Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I'm noticing Sony HX50 is a good camera but not as great as we thought. Is it for its small sensor?
I have read cheaper cameras makes better image quality. The first reviews are coming:
Sony Cybershot DSC-HX50 Review
Is it convenient to spend so much money on this Sony HX50?

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

That same review site that reviewed the Hx50 rated the Panasonic ZS30 (TZ40) higher. I have the ZS30 and I am pleased with the video quality.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

First reviews... hmmm.... some CA issues, and noise at high ISO's - both to be expected at this price, AKA "normal". Shaky handheld video looks "OK" considering... a pro with a bracket and better stabilizing skills should be able to get better results.

I didn't see the "review" as being terribly comprehensive, typical "consumer oriented review". No review of audio (often a weak point in small cameras), no discussion of menus and depth of controls, and pretty basic.

I'd like to see some side by side with the HX300 - same sensor, but different lenses. I'd sort of expect that the compact lens would suffer more issues just because of being packed into a smaller format (30x is a lot in a small pocket camera, same as last years HX200, a much larger camera!). Physics is what it is, but tech gets better... and I'd expect the HX50 to be slightly more "dialed in", being a later release.

It's a pocket camera with a 30x lens (and apparently a nifty remote control function that if it works with an Android phone would be worth it to me for that feature!). If that's what you need, consider it, I don't think there's any others with that lens range out there. If your needs or expectations are different, look at other cameras. The only "perfect" camera is the one you will take with you and capture the shots you want, not one with newer better specs that will come out next year or whatever.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I'm sorry but I don't understand what you mean about Sony HX200. I have viewd some shots of Sony HX200 and I have to tell you the image quality is far better than HX50.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Right on Dave. While that review does report in some detail the photographic abilities and the general handling qualities, as they see them, it is almost useless regarding video capabilities. Here is what they reported:

‘Video - Below is a video recorded in full 1080p HD and the quality is good. The optical zoom is available during recording, an example of which can be seen on the ePHOTOzine Youtube page.’

That’s it! Essentially useless regarding video in my opinion. One could say that about most if not all point and shoot digital cameras that also shoot 1080 50p/60p these days. In any event I would expect the HX50 to be just another point and shoot small travel cam with a very decent list of features and class leading zoom capabilities, which may or may not turn your crank.

However, the HX50 has one unique feature that is of interest to me and that is the ability to add on a ridiculously expensive EVF. I purchased the HX20v and while the video this cam shoots is right up there with most of the best travel cams I found it of very limited value as in broad daylight, which is mostly where I shoot, I can’t really see the screen. No EVF. Just hopeless for me. The HX50v (at a price) solves that problem. OK, not quite so easy to pop in a pocket but just slide off the EVF and pop that in another pocket.

The other not so obvious benefit of an EVF is the improvement in image stabilization this affords. Holding a pocket cam at arm’s length in order to view the screen versus holding the cam firmly against one’s head is chalk and cheese for me when it comes to obtaining smooth video. Now, having said that smooth video may not be important to you.

Based on specifications and Sony’s history with video in small cams the feature set of the HX50v works for me. I see it (expect it to be) as a pocketable slightly improved HX200v. I take note of your input, Adriano, saying otherwise. You may well be correct however the samples I have viewed would suggest the photographs taken with the HX50v will meet my needs not unlike shots captured with the HX200v. Let me add that when it comes to still photographs (not the subject of this thread) when I want to get serious it's the NEX 5n every time. But that's another story.

And down the road apiece in yet another pocket I shall probably carry the upcoming Black Magic Pocket Cam, if and when it becomes available!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

The HX200 has a similar 30x lens range, in a substantially physically larger "package". It's quite entirely possible that the larger lens could produce better image quality. The HX50 is a physically smaller camera, obviously to maintain "pocketability", but that potentially may mean some compromises in lens quality.

I know if "noticed" the CA in the HX100 and 200, so far the HX300 seems to be better optically. That's where some side by side testing would be enlightening - how good is the lens in the HX50... usually Sony improves over time...

There are also differences of course in the sensor, and all the samples I've shot so far with the HX300 indicate to my eye that the newer sensor performs better than the one in the HX200. Higher ISOs still fall apart less than gracefully, but lower ones hold up better than the 200 did. Video in low light looks better by a stop or maybe even two. That by itself is actually rather impressive. It's not as capable as a CX/PJ series Handycam, but IS noticeably brighter and cleaner than ANY previous Cybershot I've owned, to the point where I'd chance it in "low light" if I needed the insane zoom.

I still really haven't had the chance to get the HX300 out and do some video comparison shooting, so I really don't want to comment rashly, but I expect it to be pretty good.


