why HD right now at DVinfo.net

Greg Harris · March 2nd, 2005, 01:29 PM

After you guys shot your video on a HD camera what do you do with it? You can't put it on DVD and thats the main idea when shooting. Online video is rather boring unless your promoting a video with a promo. And spending the extra money for HD to put footy just online is a waste. HD DVDs are coming out later this year ( I HOPE!!!). so thats when i'll up grade to a HDcam. So what do you guys use it for right now, that the DVX can't do.

Steven White · March 2nd, 2005, 01:37 PM

I use it for producing everything I'm shooting now in HD. I then make uncompressed masters of my projects, so that I can convert them to HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, or WMV HD for distribution when those formats become more popular.

For that matter, with suitable bandwidth, putting HD footage online is possible - online doesn't necessarily mean low quality... it SHOULD mean carefully compressed. The majority of my projects are destined for online distribution anyway, and the WMV format is certainly well-suited to distributing the footage as HD.

Creating and mastering your current projects in HD is entirely the point of buying an HDV camera now (in my case), and is exactly what the DVX can't do (well, that and native 16:9).

Douglas Spotted Eagle · March 2nd, 2005, 02:00 PM

There are also other methods of delivering HD, particularly for broadcast, but there is wmv, AVC, and other formats available.
Archiving in HD is a big thing too.
You won't see HD-DVD by the end of this year though, I don't think. I think we're about 12 months out right now, before it even begins.

Sean M Lee · March 2nd, 2005, 02:30 PM

<<<-- You can't put it on DVD and thats the main idea when shooting. -->>>

hmmm, thanks for clueing (sp?) me in! LOL

James Darren · March 3rd, 2005, 04:54 AM

correct me if i'm wrong but I thought one of the main reasons to buy a HDV camera at the moment is to be able to get better quality SD output from your projects.

with the extra resolution doesn't it allow you to do more to your footage? ie: record in HD to create better SD slow motion, progressive frames, more detail (since the higher resolution to start with)

again correct me if i'm wrong but isn't HDV (Sony FX1/Z1) going to output better even at SD compared to a VX2000, PD150 etc?

like comparing 35mm film to 120 film? sure they're both printed at 300dpi but you get more detail & able to crop more with 120 film....

maybe all this isn't true in practice but in theory it seems right.... am i right?

Greg Harris · March 3rd, 2005, 07:53 AM

Thats true, but I want HD DVD so i can watch my projects on a plasa/protection HDTV without looking like poo. If HD DVD does't come out this year i'll flip my 23 year old wig. Do you guys know anything about the new DVD players companies like Sony has now that converts reg. DVDs to almost HD quality for your HDTVs. My friend has one and said it's sweet

John C. Chu · March 3rd, 2005, 08:15 AM

<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Harris : Thats true, but I want HD DVD so i can watch my projects on a plasa/protection HDTV without looking like poo. If HD DVD does't come out this year i'll flip my 23 year old wig. Do you guys know anything about the new DVD players companies like Sony has now that converts reg. DVDs to almost HD quality for your HDTVs. My friend has one and said it's sweet -->>>

If I could afford to buy a FX-1*and* a faster Mac to edit HDV this year I'd definitely consider getting a JVC D-VHS deck .(There are only about $300-$400 refurbished and have the necessary firewire port)

It plugs into your component inputs of your HDTV and voila--HD nirvana. You can even use cheaper S-VHS tapes with the decks too.

[Greg, you can print your project back to the FX-1 and use it as deck to play back your projects right?]

As for those DVD players you are referring to--they are are called "up-converting" DVD players...it is basically a "scaler"--it upconverts the 480 resolution of your movies to 1080i ---it's not HD--but can look very good depending on the original source. Check out www.avsforum.com for info on upconverting dvd players.

Tommy Haupfear · March 13th, 2005, 09:09 AM

The upconverting DVD players have been out for a while and I believe the Samsung is under $200. You can output component, DVI, or HDMI depending on the model but I haven't been overly impressed with them.

If you really want to show off that HD footage without wearing out your FX1/Z1 then just get a big screen HDTV that supports computer resolutions and add a HTPC.

