Vimeo & Veoh HD Playback - Why no better?

Giroud Francois · April 8th, 2008, 05:06 AM

there is no excuse for bad video.
look here
http://www.premiereprise.fr/cliptya/cliptya.mov

Josh Chesarek · April 8th, 2008, 06:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Giroud Francois

there is no excuse for bad video.
look here
http://www.premiereprise.fr/cliptya/cliptya.mov

Nice, but the typical user will have to wait over a minute to watch it. That does not feed the "I want it now generation" You could put that to h264 .mp4 and play it via the flash player though at the same quality and they would have to buffer for a few seconds though.

Andy Wilkinson · April 8th, 2008, 07:06 AM

Actually, I waited 2 minutes on my 3 year old work laptop and gave up thinking the link might be dead (I have a superfast ADSL connection by the way.) Maybe I'm almost part of that generation then ;=) I'll try it on my fast editing PC once it's free from rendering!

Andy Wilkinson · April 8th, 2008, 10:36 AM

Just as a further update, a friend of mine took one of my 2min 20 sec videos (1280x720p) and converted it Flash and then uploaded that to his own (currently still private) website so we could view this test.

Playback was really nice, almost faultless!

Then he uploaded the very same file to Vimeo for me (again as a test, it's still private/not viewable by anyone other than we two.) He had to create a .mov but then the file we now have on Vimeo got "converted" to a Std Def format in their Flash conversion and it now plays really badly, just like all the others with stuttering/pausing....(his word was it has been "Bug#4&4d" by Vimeo - I tend to agree!)

Warren Kawamoto · April 8th, 2008, 06:44 PM

I too have been experimenting with Vimeo and this is how I make non-stuttering videos.

1. Encode your 1280x720p video to H.264, 2000 kilobytes per sec, at 15 FRAMES PER SECOND
2. Upload to Vimeo.

The video plays back perfectly without any pauses, at the expense of a slower frame rate.

This test was edited in slomo so it appears jittery.
http://vimeo.com/854132

I haven't tried encoding at a higher bitrate yet, maybe quality will be better.

Andy Wilkinson · April 9th, 2008, 02:33 AM

Thanks Warren. I'll give it a go.

Richard Gooderick · April 9th, 2008, 03:11 AM

I don't understand what all the fuss is about.
My films on Vimeo play back fine on my MacBook unless the local network is congested.
Right now, 9.30 am, Andy's video and my own videos stutter. Last night my films were playing fine.
I've been using Vimeo to provide previews of the films I am making to people involved in production. Most people find it works fine. Not everyone, but most.

Aric Mannion · April 13th, 2008, 12:07 PM

I just uploaded a video successfully to vimeo, and watched it in vimeo. The next day it was gone as if it never existed. So I went to the forum to post a new topic asking why. When I clicked post it went to the forum and didn't even post my question. It's so frustrating, it seems to be working but then nothing happens!

Andy Wilkinson · April 13th, 2008, 02:47 PM

Aric,

there are a LOT of bugs on the Vimeo website. I hear others complain about them (personally to me and on Forums) and I see many strange happenings...sometimes my videos "disappear" at various stages of uploading or conversion. I then repeat the whole process and it's fine.

I suspect (but don't honestly know) that the've just been overwhelmed with so may people joining over the last 2 months since Stage 6 went away (especially folks like me who like to post/watch HD.)

With a bit of care and some correct management Vimeo's got the potential to become a really great place - but only time will tell. Mind you, as someone correctly reminded me of a while back, it's absolutely free so you can't knock it too much!

Tripp Woelfel · April 15th, 2008, 08:47 AM

Andy... Vimeo's not perfect but I was playing around last night for about an hour and got stutter-free playback of HD files nearly all those I viewed. Now this was on a dual core 3.0gHz box on a 52" TV so there was lots of horsepower to process the files.

I've also used a 2.5 year old 1.99gHz laptop without problems as well so I'm at a loss to replicate your issue.

Until recently, Vimeo only supported 24fps and would unceremoniously drop six frames a second out of 30fps video which turns it all to rubbish. It would probably also extract a frame out of 25fps footage. Not as bad, but still noticeable.

Once I figured this out (takes me a while as I'm not so bright) I was quite happy with the results. You can check them out here: vimeo.com/whitemountains and judge for yourself.

I have heard from some people that the new 30fps files are difficult for some to play on all but the newest PCs.