Adriano, I realize you want to pull up online samples that may or may not be good representations of what the camera(s) can or can't do under varying conditions... and come to a conclusion... but ultimately you are going to have to put hands on, put a camera through the "tests" that mean the most to YOU, and see if it's a good fit.

While the viewfinder in the HX300 isn't "great", it's included in the price, and the camera isn't THAT big, just not "pocketable" - I can still stick it AND the RX100 in the smallest camera bag I've got and never know I'm carrying it. Would the HX50 "cover" both bases? I might pick one up and see if I spot a used one at the right price, and I can think of some uses for that remote capability!


This thread started with the question of whether a "compact camera" could record "like" a good video camcorder - you've seen that there are a number of options that might meet that request, at least in many respects. It really comes down to budget, and what fits for you... There won't be a "perfect" camera, and in a couple years, we'll probably be debating the qualities of UHD/4K options anyway!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I don't take an interest about superzoom and I think a normal zoom is more than adequate. .... but if I have to be sincere, I like above all the hot shoe of Sony HX50. I would wait for some other more complete reviews and if the it score will be similar to other cameras I will buy another one and cheaper camera. I'm thinking about Sony HX20 too. It is a good small camera with good tests. I'd like to remain inwardly Sony brand because I have so many Memory sticks Duo I already use with my videocamera..... but if Lumix G6 will be really a very good camera and if it comes up to expectations I will think on it too. ;)
Dear friends: some days ago I had considered Sony HX200 because there are no other cameras so cheap and with so great tests. What I don't like on it is the lack of hot shoe.
In June I have to buy a new camera and I like to remain between Sony HX50 and Sony HX200 size and price.
In that time I hope I will produce some more clear ideas. ;)

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Keep in mind that all recent Sony cams can use both MS Duo and SD cards... I have a mix of the two types.

It's always "fun" trying to decide which features are the ones most important, sometimes you think "gee, if I designed cameras, it would have THESE features..." But since we don't get to design... we have to find what fits "us" best!

I know I've bought cameras that everyone else raves about and hated them (OK, maybe not hate, but strongly disliked enough to pass them along to someone who WOULD appreciate them...). Other times I read comments about a camera and wonder if they had the same one I did?!

It comes down to use and expectations - I might WANT a sports car, but NEED a van, and maybe end up in a "crossover" trying to find a happy medium, to use an analogy...



Unlike cars, you probably can have a couple cameras for different situations... and still not bust the budget...

The RX100 is a unique little beast, and for a "pocket rocket" it does things other cameras don't, and is FUN to shoot with! Would I add a VF and a longer lens? Probably... and it wouldn't fit in a pocket anymore!

I use a couple TX series cameras for what they do well, and I'll admit a certain fondness for the top of the HX series - I'm used to the way a SLR sits in the hand and the 100/200/300 have that "vibe", without being too big or heavy, plus that superzoom can be FUN... The HX50 feature set is rather interesting, and it carries on a tradition of the midrange compact HX cameras that have been well received - I tried the HX9, didn't "click" for me, don't know exactly why, but it just didn't, I know others loved it, and the successor models (HX20/30).


You pay a price in image quality in ANY small sensor camera, that's just the physics of the matter. There are design compromises in physically small devices. BUT there are offsetting advantages... and in the end it looks like all but the higher end "enthusiast" models may disappear in the very near future, victims of better cell phone camera imaging modules! The CELL PHONE has become the "camera you have with you" for the vast majority of the population, most of whom are not "pixel peepers", and just happy to get SOMETHING when they "point and shoot"...

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

FDA-EV1MK electronic viewfinder = 449 euro???? More than Sony camera?
I could never believe it.
I cannot buy it neither HX50 unfortunately. I would have bought HX50 especially because I could use the electronic viewfinder but for that price I will buy Sony HX20.
On this comparative reviews HX20 come out not worse than HX50 almost better .... even if I'm not an expert guy.
Sony Cybershot DSC HX50 vs. Sony Cybershot DSC HX20V - Sensor Comparison
Same size sensor, Max. resolution 5184 x 3888 vs 4896 x 3672 are almost the same but HX20 has more dynamic range.
Now I have clearer ideas and if I had to buy a p&S I will buy HX20. ;)

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I have no idea where you get the conclusion on greater dynamic range... you really need to be a bit careful reading random sites and coming to random conclusions... this is especially true if you are "not an expert" - there is a LOT of misinformation in the internet, and a lot of questionable information as well! It's very EASY to read things and get entirely incorrect "conclusions"... I think if I read "too many pixels" one more time I may scream... reminds me of "too many notes", which if you're a musician, you'll get the joke, and it is one...