I'm currently playing back my FX1 footage directly from the cam on my 50" Sony LCD and I'm happy with my upgrade from the DVX100A. I just don't shoot 4:3 anymore (unless paid to do so).

Mike Tiffee · March 13th, 2005, 10:18 AM

One thing I do with my FX-1 that I can't do with a DVX - take to someone's house with a HDTV and watch their jaw drop while I playback normal everyday footage. It happens EVERYTIME. The quality of the FX-1 footage is amazing.

the DVD standard right now is SD, so your statement is incorrect that you can't put it on a DVD and watch it.

Why HD right now:

1. the future
2. better quality
3. true 16x9
4. marketing advantage
5. I use the camera with my work

Ways to watch footage
1. Playback from camera
2. WMV9HD DVD playback from DVD player in HD
3. Playback on computer to monitor or via card to HDTV
4. Master to other HD format
5. SD playback via DVD

Eirik Tyrihjel · March 13th, 2005, 04:29 PM

I traded in my Panasonic DVX 100 for a HDR-FX1.

I wanted HDV now because I often reuse my raw footage on newer projects. In 3-8 years SD will be worthless (commercially) in this sense, HDR-FX1 allows me to shoot High Def now and output it as SD for my current projects, while the footage is High Definition and holds the necessary quality for decades to come!

I have read endless discussions of HDV v/s various DV cameras, and although I think DVX100 is a great camera (as is XL2), to me resolution is the most important concideration.

We have endured with the 576x720 resolution (Europe) for more than 50 years, HD is long overdue and its inevitable that SD will be dead and gone within a decade or two, once people start seeng HD there is no way they will put up with SD anymore.

I will continue to make money from my footage since I started shooting HDV february 2005.

My experience with HDR-FX1 so far is very good, no dreaded drop outs, great looking colors, good contrast ratio and the sweetest thing... its High def!

Soeren Mueller · March 13th, 2005, 04:54 PM

> 2. WMV9HD DVD playback from DVD player in HD

Why always WMV?! *sigh* There's MPEG2/DIVX HD too which delivers at least the same quality per size/bitrate!

Sorry.. just reminding folks again to checkout WMV/MS alternatives too... ;)

Xander Christ · March 13th, 2005, 05:33 PM

->> ...but I want HD DVD so i can watch my projects on a plasa/protection HDTV without looking like poo. <<-

What software do you use to encode your DVDs? Your DVDs will look like poo if you use iDVD or most consumer oriented DVD encoders.

To get your SD footage to not look like poo on HD sets, you'll need a professional encoder like MainConcept's MPEG Encoder. With most Hollywood DVDs, the compressionist compresses scene-by-scene with a 2 pass, VBR (GOPs are determined by scene content); they don't click a setting like "high quality" and be done with it. Consumers don't have the patience to do this, but that's why commercial DVDs don't look like home video DVDs.

I agree, DVHS is currently the only way to go for HD/V distribution. DVHS also does 28 mbps which means less compression than the 19 to 25 mbps HDV.

Mike Tiffee · March 13th, 2005, 07:46 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Soeren Mueller : > 2. WMV9HD DVD playback from DVD player in HD

Sorry.. just reminding folks again to checkout WMV/MS alternatives too... ;) -->>>

Yes there are, thanks for the addition.

Gabriele Sartori · March 13th, 2005, 08:11 PM

<<<-- Originally posted by Xander Christ : ->> they don't click a setting like "high quality" and be done with it. Consumers don't have the patience to do this, but that's why commercial DVDs don't look like home video DVDs -->>>

With all the due respect but you are quite wrong here. I would be happy if all it takes is a mainconcept encoder to do DVD as good as the commercial DVD but it isn't like that...

(BTW I normally use a mainconcept encoder and I know how to set it for the best output)

March 2nd, 2005, 01:29 PM	#1
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	why HD right now After you guys shot your video on a HD camera what do you do with it? You can't put it on DVD and thats the main idea when shooting. Online video is rather boring unless your promoting a video with a promo. And spending the extra money for HD to put footy just online is a waste. HD DVDs are coming out later this year ( I HOPE!!!). so thats when i'll up grade to a HDcam. So what do you guys use it for right now, that the DVX can't do.

