Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Ron re-affirms what I've said, time to BUY a camera, not noodle around looking at other peoples "opinions"!

And thanks Ron for making me feel like I"m not the only nut who takes a mini-camera store along with (it's worse for me because the whole family shoots...). Right now an RX100 and the HX300 are the first picks, but I've got various TX series because they are compact or in some cases ruggedized... the "real" video cams and SLT's don't get as much use when there are smaller alternatives!



Adriano - Sony has been transitioning a lot of their production to Chinese factories from what I can find out there - early RX100's are Japanese, later ones are Chinese... the TX10 was MIJ, the TX20 is MIC. Like so many companies, they are trying to cut costs. If I had to guess, the HX20/30 was probably MIJ initially, and there may be stock in the channels, and later production is MIC. I've looked at a few discussions on this, and there doesn't appear to be any significant difference in quality, despite the perception.

You SHOULD make sure that you aren't getting a "grey market" camera, but one that is intended for sale and warranty in YOUR country, unless you just buy a lightly used one at an even better price! I'm sure the HX20 is on "closeout", so prices should be pretty soft on both "new" and used... and that seems to be the one that's caught your fancy. It's not so expensive that you can't use it as a backup if you decide something else is "better"!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

At the end I have bought a Sony HX20. I have bougth it because I like to realize how good is the video with these small cameras. I have made some shots yesterday and I have to tell I like its video but I'm noticing it gives less definition than a good HD videocamera even in high light. Even if it is not a big problem I hope I'm wrong. Anyway, I'll have to use it again for a long time to be able to say what I'm saying.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Is it possible in video mode on the Sony hx300 to use the camera in manual? or is this strictly an auto video camera.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

In video mode, you can adjust exposure compensation, otherwise, it's press record and go. Still takes nice video though, can't complain about the results. There is a "high ISO" setting for low light in the video menus - and it does let the camera shoot surprisingly well in low light. It's a still camera with a very nice capable video function as a bonus.

I'm actually comfortable shooting video with the top end HX, got lots of good stuff with the HX100, 200, and now the 300.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Thanks David,

Shame that there's no manual mode. What do you do if you have high backlight that you need to blow out so the foreground is exposed?

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Simon - If you want manual exposure control in video mode, you may want to look at the Panasonic FZ200. It features a constant aperture f2.8 zoom lens, an external mic jack and full manual control of exposure in Creative Movie mode.

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Simon -

Well, the camera handles MOST exposure situations well automatically - Sony uses facial recognition, so you can expect the exposure to try to adjust to best expose a face in a backlit situation - it just does it... much faster than you could "think" it through manually.

IF you want to alter the auto setting, it's a breeze on this camera - just tap the wheel that at least for me is right under my thumb, that activates EV shift, and you turn that wheel to compensate the camera's exposure settings - you can do it while recording, it works quick and easy, and since I don't really want to be digging around fiddling with "manual" settings, I'm good with it.

"Manual" control is fine and dandy when you have time to think and adjust, but I'll take a one press/spin solution for shooting any live event. EV shift works very well to adjust if and when auto just isn't quite spot on. I don't feel "limited" because I can't play with aperture or shutter.


The FZ200 Bill mentions is another camera in this same general class, and has many features that Sony would be wise to "adopt", lots of things you can "fiddle with" if desired. The 2.8 aperture over the full lens range is great, the VF is more usable, lots to like...

Probably due to familiarity with the interface/control layout, and image compatibility with other Sony cams, I still prefer the HX300... both stills and video look somehow slightly better to my eye, and that also counts for something.

IMO you can't go "wrong" with either camera, and in terms of bang for the buck, you get a lot when you buy one of these "superzoom bridge cameras" - very close to a Swiss army knife of cameras... reasonably "small", easy to work with and do most things decently well.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Thanks David & Bill for your response, it's info like this that makes these forums great. I'm going to test the Sony today and I'll try and find a FZ200 also. I think auto will be fine for what I need, I'm after one of these cameras for picking up quickly and pointing and shoot.