We are talking about a current generation sensor vs. "last generation"... I don't have equipment other than my eyes to "test", but overall I feel the new 20.4 sensor (HX300/HX50) subjectively looks significantly better than the 18.2 (HX20/30, HX200, TX200, TX66). Low light is definitely better, and if you set the camera right, the images are better, at least in the still department from the comparison shots I have done... Having owned Sonys with the 16.2, the 18.2 and the 20.4 (the sensors are basically the same physical dimensions ot reduce the re-engineering between model years), the 18 was the "weak spot", as under many conditions I got worse results than with the 16 - so far the 20 looks to be better than both prior sensor designs, partially due to the processing.

I've seen others say it's worse, so perhaps they tested under different conditions or with different expectations, or were looking at different things than were on my radar, or they didn't set things the same way I do from years of hands on experience. I see "overexposure" as a complaint, and I think to myself - "tap wheel under thumb, adjust EV to compensate, problem solved", and am happy to have a camera so easy to dial in... I also think "DUH, learn to operate your camera", but that's another topic!



The add on VF was originally for more expensive camera(s) - RX1, a $2700 camera, and the current generation NEX series I believe. It just happens it fits the new shoe Sony is using, including on the HX50. It is possible Sony or a third party could release a less expensive VF (and other accessories for this new shoe) if there is demand... it remains to be seen how this new shoe design will fare - it replaced the old propreitary Konica Minolta shoe, which was much complained about, and I see lots of complaints about the new design (it's a popular internet passtime to criticize "proprietary" designs I think!). Of course if you don't know that the VF was originally for a very expensive camera, it seems a bit shocking... but it adds interesting options to have it "available" for such a small camera.



The HX20/30 are probably available pretty cheap as they are "last years" models, I've seen mostly positive comments about them, why not just find one cheap on close out and see how it goes? You'll save a big chunk over buying the brand new models (although the HX300 price is already softening a "bit"), and you'll have something to start working with to see if you will be happy shooting video with a pocket P&S.

It'll probably be almost as good image wise as a bigger more expensive camera from 5 years ago, to be honest... they really push the engineering on these "consumer" models trying to make them appealing against that "old" cam or the latest cell phone (which also may have a hot rod Sony sensor in it!). Remember the consumer lines are on a one year refresh cycle, and so often have the very latest "tech" and tweaks (though sometimes I've seen steps "backwards"!). They also are most likely to have new features that they hope will cause a buyer to buy... thus why guys here who might have an HX20 or another older model are looking at the 50 <wink>!

Worst case you buy last years model on closeout and decide you want this years model feature wise... now you have a "backup" camera <wink>! And the "new one" has probably dropped a bit in price <wink, wink>.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

A guy made tests of two cameras: Sony HX50 ans HX20 and he is thinking like me about two cameras.
He has answered to a question of his friend asking if HX50 was better than HX20:

"only foto :( video is identical hx20v , is the same (if not worse) of HX20V, improved wide-angle, zoom improved (but at full zoom trembles) has less grain in low light but also has less sharpness.
Is a great improvement for the photos, but no video sony"

I will not buy the camera for stills but almost exclusively for video and my supposition is not too much far from truth. May be are you talking HX50 is better that HX20 about stills? Is it ok but I will not make still.

Look here:

I have downloaded these videos and viewed them by my large TV Full HD.
Dave, I'm noticing you are thinking more about stills than videos. ;)

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

These cameras are of course STILLS cameras, so yes, I'm expecting them to meet a level of quality. They really should be able to take a good photo, you'd think! I can only compare similar shots with the HX100/200/300... the 300 is an improvement over prior cameras, IMO. Notice I said SIMILAR...

I also suspect based on shots taken thus far, the 20MPixel sensor wil perform better than the 18Mpixel one for video, but I really have not had the time to try to replicate any videos and A/B them... the little bit of video testing I've done shows better low light performance by a SIGNIFICANT amount - IOW, the HX300 will shoot in much lower light and still get SOMETHING other than a black screen... probably less grain/noise in similar light, and an actual image in light conditions where you'll get nothing from the earlier generation sensor.

Sharpness is a tricky proposition, and this is why I said any VALID test would compare both sensors AND lenses - packing a 30x lens into a small camera seems to me at least to be inviting optical "issues", sharpness being one of them. Shakiness (trembles) at the long end of the zoom is ALSO expected! That said, the 50X lens of the HX300 has so far been pretty good considering... meaning no glaring flaws (yet at least), and I like the idea of being able to put filters on it, I think I have a set of compatible size ones somewhere I should dig out! Of course as soon as I mount a filter, I've altered any images I take by adding another layer of glass...