March 2nd, 2005, 02:00 PM	#3
Douglas Spotted Eagle VASST Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Stockton, UT Posts: 5,648	There are also other methods of delivering HD, particularly for broadcast, but there is wmv, AVC, and other formats available. Archiving in HD is a big thing too. You won't see HD-DVD by the end of this year though, I don't think. I think we're about 12 months out right now, before it even begins. __________________ Douglas Spotted Eagle/Spot Author, producer, composer Certified Sony Vegas Trainer http://www.vasst.com

March 2nd, 2005, 02:30 PM	#4
Sean M Lee Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indy Posts: 160	Re: why HD right now <<<-- You can't put it on DVD and thats the main idea when shooting. -->>> hmmm, thanks for clueing (sp?) me in! LOL

March 13th, 2005, 04:29 PM	#10
Eirik Tyrihjel Regular Crew Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Oslo, Norway Posts: 84	I traded in my Panasonic DVX 100 for a HDR-FX1. I wanted HDV now because I often reuse my raw footage on newer projects. In 3-8 years SD will be worthless (commercially) in this sense, HDR-FX1 allows me to shoot High Def now and output it as SD for my current projects, while the footage is High Definition and holds the necessary quality for decades to come! I have read endless discussions of HDV v/s various DV cameras, and although I think DVX100 is a great camera (as is XL2), to me resolution is the most important concideration. We have endured with the 576x720 resolution (Europe) for more than 50 years, HD is long overdue and its inevitable that SD will be dead and gone within a decade or two, once people start seeng HD there is no way they will put up with SD anymore. I will continue to make money from my footage since I started shooting HDV february 2005. My experience with HDR-FX1 so far is very good, no dreaded drop outs, great looking colors, good contrast ratio and the sweetest thing... its High def! __________________ http://www.groovyentertainment.com RED ONE #476

March 2nd, 2005, 01:37 PM	#2
Steven White Major Player Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Canada Posts: 547	I use it for producing everything I'm shooting now in HD. I then make uncompressed masters of my projects, so that I can convert them to HD-DVD or Blu-Ray, or WMV HD for distribution when those formats become more popular. For that matter, with suitable bandwidth, putting HD footage online is possible - online doesn't necessarily mean low quality... it SHOULD mean carefully compressed. The majority of my projects are destined for online distribution anyway, and the WMV format is certainly well-suited to distributing the footage as HD. Creating and mastering your current projects in HD is entirely the point of buying an HDV camera now (in my case), and is exactly what the DVX can't do (well, that and native 16:9).

March 3rd, 2005, 04:54 AM	#5
James Darren Major Player Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: New York, NY Posts: 235	correct me if i'm wrong but I thought one of the main reasons to buy a HDV camera at the moment is to be able to get better quality SD output from your projects. with the extra resolution doesn't it allow you to do more to your footage? ie: record in HD to create better SD slow motion, progressive frames, more detail (since the higher resolution to start with) again correct me if i'm wrong but isn't HDV (Sony FX1/Z1) going to output better even at SD compared to a VX2000, PD150 etc? like comparing 35mm film to 120 film? sure they're both printed at 300dpi but you get more detail & able to crop more with 120 film.... maybe all this isn't true in practice but in theory it seems right.... am i right?

March 3rd, 2005, 07:53 AM	#6
Greg Harris Major Player Join Date: May 2004 Location: Fairfax, VA Posts: 356	Thats true, but I want HD DVD so i can watch my projects on a plasa/protection HDTV without looking like poo. If HD DVD does't come out this year i'll flip my 23 year old wig. Do you guys know anything about the new DVD players companies like Sony has now that converts reg. DVDs to almost HD quality for your HDTVs. My friend has one and said it's sweet