Vimeo's still a work in progress, chasing the moving technology target. They're living on the bleeding edge but overall have done a nice job so far IMHO.

Andy Wilkinson · April 18th, 2008, 02:57 AM

Nice HD video! (full link below for others)...unfortunately I still see constant stepping in the lovely slow pans, even on my 18 month old high spec core duo laptop with high speed BT Broadband ADSL connection...running at 7MBps this morning... and 54 MBs wireless connection to my Netgear router...I guess my hardware is just not up to it!!!!

Edit: I should add that all my PC's are XP SP2, mostly less than 4 years old, most have extra RAM etc. and are fully up to date with the very latest Flash 9. Some have mid/high perfomance graphics cards (at the time they were bought) and these have very latest drivers. Also, when I view HD videos I make sure my wife/kids are not also using the house wifi/ADSL connection too!

So I really don't know what else to try.

http://www.vimeo.com/whitemountains

Tripp Woelfel · April 18th, 2008, 07:59 AM

Thanks Andy!

Ted Belben · April 19th, 2008, 08:01 PM

Since this is my first post to this forum, it may take me a couple of tries before I get the linking correct if it doesn't follow standard convention.

Hey Andy, I saw this thread and thought I may offer a couple of suggestions.

In their effort to optimize file size and format for streaming, both Vimeo and Veoh and most of the other streaming hosts compress videos using a couple different flash formats.

It is my understanding that Stage6 streamed original DivX content. That included the DivX codec in both the DivX and avi containers.

There is a new startup site, Hostmedia.us that is intent on becoming a Stage6 replacement.

Since they are still a fledgling site, streaming is slow and there are several bugs. Here's a brief summary:

• Currently their site is considered pre-alpha. I expect it will move quickly to beta as funding becomes available.
• They are currently upgrading the website to provide a more professional interface, likely more Stage6 appearance, but that's speculation on my part.
• They are planning to upgrade their servers to provide better streaming
• Justin is requesting donations to launch accelerate the development process

On the positive:

• Once the video has substantially streamed to your computer, quality is every bit as good as what one uploaded without conversion losses
• DivX only is streamed.
• No annoying advertisements
• No spyware.
• The site had grown to approx 600 videos in just about one month, with many HD's. And this is with limited streaming capabilities, I expect using an http web server rather than a streaming server.

There's another DivX hosting site I can think of, however they get their revenue from unscrupulous advertisers and I wouldn't recommend it for this reason as it wakes up my antispyware each time I visit. This is not the case with HostMedia.us

If you prefer to have your original content quality streamed, suggest to check out the site, keep an eye on progress, try a couple of vids and if you like it, join and participate any way you can. Technical support, advice, etc. is always welcome. Justin is open to suggestions.

By the way, they plan to change their domain name from HostMedia.us to another when they launch their new interface.

Here are a couple of links. Check out the quality in full screen even though not all was uploaded in Hi Def (including a couple I uploaded to test quality):

http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=168

http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=498

http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=227
__________________________________

And the following is my test for hotlinking on this site since it is my first post. If it doesn't work, just ignore it. And if I can edit later, I will and make it more functional or just remove it. Three tests in one.

Air Show Demo

And to see if they allow HTML:

<a href="http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=168"> Air Show Demo - HostMedia.us</a>
_______________________

Edit: It appears HTML isn't permittted.

Andy Wilkinson · April 20th, 2008, 09:31 AM

Ted,

This is fantastic news. HD playback quality is absolutely superb, razor sharp and stutter free even on one of my old laptops! Vimeo can't match this quality AT ALL from what I've seen. The first link in particular is stunning (not least because it covers airshow type stuff which I love....lots of fast action!) Works super smoothly, especially when video fully loaded.

Thankyou so much for the information!!!!!!

I suspect all the former "Stage6ophiles" will be looking very carefully at this new site now we know about it.

Ted Belben · April 21st, 2008, 10:17 PM

Hello Andy

I uploaded another HD video to HostMedia you may wish to view: Lewis and Clark - Expedition Across America.

Recommend viewing it in FULL SCREEN. The flyover is much like watching an IMAX film. DivX filesize is 93mb so I recommending downloading 100% before viewing. (Their streaming is still slow as UL/DL activity increases).