NOW... about those two videos... these are an absolutely PERFECT example of how NOT to do a camera comparison "test" - different times of day (the angle of the sun can make a LOT of difference in how things look to an imager), different days by the look of it (the HX50 seems to be shot on a day with significant moisture in the air, which will ABSOLUTELY degrade any optical "test"!), the HX50 looks to be a stop or more overexposed (there's a adjustment for that, and it may well be the firmware is overexposing, Sony has that tendency).

Those are just quick, OBVIOUS things that might affect image "sharpness". I'm not saying that it isn't possible that the HX20 is "better" for video than the HX50, I'm just saying there's NO evidence from these "tests" to support that conclusion if you know anything about image capture under varying conditions...


Let me enlighten you a bit how one gets an objective, verifiable "test" - you put the two cameras side by side (literally, mounted together on ONE mount. side by side or one on top of the other), match up the framing/zoom as much as is practical, fire them up, make any exposure adjustments that might seem appropriate, and make slow deliberate moves (waving the camera around all over the place while testing does NOT gain my confidence in the skills of the camera op/"tester"...). If you want to test zoom, at least attempt to zoom the cameras together, again to maintain comparable image framing, etc. Remember of course that the leses will "ramp" the iris and change exposure... yet another variable...


Yes, I have a photgraphic background, so I know how quickly light and a scene can become TOTALLY different, within seconds or fractions thereof! It amazes me how amateur testers (and sometimes even "pro" ones) ignore or forget this simple fact, and go on to proclaim "conclusions" (which are actually OPINIONS, and we know the old saying about those).

This is where a studio "set" with conditions that are repeatable is at least SOMTHING when you want to test cameras from year to year. I know you "can" go out and try to shoot the same scenes, but at most they are SIMILAR, and therefore not a valid "test" of image quality. On top of that, sometimes scenes of a certain type will create problems for one camera and not another due to some quirk...



That said, sure, show me those two videos, and the 20 looks WAY better than the 50... on "first impression"...

Is it a valid comparison? NOPE... IMO, not even close. Is it possible the HX50 is really as "soft" as it looks in that sample (I actually wonder if the image quality was not set to the max, it looks like a lower bitrate, and at least here there was also much glitching, perhaps indicating an encoding problem)??

SOOOOOO... Perhaps... or maybe not... that's as definitive a "conclusion" as you could arrive at from those "samples"!


But I'm back to my last suggestion, go buy a closeout HX20, be happy, capture good images. Rig it up with a folding bracket to add stability when shooting, a small dimmable LED for low light if you think you'll need it,, and if audio is important you can add a small digital recorder - this would make a surprisingly effective "pocket size"(OK, small camera bag sized) "kit" that would allow you to capture good images! It's small, discrete, you'll never know you're dragging it around, but it'll be there when you want it! You can ALWAYS use a setup like this with whatever small camera you've got!

The HX20 video looks quite nice (and people I trust from this forum say it's good, that's enough real "street cred" for me). If it does what you want, has "enough" zoom for you, and works on your budget, don't bother worrying about whether another camera might be "better" in one respect or another (meaning there will ALWAYS be "better" cameras for one thing or another, and over time the tech improves...). Oh, and don't believe "everything" you see or read on the internet... <wink>.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Comparison video, done (almost) properly: Sony Hx9v and Panasonic ZS30 (TZ40) on a rainy day

Alternating clips within seconds of each other this time on a dark, rainy day. First the Hx9v, then the ZS30 (TZ40). The ZS30 clips are crisper (as is the audio), with better color, especially the greens. Almost all clips are at full (optical) telephoto. Last clip is from the ZS30. Both cameras using 108060p mode. Note: the advantage of a rainy day is that there are no quick changes in light.



The Panasonic is conspicuously better than the Sony, video and audio, here. If the Hx20v or Hx50v are not much improved over the Hx9v, then, well...

You can download the original and see for yourself on your best viewing device. In this video, the original clips were not processed at all - straight from the cameras.

If you have any questions, or think there is something invalid here, let me know. I have no vested interest in the outcome, and I was surprised by the difference. Brand loyalty and internet chatter are not the ways to choose cameras.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Thanks Mark for the sample video - good example of how to get useful test results! Shots taken at roughly the same time, same day, and under the same conditions give a "close enough" result to reach some conclusions! The consistency between the A/B shots helps validate the results... I suspect the subject matter is a bit different from what Adriano plans to shoot though <wink>.

Panasonic makes nice cameras, I've seen some GH3 video samples that had a certain something that really made them pop.

There's definitely a more contrast-y and saturated look to the Panasonic in your video, which gives a viewer a better initial impression, the greens looked a little "hot" on my monitor, but "better" than the more "flat" Sony image. I'd expect most people to go for the Panny, nothing wrong with that!

