Hdv Final Product

Simon Wyndham · January 15th, 2005, 05:00 AM

Simple. DV dropouts usually take the form of little squares, so it's possible using some Photoshop skills to use information from either the preceding frame or the following frame to patch over them. Failing that there's Dynapel's Motion Perfect which also has a function to repair dropouts.

None of these solutions is possible with a 1/2 to 1 second HDV dropout.

Bill Piedra · January 16th, 2005, 10:01 PM

There is a very interesting Business Week article avaialble online.

at: [http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2005/tc20050110_2911_tc024.htm]

NEWS ANALYSIS
By Stephen H. Wildstrom

What HDTV Is Missing: HD Content
Today's snazzy new sets are capable of showing pictures that are much better than those broadcasters and studios are yet providing

Kind of right along the lines of this topic.

Mike Tiffee · January 16th, 2005, 10:20 PM

This isn't true:
"Even the cable-sports network ESPN HD, which often does an exemplary job with HD, sometimes cheats, offering 720p images, but on a 4:3 screen. The reason, according to an ESPN (DIS ) official, is a shortage of mobile HD production facilities. Broadcasting an event in both standard and HD formats requires parallel production operations because the HD shot shows a much larger chunk of the field."

I work for ESPN and we never produce 720p in 4:3- and broadcasting an event in both SD and HD does NOT require parallel production operations. All of our animations and graphics are 4x3 safe, but our show is created in 16x9 and a 4:3 center-cut output is created in Bristol, CT, downconverted and sent out to SD land.

It's possible when he says "cheats" he means that shows that are created in SD for ESPN are shown on ESPN HD also- just upconverted. But in that case, they're not 720p images, they're 601 30i images upconverted to the 720p format.

ESPN really took a big bite when they started doing HD shows. I know they signed some major contracts with two truck companies to get some HD trucks built so they can produce shows for their HD network... they don't get any more viewers and it costs them probably twice as much, maybe 3 times as much, to produce.

I know the preproduction takes twice as long- nobody in the sports broadcasting world has ever been "trained" in HD. We've all just learned as we went. Many producers have never worked HD shows and don't know what's involved and many of the issues created when integrating SD content in HD shows. Things that used to take 5 minutes, now take 10- especially when we check in with ABC in New York or ESPN in Bristol to do our transmission checks. We have to check the HD encoders, and the back-up encoders, make sure lip sync is correct, that our graphics look good, etc. and there always seems to be some problems somewhere in the path. Many of the satellite trucks don't have disembedders or HD decoders, so we have no idea what we're really putting out except for the feedback we get from Master Control in NY or CT.

But he's right there really IS a lack of HD content, and he's right, there are only a small percentage of HD trucks on the road- but every major truck company out there, and even many of the smaller ones, have HD trucks and are building or converting more over. Many of the trucks I worked on last year that were 601 digital trucks are now HD trucks. I'll probably do twice as many HD shows this year as last year, and in 2006 will probably do twice as more as this year.

Len Rosenberg · January 29th, 2005, 06:31 AM

Simon Wyndhamwrote: <One thing I'm confused about is why SD looks great on an SD monitor, but not on an HD one.>

Kevin Dooley wrote: <I'm not doubting the validity of your claims Simon (infact, if you go from 720x576 to 1280x720 you should be able to get decent uprezzing), but looking at 720x480(486) on a native 1080i monitor should look like crap. You're talking over 2.25 the amount of pixels--and even the best uprezzers are gonna have trouble making up that many extra pixels.>

I posted this question in another forum because my Sony PD170 video which used to look great on a CRT TV now looks horrible on my Pioneer 50" Plasma set. The answers were that I must be doing something wrong, that maybe the image was being scaled improperly, etc. Reading this thread, it seems that I'm not doing anything wrong (I'm feeding the signal from the camera into the set's media receiver box with an S video cable, also tried a firewire in through another box) and that the SD video is just going to look lousy on my plasma set. Any thoughts on what is the truth and whether there is anything I can do short of buying an HD camera? Will hardware upscalers be of any use? (If so, which would you recommend?)

Thanks for any info!

Graham Hickling · January 29th, 2005, 08:40 AM

Man ... Simon accuses ME of making "sweeping assumptions" and then proceeds to make a zillion of his own.

Two quick things.

>>saying SD is dead.

No - we are NOT saying that. HDTVs play SD content so there is no either/or issue. Both formats will coexist.

>>although we might see some form of high definition DVD PLAYER, it is doubtful that we will see a high definition WRITER. Now, perhaps the writers will appear, but remember how much SD DVD writers cost when they first arrived

Read my original post. The $250 Linkplayer and the numerous similar boxes en route for 2005 already play HD content off standard red lazer disks. And Best Buy, et al., sell red-lazer DVD-writers to produce these disks for as low as $30 after rebate.

