliable and you have to make sure that everything works. Never change a winning system is a phrase I hear a lot around here. I think it is true. I rather spend my time shooting and editing instead of bug hunting for Apple and other software companies.

Tim Dashwood · September 4th, 2009, 04:49 AM

I've been reading this very interesting review on Snow Leopard. Here's just one page that is dedicated to Quicktime X and how it works.
Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard: the Ars Technica review - Ars Technica

It is interesting to note what he says about the development path of Quicktime and the fact that Final Cut Studio is "one of the largest QuickTime-riddled (and Carbon-addled, to boot) code bases in the industry...Thus far, It remains stuck in 32-bit. To say that Apple is "highly motivated" to extend the capabilities of QuickTime X would be an understatement."

Peter Dunphy · September 4th, 2009, 12:52 PM

I'm halfway through editing a 50 minute piece on FCP 6.0.6 and have Snow Leopard and the new FCS sitting on my filing cabinet.

I suppose the consensus would be to stick with my stable system rather than experiment with a combined SL/new FCS fresh installation?

Robert Lane's posts in this thread are very well written and convincing and making me really think twice about taking the plunge.

Other advice I've read about doing a complete wipe of a hard drive (ensuring you have a successfully bootable clone first of all), installing SL and then installing the new FCS afresh seems to be the best bet - I think I'll wait until my project's completed and archived before attempting this. It's still so tempting, but I must resist! Stable and secure is better! Isn't it?

In particular, I'm dying to try out Motion 4. Oh well.

Chris Leffler · September 4th, 2009, 01:31 PM

In your case I would wait until your project is finished.

I noticed Robert that you said you have a eSATA card that works. Right now I used some cheap Rosewill eSATA ExpressCard. Do you suggest me getting this card you mentioned? The only thing holding me back is the $120 price.

Matt Davis · September 4th, 2009, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Dunphy

I suppose the consensus would be to stick with my stable system rather than experiment with a combined SL/new FCS fresh installation?

I'll stick my neck out here - I think, when you have finished your current project (and not before) and you have a day or two free, upgrading to FCS '3' will be a good move. But leave off the Snow Leopard for now.

I've been astonished with SoundTrack Pro, which has actually become stable enough to use and had some very annoying bugs taken out. Now Audacity and Twisted Wave can be waved goodbye. FCP's moving markers have been a godsend.

DVD Studio Pro is fine but hasn't been as crash free as the previous one.

But don't go for Snow Leopard yet. Too many odd things go pop, and you'll be wasting time trying to fix or work around things. For example, Episode 5.2.1 is supposedly fine for Snow Leopard, but I've got problems with the preview. I hoped some of the DVD Studio and Compressor ickyness would be cured by SL, but no. It's just not ready, and The QuickTime X player is more hindrance than help as there's no Cmd-J and it doesn't understand non-square pixels (didn't the last QT fix that?).

Luckily this is on a backup machine, so my main machine remains a fully functional unit.

You've bought Snow Leopard, Apple will count your purchase and tell developers about the huge base of Snow Leopard users, developers will update to Snow Leopard specific features, and then it will be safe to move up.

Floris van Eck · September 4th, 2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt Daviss

But don't go for Snow Leopard yet. Too many odd things go pop, and you'll be wasting time trying to fix or work around things.

That's what I am trying to say. 10.6.1 will fix many of those bugs but it will take time to fix everything. Expect a stable system around 10.6.2 or 10.6.3. If you think logically, it will take developers a month or two to fix everything.

So I guess I will be installing Snow Leopard around christmas.

Peter Dunphy · September 5th, 2009, 08:46 AM

Great advice all round there. Thanks guys.

No doubt however there will be those tempted to make the leap to SL and FCS3 halfway through their projects, which could prove a nightmare should bugs be encountered!

Nick Gordon · September 5th, 2009, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peter Dunphy

No doubt however there will be those tempted to make the leap to SL and FCS3 halfway through their projects, which could prove a nightmare should bugs be encountered!

We each find or on way to add some spice to our lives. For some it's white water rafting, free climbing or bungee jumping. For others, the thrill comes from carrying out a major software upgrade in the middle of a critical project :)

Dan Foster · September 5th, 2009, 01:41 PM

Since odds are good that some folks here has Sonnet cards, this might be handy:

Sonnet - Support - Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Compatibility Matrix

September 3rd, 2009, 02:00 PM	#49
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Testing in progress I'm about to test this very theory: Whether or not the BC partition goes away during the install/migration process. Logic says "no" because you're only dealing with the Mac OSX partition, not the NTFS for Windows BUT as I say I'm about to find out. I'm also going to find out if in fact a clean install of SL and transfer of previous OS will preserve the EC34 drivers or, if a reinstall of those drivers will work. I'm about to find out and will report back later today. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