Each brand tends to have their own "look", I have reasons I like the Sony "look" and technology, and since it makes it easier to match between cameras of the same brand, I stick with 'em (despite some corporate decisions that are REALLY frustrating to the end user). I wouldn't hesitate to tell someone to look at other brands, but since Adriano also has some "legacy" Sony accesories, I understand where he's coming from...


FWIW, the HX9 is the 16Mpixel sensor (roughly two model years old), the HX20 is the 18Mpixel (last years Sony models), and of course the HX50 is the new 20MPixel, so there are probably some differences... But the "Sony look" is likely still "baked in", the overexposure is a dead giveaway to any long time Sony user!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I have viewed some video shots of Sony RX100 and I have noticed they have a good high definition but I have also noticed the image has much more contrast than every other DSL or compact camera. May be it helps to make look like more definition.
In your opinion will the video quality of Sony RX100 be better than HX50? How much (reading the specs)? I mean about video only.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

The RX100 has a LOT of image control options, including adjustable dynamic range... so you can have a lot of control over the shots you take, IF you want it - it also does "point & shoot" well when you want that. The amount of possible manual control along with sensor size and a decent .jpeg or RAW (if you want) make it a "photographers camera". And most of those adjustments cross over to the VIDEO mode, meaning you can really adjust your image, for better or worse! My initial video was overly contrasty, but I've found I can adjust that quite a lot - as I've said, it's not a camera I'm "confident" shooting yet, as it's got so many options. It's a bit of a surprise to have as much tweakability in such a small cam...


I can make some comments on the HX300 video now - shot with it in a "tough room" I've shot many times - school stage production, bad interior lighting conditions, variable lighting... the works for camera nightmares (which I know is entirely different from what you're thinking of shooting, but...). Since the HX50 is using the same sensor, and likely similar electronics (the lens is an unknown of course), perhaps the observations will help with some idea of sensor performance.

Overall the image looked a tiny bit softer than the PJ7xx I shot alongside it, but very low noise/grain. It kept up with a current Handycam quite well. I thought it was struggling a bit in darker areas, but then saw the same in the PJ images... not bad at all. I should have preset white balance, as some parts of the play had a projected image that really fouled that up (all the cameras picked the "bright screen" and auto adjusted WB to it, leaving the rest of the frame "orange"...).

I still need to pull the clips into Vegas, but overall, considering the difficult shooting conditions, the camera performed well. The tilt screen was handy, zoom was fairly smooth (I've noticed I tend to overshoot when using the lens ring...). I had the PJ's AE shift set to -.7EV (equivalent to a -3 setting on older Sonys), no shift on the HX, since I was thinking it was probably close to it's "low light limit" already, but I think it could have used a little - shift after looking at the clips...

I've shot this same room and conditions with the HX100 and 200, they were a lot noisier. I'll have to dig up some old clips if I can, to compare sharpness, but I think the HX300 is better, certainly not any noticeable "problems"..

Overall, I lke how this new sensor performs, and I like the way the bigger HX handles vs. a smaller camera, but it's not a "pocket camera"... I can see where that makes the HX50 "interesting"!

I forgot to grab the RX, but it would have been rough shooting from the back of the room with the lens range, and I have to work with matching the "look" to the other cameras before I shoot with it in a multicam situation!


As you can probably tell, performance in low and bad light is high on my list, I'll have to see about doing some daylight tests, but generally most cameras handle that pretty well! Unfortunately I don't have a nice scenic seaside view to inspire me!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

It occurred to me that a "short answer" to your question is that the HX's will have a "baked in" video look - it is up to the hardware and firmware to determine the image quality, limited user intervention is available...

The RX on the other hand gives you extensive controls, so if you don't like the "default", you can tweak to taste (once you start finding all the things you can tweak!).

IOW, it's a little hard to say one is "better". Mark's comparison of two "baked in" looks (one Sony, one Panasonic) is easier to judge - which one do you like...

and of course you can always do some tweaking in "post"/edit...

The RX100 is a strange little beast, it's a "P&S" that gives you a lot of additional options... the HX's are more basic, but still do a good job in the hands of a good shooter. It sort of comes back around to what "fits" for you personally...