April 8th, 2008, 07:06 AM	#18
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Actually, I waited 2 minutes on my 3 year old work laptop and gave up thinking the link might be dead (I have a superfast ADSL connection by the way.) Maybe I'm almost part of that generation then ;=) I'll try it on my fast editing PC once it's free from rendering! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 8th, 2008, 10:36 AM	#19
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Vimeo HD Problems Just as a further update, a friend of mine took one of my 2min 20 sec videos (1280x720p) and converted it Flash and then uploaded that to his own (currently still private) website so we could view this test. Playback was really nice, almost faultless! Then he uploaded the very same file to Vimeo for me (again as a test, it's still private/not viewable by anyone other than we two.) He had to create a .mov but then the file we now have on Vimeo got "converted" to a Std Def format in their Flash conversion and it now plays really badly, just like all the others with stuttering/pausing....(his word was it has been "Bug#4&4d" by Vimeo - I tend to agree!) __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production Last edited by Andy Wilkinson; April 8th, 2008 at 11:14 AM.

April 9th, 2008, 02:33 AM	#21
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Thanks Warren. I'll give it a go. __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 13th, 2008, 02:47 PM	#24
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Aric, there are a LOT of bugs on the Vimeo website. I hear others complain about them (personally to me and on Forums) and I see many strange happenings...sometimes my videos "disappear" at various stages of uploading or conversion. I then repeat the whole process and it's fine. I suspect (but don't honestly know) that the've just been overwhelmed with so may people joining over the last 2 months since Stage 6 went away (especially folks like me who like to post/watch HD.) With a bit of care and some correct management Vimeo's got the potential to become a really great place - but only time will tell. Mind you, as someone correctly reminded me of a while back, it's absolutely free so you can't knock it too much! __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 18th, 2008, 02:57 AM	#26
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Nice HD video! (full link below for others)...unfortunately I still see constant stepping in the lovely slow pans, even on my 18 month old high spec core duo laptop with high speed BT Broadband ADSL connection...running at 7MBps this morning... and 54 MBs wireless connection to my Netgear router...I guess my hardware is just not up to it!!!! Edit: I should add that all my PC's are XP SP2, mostly less than 4 years old, most have extra RAM etc. and are fully up to date with the very latest Flash 9. Some have mid/high perfomance graphics cards (at the time they were bought) and these have very latest drivers. Also, when I view HD videos I make sure my wife/kids are not also using the house wifi/ADSL connection too! So I really don't know what else to try. http://www.vimeo.com/whitemountains __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production Last edited by Andy Wilkinson; April 18th, 2008 at 07:29 AM.

April 8th, 2008, 05:06 AM	#16
Giroud Francois Inner Circle Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: switzerland Posts: 2,133	there is no excuse for bad video. look here http://www.premiereprise.fr/cliptya/cliptya.mov

April 8th, 2008, 06:44 PM	#20
Warren Kawamoto Trustee Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 1,435	I too have been experimenting with Vimeo and this is how I make non-stuttering videos. 1. Encode your 1280x720p video to H.264, 2000 kilobytes per sec, at 15 FRAMES PER SECOND 2. Upload to Vimeo. The video plays back perfectly without any pauses, at the expense of a slower frame rate. This test was edited in slomo so it appears jittery. http://vimeo.com/854132 I haven't tried encoding at a higher bitrate yet, maybe quality will be better.

April 9th, 2008, 03:11 AM	#22
Richard Gooderick Major Player Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: London, UK Posts: 795	I don't understand what all the fuss is about. My films on Vimeo play back fine on my MacBook unless the local network is congested. Right now, 9.30 am, Andy's video and my own videos stutter. Last night my films were playing fine. I've been using Vimeo to provide previews of the films I am making to people involved in production. Most people find it works fine. Not everyone, but most.

April 13th, 2008, 12:07 PM	#23
Aric Mannion Major Player Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Boston, Massachusetts Posts: 616	I just uploaded a video successfully to vimeo, and watched it in vimeo. The next day it was gone as if it never existed. So I went to the forum to post a new topic asking why. When I clicked post it went to the forum and didn't even post my question. It's so frustrating, it seems to be working but then nothing happens!