January 16th, 2005, 10:01 PM	#92
Bill Piedra Regular Crew Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Manchester CT USA Posts: 109	Interesting Business Week Article There is a very interesting Business Week article avaialble online. at: [http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/jan2005/tc20050110_2911_tc024.htm] NEWS ANALYSIS By Stephen H. Wildstrom What HDTV Is Missing: HD Content Today's snazzy new sets are capable of showing pictures that are much better than those broadcasters and studios are yet providing Kind of right along the lines of this topic.

January 15th, 2005, 05:00 AM	#91
Simon Wyndham Trustee Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Malvern UK Posts: 1,931	Simple. DV dropouts usually take the form of little squares, so it's possible using some Photoshop skills to use information from either the preceding frame or the following frame to patch over them. Failing that there's Dynapel's Motion Perfect which also has a function to repair dropouts. None of these solutions is possible with a 1/2 to 1 second HDV dropout.

January 16th, 2005, 10:20 PM	#93
Mike Tiffee Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 150	This isn't true: "Even the cable-sports network ESPN HD, which often does an exemplary job with HD, sometimes cheats, offering 720p images, but on a 4:3 screen. The reason, according to an ESPN (DIS ) official, is a shortage of mobile HD production facilities. Broadcasting an event in both standard and HD formats requires parallel production operations because the HD shot shows a much larger chunk of the field." I work for ESPN and we never produce 720p in 4:3- and broadcasting an event in both SD and HD does NOT require parallel production operations. All of our animations and graphics are 4x3 safe, but our show is created in 16x9 and a 4:3 center-cut output is created in Bristol, CT, downconverted and sent out to SD land. It's possible when he says "cheats" he means that shows that are created in SD for ESPN are shown on ESPN HD also- just upconverted. But in that case, they're not 720p images, they're 601 30i images upconverted to the 720p format. ESPN really took a big bite when they started doing HD shows. I know they signed some major contracts with two truck companies to get some HD trucks built so they can produce shows for their HD network... they don't get any more viewers and it costs them probably twice as much, maybe 3 times as much, to produce. I know the preproduction takes twice as long- nobody in the sports broadcasting world has ever been "trained" in HD. We've all just learned as we went. Many producers have never worked HD shows and don't know what's involved and many of the issues created when integrating SD content in HD shows. Things that used to take 5 minutes, now take 10- especially when we check in with ABC in New York or ESPN in Bristol to do our transmission checks. We have to check the HD encoders, and the back-up encoders, make sure lip sync is correct, that our graphics look good, etc. and there always seems to be some problems somewhere in the path. Many of the satellite trucks don't have disembedders or HD decoders, so we have no idea what we're really putting out except for the feedback we get from Master Control in NY or CT. But he's right there really IS a lack of HD content, and he's right, there are only a small percentage of HD trucks on the road- but every major truck company out there, and even many of the smaller ones, have HD trucks and are building or converting more over. Many of the trucks I worked on last year that were 601 digital trucks are now HD trucks. I'll probably do twice as many HD shows this year as last year, and in 2006 will probably do twice as more as this year.

January 29th, 2005, 06:31 AM	#94
Len Rosenberg Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Port Washington NY Posts: 106	Simon Wyndhamwrote: <One thing I'm confused about is why SD looks great on an SD monitor, but not on an HD one.> Kevin Dooley wrote: <I'm not doubting the validity of your claims Simon (infact, if you go from 720x576 to 1280x720 you should be able to get decent uprezzing), but looking at 720x480(486) on a native 1080i monitor should look like crap. You're talking over 2.25 the amount of pixels--and even the best uprezzers are gonna have trouble making up that many extra pixels.> I posted this question in another forum because my Sony PD170 video which used to look great on a CRT TV now looks horrible on my Pioneer 50" Plasma set. The answers were that I must be doing something wrong, that maybe the image was being scaled improperly, etc. Reading this thread, it seems that I'm not doing anything wrong (I'm feeding the signal from the camera into the set's media receiver box with an S video cable, also tried a firewire in through another box) and that the SD video is just going to look lousy on my plasma set. Any thoughts on what is the truth and whether there is anything I can do short of buying an HD camera? Will hardware upscalers be of any use? (If so, which would you recommend?) Thanks for any info!

January 29th, 2005, 08:40 AM	#95
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Man ... Simon accuses ME of making "sweeping assumptions" and then proceeds to make a zillion of his own. Two quick things. >>saying SD is dead. No - we are NOT saying that. HDTVs play SD content so there is no either/or issue. Both formats will coexist. >>although we might see some form of high definition DVD PLAYER, it is doubtful that we will see a high definition WRITER. Now, perhaps the writers will appear, but remember how much SD DVD writers cost when they first arrived Read my original post. The $250 Linkplayer and the numerous similar boxes en route for 2005 already play HD content off standard red lazer disks. And Best Buy, et al., sell red-lazer DVD-writers to produce these disks for as low as $30 after rebate.