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Glad to herar the HX300 stood up at the school play shooting along side the cxPJ.
I shoot school plays multicam (usually one more or less locked off on a wide shot) but the 29 min limit is a show stopper because I want to sync the footage in edit just the once.
The used rx100 came yesterday and regretably the remote I bought with the HX300 does not plug in the RX100 as there are two little blips on the microusb multi terminal which prevent the jack from sliding all the way in but otherwise a very nice little camera

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Dave's distinction between cameras with a "baked-in" look versus those that have controls for the look is a good one. The Panasonic ZS30 (TZ40) and The Sony Hx50v, of the compact big-zoom cameras, pretty much have a set look. Of the small cameras with limited zoom but much more control over the video image, the RX100 and the Panasonic LX7 are in the same category. For video, from what I have seen, I think the LX7 video looks better than the RX100 video, which has more artifacts and is less sharp. But I do not have both cameras to directly compare.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

@Bruce - I was actually pleasantly surprised when I downloaded the clips... look pretty good against a camera that is dedicated video and quite a bit more expensive! The 29 minute limit really isn't that big a deal - I just waited for a short break after about the 20 minute mark... got one at around 24, double punched the movie button, and carried on - yeah, one extra clip to sync, but I'm pretty fast with that as I sync on audio peaks most of the time, then double check the visual cues.

Strange about the remote - was it supposed to be compatible? I know the microUSB on the RX100 and the HX300 must be wired a bit differently than the "common" cable used for phones, but haven't seen one not fit at all, only not work when connected!

I do think the RX100 is one of those beasts you have to take some time with and master... I wasn't impressed with the video at first, but you have to remember it's a large sensor, shallower DoF, and then find things like the DRo adjustment... I've gotten better results now that I've spent some time with the camera... And the stills really are nice just on "auto", and are closer to a DSLR than to the typical "pocket compact".

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I will interject a different camera that I didn't see mentioned. I shoot video and photos and was recently looking for a new pocket camera to complement my Canon 7D, XH-A1, and HV30. I wanted something that would take great stills, have a fast lens, and shoot great HD video. I also wanted to stay under $600 if possible. I looked at everything and for the money settled on the Canon G15. I've owned it now for two months and could not be happier with the images and video that I am getting out of this camera. It will never be my primary camera but what it lays down for video footage is simply remarkable. I would really recommend taking a look at this camera. Full 1080p at 24fps video that is very nice.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Do you like to get great HD video with compact Canon cameras? Noooo. I think Sony and Lumix are better for that price. Any small Canon cameras works on 50p; they work better on still field. Pocketable Canon cameras miss clever devices for video but they have many of them for stills.
Look here: http://www.cameralabs.com/reviews/Ca.../verdict.shtml
I cannot think to buy about pocketable Canon cameras for video. But it is only my opinion.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

This very enlightening discussion is mostly overlooking one other important aspect of video - audio. The built-in audio is all one is going to get for compact travel. My comparison of the audio of the Hx9v and the ZS30 indicated much better audio for the latter.

One of the issues is the aggressiveness of the AGC in audio - where dynamics are flattened, and soft ambient noise is pumped up.

Here is a "travel" video shot with the Panasonic ZS30, which reproduces most of the natural dynamics and levels of ambience and sounds - from singing birds to loud traffic noises and, finally, bell peals:


The video also takes advantage of the long zoom and shallow dof (!).

To visually assess the sound track dynamics, here is a screen grab of the video time-line in Vegas Pro, where you can see the ups and downs (AGC would mean the sound track would be all red, all the way) and in particular the bell clangs at the end - loud and then diminish each time:

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Whatever floats your boat I guess.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Are any of the Canons doing 50/60p? That might be a consideration that would disqualify them for me at least. I seem to recall they were adding it into some of the latest cams? I know that "24p" has been popular for a "film-ish look", but 50/60p has advantages in real world shooting.


@ Mark - you're correct about audio, it IS an important consideration - I've found the compact and SLR cameras to be a bit "weak" more often than not - some are actually more in the "horrible" category... I seem to recall the HX9V was one that did not handle audio particularly well, with distortion in loud conditions (though it might have been a different Sony compact... and there can be a lot of variation between different models!).

Since part of the "charm" of a compact camera/kit is KEEPING it small, ideally you don't want to have to add a digital recorder for "ambient" if that is part of what you're trying to capture...

Sometimes it's not that important if the intent is to add a music track anyway, but it shouldn't be ignored. I usually regard the audio from the compacts as "scratch" and "sync" when using them in a multicam shoot, but haven't noticed anything "bad" in the audio from the RX100 and HX300 in the shooting I've done. Audio from a couple tiny mics that may or may not be ideally positioned in a tiny camera body is not likely "ideal" audio by most estimations.

I'd also mention that "handling noise" is another thing to watch out for - I recall all too well the creaks and squeaks from the HV20 I tried when it was the hot new camera... completely unusable for audio unless you avoided touching the camera body, which wasn't practical - compared to the Sony construction I was used to, it was a shock.