September 3rd, 2009, 06:51 PM	#51
Robert Lane Go Go Godzilla Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Scottsdale, AZ USA Posts: 2,788 Images: 15	Success The transfer over to SL with all apps and external drives talking on the MBP works. Follow the steps laid out by Nick earlier, it's a spot-on method. WARNING: Before you follow that path, make SURE you make an image of your OS prior to doing this step - see the sticky I posted in this category. Although using CCC is laid out clearly the major issue with making the clone is that the OS it's cloning is "hot" meaning you're booted from it. If something were to go wrong during the clone process such as power or hardware failure then you'd potentially lose both the original and cloned OS to corruption. Making an image first will give you another safety net - just in case. Results: 1. The Seritek EC34 adapter did not in fact work however Seritek has released SL compatible drivers just today; installed the drivers and the card and external drives work perfectly. 2. BootCamp/Windows partition works flawlessly, again because you're not making any changes to the Windows partition, only the Mac OS. 3. There are some noticeable speed increases in boot-up, finder operations, Safari launches (geez, Safari is screaming fast now!) and some applications. 4. FCS2 operates OK however I have not tested high-level functions such as renders or applying FxPlug filters. 5. Production Premium CS4 also works just fine including renders and filters and Photoshop actions. Load times are noticeably faster - but not night-and-day different. 6. External HDD icons have changed and the data loading time is somewhat faster; previews of Quicktime and JPEG files are MUCH faster, almost like I got a speed bump in CPU clock cycles. More notes: - DiskWarrior 4.2 is out; customers of version 4.0-4.1.1 can download a FREE updater - and it too works flawlessly as does booting from the new 4.2 disc. HIGHLY RECOMMEND that any Mac user purchase a copy of DW. - Joel has not yet released SL compatible Onyx (a highly recommended maintenance tool) but it's just around the corner - maybe just days. In short the plethora of problems that we initially saw and have seen reported all seem to be tied to the UPGRADE path rather than clean install. The install path laid out by Nick is a hybrid "clean install"; by using the "transfer data from other Mac" option in the install process it simulates exactly what would happen if you installed all your apps one-by-one saving hours of time, thus tricking the system into thinking it's all fresh. This SHOULD take care of the majority of reported problems with FCP and Compressor users. As I say, I have not tested that deeply yet. I also expect that Panasonic, Sony and other ExpressCard 34 manufacturers will be supplying SL-compatible drivers very soon now that the new OS has been in the field. __________________ Robert Lane Producer/Creator - Bike Pilots TV

September 4th, 2009, 04:49 AM	#53
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	I've been reading this very interesting review on Snow Leopard. Here's just one page that is dedicated to Quicktime X and how it works. Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard: the Ars Technica review - Ars Technica It is interesting to note what he says about the development path of Quicktime and the fact that Final Cut Studio is "one of the largest QuickTime-riddled (and Carbon-addled, to boot) code bases in the industry...Thus far, It remains stuck in 32-bit. To say that Apple is "highly motivated" to extend the capabilities of QuickTime X would be an understatement." __________________ Tim Dashwood

September 4th, 2009, 12:52 PM	#54
Peter Dunphy Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Belfast Northern Ireland Posts: 261	So Tempted I'm halfway through editing a 50 minute piece on FCP 6.0.6 and have Snow Leopard and the new FCS sitting on my filing cabinet. I suppose the consensus would be to stick with my stable system rather than experiment with a combined SL/new FCS fresh installation? Robert Lane's posts in this thread are very well written and convincing and making me really think twice about taking the plunge. Other advice I've read about doing a complete wipe of a hard drive (ensuring you have a successfully bootable clone first of all), installing SL and then installing the new FCS afresh seems to be the best bet - I think I'll wait until my project's completed and archived before attempting this. It's still so tempting, but I must resist! Stable and secure is better! Isn't it? In particular, I'm dying to try out Motion 4. Oh well.

September 5th, 2009, 01:41 PM	#60
Dan Foster Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: New York Posts: 26	Sonnet Snow Leopard compatibility info Since odds are good that some folks here has Sonnet cards, this might be handy: Sonnet - Support - Mac OS X 10.6 Snow Leopard Compatibility Matrix

September 2nd, 2009, 01:19 PM	#47
Chris Leffler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wescosville, PA Posts: 90	Also, if I do this fresh install will I lose my Boot Camp? I am assuming the answer is yes because I would be erasing the whole drive, which Boot Camp takes up a small portion. I don't do projects for a living. It is more a hobby for me to do on the weekends when I am in school. However, I can not complain about the money. Right now I don't have any projects and probably wont have any more for at least another month. The only thing I am worried about is not loosing my school files which are also on my machine. Since, I do not have to worry about loosing those maybe I will try this. MAYBE being the key word in that sentence.

September 2nd, 2009, 01:35 PM	#48
Nick Gordon Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Milton Keynes, UK Posts: 166	I don't use Bootcamp (I use Parallels), but the way I'd go would be to add to my process a step in which I'd boot to Windows and back up my Windows drive using something like Acronis TrueImage The way to allay your fears is to have backups :)

September 3rd, 2009, 03:10 PM	#50
Chris Leffler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wescosville, PA Posts: 90	I am looking forward to hearing your findings!!

September 4th, 2009, 01:38 AM	#52
Floris van Eck Major Player Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: The Netherlands Posts: 993	I still advise everyone to wait till OS X 10.6.2. Changing to a new OS on your workstations (which are running a stable and powerful OS already) is just not very smart in my opinion. It takes a while until all applications are updated, patches are released and conflicts are resolved. Most of us are also running the more memory and CPU hungry applications which can result in problems when using i.e. plug-ins. That's why most companies are like one version of an OS behind consumers. A workstation needs to be reliable and you have to make sure that everything works. Never change a winning system is a phrase I hear a lot around here. I think it is true. I rather spend my time shooting and editing instead of bug hunting for Apple and other software companies.

September 4th, 2009, 01:31 PM	#55
Chris Leffler Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Wescosville, PA Posts: 90	In your case I would wait until your project is finished. I noticed Robert that you said you have a eSATA card that works. Right now I used some cheap Rosewill eSATA ExpressCard. Do you suggest me getting this card you mentioned? The only thing holding me back is the $120 price.

September 5th, 2009, 08:46 AM	#58
Peter Dunphy Major Player Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Belfast Northern Ireland Posts: 261	Great advice all round there. Thanks guys. No doubt however there will be those tempted to make the leap to SL and FCS3 halfway through their projects, which could prove a nightmare should bugs be encountered!