April 15th, 2008, 08:47 AM	#25
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Andy... Vimeo's not perfect but I was playing around last night for about an hour and got stutter-free playback of HD files nearly all those I viewed. Now this was on a dual core 3.0gHz box on a 52" TV so there was lots of horsepower to process the files. I've also used a 2.5 year old 1.99gHz laptop without problems as well so I'm at a loss to replicate your issue. Until recently, Vimeo only supported 24fps and would unceremoniously drop six frames a second out of 30fps video which turns it all to rubbish. It would probably also extract a frame out of 25fps footage. Not as bad, but still noticeable. Once I figured this out (takes me a while as I'm not so bright) I was quite happy with the results. You can check them out here: vimeo.com/whitemountains and judge for yourself. I have heard from some people that the new 30fps files are difficult for some to play on all but the newest PCs. Vimeo's still a work in progress, chasing the moving technology target. They're living on the bleeding edge but overall have done a nice job so far IMHO.

April 18th, 2008, 07:59 AM	#27
Tripp Woelfel Trustee Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: North Conway, NH Posts: 1,745	Thanks Andy!

April 19th, 2008, 08:01 PM	#28
Ted Belben Tourist Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 4	Since this is my first post to this forum, it may take me a couple of tries before I get the linking correct if it doesn't follow standard convention. Hey Andy, I saw this thread and thought I may offer a couple of suggestions. In their effort to optimize file size and format for streaming, both Vimeo and Veoh and most of the other streaming hosts compress videos using a couple different flash formats. It is my understanding that Stage6 streamed original DivX content. That included the DivX codec in both the DivX and avi containers. There is a new startup site, Hostmedia.us that is intent on becoming a Stage6 replacement. Since they are still a fledgling site, streaming is slow and there are several bugs. Here's a brief summary: • Currently their site is considered pre-alpha. I expect it will move quickly to beta as funding becomes available. • They are currently upgrading the website to provide a more professional interface, likely more Stage6 appearance, but that's speculation on my part. • They are planning to upgrade their servers to provide better streaming • Justin is requesting donations to launch accelerate the development process On the positive: • Once the video has substantially streamed to your computer, quality is every bit as good as what one uploaded without conversion losses • DivX only is streamed. • No annoying advertisements • No spyware. • The site had grown to approx 600 videos in just about one month, with many HD's. And this is with limited streaming capabilities, I expect using an http web server rather than a streaming server. There's another DivX hosting site I can think of, however they get their revenue from unscrupulous advertisers and I wouldn't recommend it for this reason as it wakes up my antispyware each time I visit. This is not the case with HostMedia.us If you prefer to have your original content quality streamed, suggest to check out the site, keep an eye on progress, try a couple of vids and if you like it, join and participate any way you can. Technical support, advice, etc. is always welcome. Justin is open to suggestions. By the way, they plan to change their domain name from HostMedia.us to another when they launch their new interface. Here are a couple of links. Check out the quality in full screen even though not all was uploaded in Hi Def (including a couple I uploaded to test quality): http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=168 http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=498 http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=227 __________________________________ And the following is my test for hotlinking on this site since it is my first post. If it doesn't work, just ignore it. And if I can edit later, I will and make it more functional or just remove it. Three tests in one. Air Show Demo And to see if they allow HTML: <a href="http://hostmedia.us/alpha/play.php?vid=168"> Air Show Demo - HostMedia.us</a> _______________________ Edit: It appears HTML isn't permittted.

April 20th, 2008, 09:31 AM	#29
Andy Wilkinson Inner Circle Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Cambridge UK Posts: 2,853	Ted, This is fantastic news. HD playback quality is absolutely superb, razor sharp and stutter free even on one of my old laptops! Vimeo can't match this quality AT ALL from what I've seen. The first link in particular is stunning (not least because it covers airshow type stuff which I love....lots of fast action!) Works super smoothly, especially when video fully loaded. Thankyou so much for the information!!!!!! I suspect all the former "Stage6ophiles" will be looking very carefully at this new site now we know about it. __________________ Andy K Wilkinson - https://www.shootingimage.co.uk Cambridge (UK) Corporate Video Production

April 21st, 2008, 10:17 PM	#30
Ted Belben Tourist Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Ontario Canada Posts: 4	Lewis And Clark HD Hello Andy I uploaded another HD video to HostMedia you may wish to view: Lewis and Clark - Expedition Across America. Recommend viewing it in FULL SCREEN. The flyover is much like watching an IMAX film. DivX filesize is 93mb so I recommending downloading 100% before viewing. (Their streaming is still slow as UL/DL activity increases).