Just one more thing to consider, and something I don't think I've seen mentioned often, if at all, in a "camera review". As we start to get better and better image capture from small capture devices, these things have to be considered - it's quite possible that a "compact" will be the most convenient capture device under a lot of conditions - but you still want to be getting the best capture of the moment!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Does anybody have made tests of Panasonic DMC-TZ40 and Sony HX20? What difference of image quality on video?

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

You saw my tests directly comparing videos from the ZS30 (TZ40) and the Sony Hx9v (you're welcome), in which the Panasonic was clearly superior in video and audio. So, a comparison of the HX9v and the Hx20v is what you need. If the Hx20v is not an improvement over the Hx9v, then you have answer. If it is, then you need more info.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I thank you for your reply but ... I'm sorry HX20V have also better lens than the DSC-HX9v... the colors, contrast and sharpness are better.
However the video at University of Virginia Campus is so beautiful. The image is so sharp and crisp that it seems made with RX100. Which were the settings?

PS: Does anybody know when HX50 will ship?

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Late to the party but here's a video shot with a Pentax Q (exterior) and Panasonic LX7:


Both camera have full manual controls, built-in ND filters, hot shoes, and built-in image stabilization. The Panasonic also has 720P/120FPS slow motion, a fast, good zoom (but sensitive to flare), and an EVF option. The Pentax Q also has a built-in intervalometer (including a way to automagically make a movie from the stills), interchangeable lenses, and tripod friendly battery and card doors. It eats batteries though. Both are under $300, the Q significantly so.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I have excluded Sony HX50 in my purchase because reading here and there I have understand it doesn't give more than HX20 in video quality. I'm considering to buy HX20 or another compact as Lumix TZ40. I'd like to see their comparison but what a pity! There is no side by side comparison on Internet between them.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

The Panasonic ZS30 (TZ40) University of Virginia Campus video was shot using Standard Color in P mode, touch spot focus allowing autofocus during shots (you can also fix focus before shooting and it will stay at that focus), and controlling exposure using ev adjustment (a lot). Auto WB. All handheld, and all shot in about an hour total.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

This is what you CANNOT do on the Hx50v or Hx20v in *video* mode that you CAN on the ZS30:

1. Change the White Balance. Yes, that is correct. Must be auto.

2. Fix the focus (must be auto).

3. Choose the color mode (no vivid versus standard, B&W).

4. Use many "creative effects", like one color, etc.

5. The Hx20v does not have a touch screen. You cannot do a focus pull while shooting.

There is nothing that the ZS30 cannot do that the Hx50v can.

For a list of what the Sony Hx20v CANNOT do in movie mode, see:

DSC-HX20/HX20V/HX30/HX30V | MENU items not available in some REC modes | Cyber-shot User Guide

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

If I have to be sincere I like a lot the features and options of Lumix TZ40 but I have to be sure about its image quality vs Sony HX20. Camera Labs gives it a no good score about its image quality:
Panasonic Lumix TZ40 / ZS30 vs Canon SX280 vs Sony WX300 | Cameralabs
When I will know its image is better than HX20 I will buy Lumix TZ40.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Adriano, do the attributes that Mark has listed really turn you on? Have you considered ‘handling’ as in how the cameras are to actually use, hold with both hands (or one hand if that’s your preference) and how they slip into the pocket and so on?

And there are two things the HX50v can do that the ZS30 cannot do the first being the HX50v can accept an EVF while to the best of my knowledge that is not possible with the ZS30. The second thing the HX50v does that the ZS30 does not do is to produce colors that please ME.

Both points are extremely important for me. So you see I wouldn’t even consider the ZS30 (even if it came with free beer for a month or more).

Of course this is not to say that Mark’s preference for the ZS30 is wrong; just different that’s all, and that’s a good thing, I reckon. Isn’t it great we are not all the same and that we have choices?

Why not get one of each and make an informed decision based on your own experience. Comparing specifications is fine and dandy but at the end of the day how you (not me nor Mark nor Camera Labs) feel about handling and the end results are all that matter.

You might even decide to keep both!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Let's be clear: the HX50v viewfinder, as far as I can tell, is $449. With the viewfinder, that means you have a $900 camera. And a camera that is not pocketable with the bulky viewfinder. The expensive viewfinder + camera seems absurd (it does not please ME). For that money you can get an excellent dedicated camcorder with more controls that is no bigger.

I agree completely that comparing specs does not give the whole story, for sure. And there is a subjective element to the final product too. Which is why I actually shot a comparative video so you can see for yourself and judge for yourself. Just not of the cameras under question. In the absence of that comparative video - TZ40 versus Hx30v - specs and capabilities (like high-speed mode and white balance set) are relevant, if not everything.