March 3rd, 2005, 08:15 AM	#7
John C. Chu Major Player Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Rego Park , NYC Posts: 665	<<<-- Originally posted by Greg Harris : Thats true, but I want HD DVD so i can watch my projects on a plasa/protection HDTV without looking like poo. If HD DVD does't come out this year i'll flip my 23 year old wig. Do you guys know anything about the new DVD players companies like Sony has now that converts reg. DVDs to almost HD quality for your HDTVs. My friend has one and said it's sweet -->>> If I could afford to buy a FX-1and a faster Mac to edit HDV this year I'd definitely consider getting a JVC D-VHS deck .(There are only about $300-$400 refurbished and have the necessary firewire port) It plugs into your component inputs of your HDTV and voila--HD nirvana. You can even use cheaper S-VHS tapes with the decks too. [Greg, you can print your project back to the FX-1 and use it as deck to play back your projects right?] As for those DVD players you are referring to--they are are called "up-converting" DVD players...it is basically a "scaler"--it upconverts the 480 resolution of your movies to 1080i ---it's not HD--but can look very good depending on the original source. Check out www.avsforum.com for info on upconverting dvd players.

March 13th, 2005, 09:09 AM	#8
Tommy Haupfear Wrangler Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 1,415	The upconverting DVD players have been out for a while and I believe the Samsung is under $200. You can output component, DVI, or HDMI depending on the model but I haven't been overly impressed with them. If you really want to show off that HD footage without wearing out your FX1/Z1 then just get a big screen HDTV that supports computer resolutions and add a HTPC. I'm currently playing back my FX1 footage directly from the cam on my 50" Sony LCD and I'm happy with my upgrade from the DVX100A. I just don't shoot 4:3 anymore (unless paid to do so).

March 13th, 2005, 10:18 AM	#9
Mike Tiffee Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 150	One thing I do with my FX-1 that I can't do with a DVX - take to someone's house with a HDTV and watch their jaw drop while I playback normal everyday footage. It happens EVERYTIME. The quality of the FX-1 footage is amazing. the DVD standard right now is SD, so your statement is incorrect that you can't put it on a DVD and watch it. Why HD right now: 1. the future 2. better quality 3. true 16x9 4. marketing advantage 5. I use the camera with my work Ways to watch footage 1. Playback from camera 2. WMV9HD DVD playback from DVD player in HD 3. Playback on computer to monitor or via card to HDTV 4. Master to other HD format 5. SD playback via DVD

March 13th, 2005, 04:54 PM	#11
Soeren Mueller Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Düsseldorf, Germany / Denver, CO Posts: 137	> 2. WMV9HD DVD playback from DVD player in HD Why always WMV?! sigh There's MPEG2/DIVX HD too which delivers at least the same quality per size/bitrate! Sorry.. just reminding folks again to checkout WMV/MS alternatives too... ;)

March 13th, 2005, 05:33 PM	#12
Xander Christ Regular Crew Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 115	->> ...but I want HD DVD so i can watch my projects on a plasa/protection HDTV without looking like poo. <<- What software do you use to encode your DVDs? Your DVDs will look like poo if you use iDVD or most consumer oriented DVD encoders. To get your SD footage to not look like poo on HD sets, you'll need a professional encoder like MainConcept's MPEG Encoder. With most Hollywood DVDs, the compressionist compresses scene-by-scene with a 2 pass, VBR (GOPs are determined by scene content); they don't click a setting like "high quality" and be done with it. Consumers don't have the patience to do this, but that's why commercial DVDs don't look like home video DVDs. I agree, DVHS is currently the only way to go for HD/V distribution. DVHS also does 28 mbps which means less compression than the 19 to 25 mbps HDV.

March 13th, 2005, 07:46 PM	#13
Mike Tiffee Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2004 Posts: 150	<<<-- Originally posted by Soeren Mueller : > 2. WMV9HD DVD playback from DVD player in HD Sorry.. just reminding folks again to checkout WMV/MS alternatives too... ;) -->>> Yes there are, thanks for the addition.

March 13th, 2005, 08:11 PM	#14
Gabriele Sartori Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA Posts: 112	<<<-- Originally posted by Xander Christ : ->> they don't click a setting like "high quality" and be done with it. Consumers don't have the patience to do this, but that's why commercial DVDs don't look like home video DVDs -->>> With all the due respect but you are quite wrong here. I would be happy if all it takes is a mainconcept encoder to do DVD as good as the commercial DVD but it isn't like that... (BTW I normally use a mainconcept encoder and I know how to set it for the best output)