Indeed, how does one determine which video pleases one without actually having video of the same exact scenes at the same time shot by both cameras? That is what we would like to see. And thus anyone who claims they like one camera or another's video color without such a comparison, which is as far as we know nonexistent for the cameras in question, must be based on ?

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Dear Mark,
I don't understand fine if Lumix TZ40 has a button to exposure lock or do I have to enter into the options? Do you know if in Sony HX20 there is it?

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

The way it works on the ZS30 (TZ40): it is a menu option. You either allow autofocus to be on while shooting or off. If the latter the focus is fixed at the point when you start the shot (which you can set using finger spot focus on the touch screen, for example) and will never move. Autofocus in video (if you select that) has the usual tracking options.

There is no option about focus in movie mode that I can find on the Hx20v, or Hx50v or Hx9v except maybe face-recognition.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

If the Panasonics have spot focus/exposure, that would be a VERY handy feature, IMO...

I'm used to it on the higher end CX/PJ Sonys, and it is one thing I miss on the Cybershots that aren't touchscreen. It's funny how quick one gets used to certain camera features (like having a touchscreen, for those things it does well!).

THIS is why "hands on" becomes vitally important - because of having used prior HXx00 series cameras, I literally can manipulate the HX300 in the dark (just did last night!). Would it be nifty if it had touchscreen and maybe more of "this" or "that"... maybe... but I find it to be very comfortable to use and efficient to shoot with. I tried the HX9, and just couldn't "get" the smaller form factor - it did not "connect" for me, even though I shoot other Sonys... But I seem to manage with the even more compact (and crammed full of adjustments) RX100. And I'll admit to TRYING to make "touchsceen adjustments" only to realize the camera in hand doesn't HAVE those... DOH!



One CANNOT just look at "samples" as I've previously pointed out - too many variables. One CANNOT just read and randomly interpret "reviews", they are "opinions" by a user who may have had little time to learn how to optimize a particular camera.

YES, it's not a bad idea to do SOME research before you go to the camera store (either offline or on), but in the end YOU still have to be happy with the image quality you can achieve once you learn how to best use the camera, and must be the one who is happy with how it 'handles", and how it fits your intended style of use!

There is not a "one camera for every user" out there, PERIOD. There isn't a "one camera does it all" (and does it all well) solution... There ARE an increasing number of compact P&S still cameras that ALSO shoot darn fine HD video and fit in your pocket so you always have a reasonably high quality image capture device at your fingertips.

In the end, the camera you have WITH YOU when opportunity gives you the "perfect shot" is the ONLY one that counts! And of course having a camera you are comfortable with and can adjust to GET that perfect shot or clip is a big part of the consideration!


I know these aren't video, but here are a couple shots that just presented themselves... the moon shot would not have been possible without the insane zoom on the HX300 (and the easy EV adjustment was also needed, as was a braced position!), the other was a long exposure, again something that not every camera will have... I put these up to illustrate that not everyone has the same "expectations" of their camera, and that sometimes you want more creative control.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Hello, I have found a good price for Sony HX20 on Amazon. It is 240 euros. I have just verified at shop in my town and its price is 330 euros. On Amazon I have read some reviews by users and they tell Amazon buys the camera from China. Will it be true? Is there the origin printed on the camera?

This is the review on Amazon:
"The product is Made in China, as opposed to what I had seen on other stores.
Sony has confirmed to me that there were two different productions, so this explains different origins and the difference of price on Sony.com".

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Of all the things that have been identified there are a few missing as needed for me in a small pocketable camera intended for capturing real events. How quick from pocket will it take a good photo or video and do you already own accessories that would fit the new camera. ( In my case I had batteries and travel charger for Sony so got the HX30V ). In this situation my expectation is everything is in auto. Power on, point and shoot. If there is time for a set up then the choices now move to a lot of cameras with manual controls etc etc that can fit in a small bag. If video is important a video camera that will shoot stills is now on the list and will shoot better video etc etc. One of the new small Sony's with projector is a good travel cam and you can look at your own as well as other peoples shots on the wall. I take on my ski trips the HX30V, NX30U and a GoPro Hero 3 Black Edition all fit in a small bag for travel. On the hill its the GoPro on my helmet and the HX30V in my pocket. For real, handheld video its the NX30U and to go out in the evening the HX30V is again in my pocket.

If absolute performance is your aim then you will need to spend more money than you are looking at with these small cameras. But for most people they will not see the difference if viewed on computer or TV.

These small cameras are not expensive so buy two of them and then sell the one you do not like as much. You will be a lot further ahead than keep asking questions and looking at video or stills from test sites.

Ron Evans