Cheers guys.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

The nice long lens on the HX300 is quite sensitive to any vibration at least on my unit which was bought as a refurb for 1/2 the retail last fall when they first came out.
I get a little "twitching" in the video here and there after a live zoom and when I remove my hand from the tripod pan handle. Was using an adapter on the tripod head with additional cold-shoes and also because it provided a nice big handle. so the HX300 was not locked down solidly on the Manfrotto mounting plate and that's when this slight twitching of the lens occurred which the viewer would see as a slight camera jiggle. I'm uber-careful to eliminate any unwanted camera movement so I always use a tripod when shooting sports and dance etc.
I've since taken the adapter out from between the head and the camera and the twitching has gone for the most part.
It seemed to be some sort of tension back-lash built up in the len's stabilization system but as I say mine was a refurb. If I grasp the end of the lens when it's extended and wiggle, the whole barrel readily moves almost to an alarming extent.
btw though I'm still tickled pink with the HX300

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

You can't go too far wrong with either camera. I've had Sony's version of this model (HXx00) for several years, whatever the current one happens to be. I like the way they handle, for want of a better description.

I'd definitely say Sony should pick up on some of the features of the Panny as well, but I like the look of the stills and video better straight out of the camera with the Sony. If I can figure out a way to tweak the color rendition, I'm still tempted to keep the FZ - it's got some excellent features, and you can easily use it for quick point and shoot, plus it's "adjustable" if you want to explore further.

Keep in mind both these cameras have fairly small sensors, similar to most consumer video and P&S cameras, so don't expect "DSLR" look, these are "high end" P&S cameras, with decent video functions, and a little more control over your shots. For the prices, you get a lot.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Thanks Dave, I cant seem to find one here in local shops and it looks like they are NTSC only which is odd.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Simon - I was able to find a couple of eBay Australia listings for PAL FZ200s:

The first is a $799 unit from Oz Digital Online in Sydney and the second is $750 from Photopro in Melbourne.

This camera is also capable of shooting at 720/100p slow motion, which you may find interesting.

Here is a nice little effects piece featuring FZ200 slow motion (please watch at 720p):



Again, hope this is helpful,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Thanks Bill,

I really want the Sony but I'll have to think things out again and the Panasonic FZ200 is in my radar.

Cheers

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I've had the HX300 for a while, and got an FZ200 to test - still debating whether it's a keeper. Many things to like, but a few quirks.

The plusses to the 200 are a better VF, the slo mo capability, the fast continuous ap lens, more manual control, and you can also use creative filters while shooting video. On the downside, I definitely see the 12MP vs. 20Mp - stills are OK, but I'd take the Sony on that count. Video looks pretty good, but again I think the Sony is a bit cleaner and does a bit better with low light (excepting where that fast lens gives the Panny a big leg up if you have to zoom in).

I'm still a bit mixed on how the Panasonic renders skin tones - they look a bit off to my eye, and so far I haven't figured a way to tweak them... that if anything may be the deal breaker as I expect people to look "good" and healthy... I definitely have a "memory" with Sony controls, so it's easier for me to work with, the ergonomics seem a tad better on the Sony, but the Panasonic swivel VF is a nice touch.

At the moment the HX300 and an RX100M2 are my "go to" package - a lot of imaging capability in a tiny bag! I could probably just as easily have the FZ200 in that bag. You really can't go wrong either way, I know that sounds silly, but in this case both cams will "point and shoot" with good results, the Panny has some strong points, the Sony has others... I'd love to Frankenstein the two together into ONE monster camera!!

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

I agree 100%. I would love to have Sony's resolution and color reproduction added to Panasonic's mic inputs, standard hot shoe, swivel LCD and slow motion!

I really don't understand why Sony refuses to put mic jacks and standard hot shoes on their consumer cameras, even the high end RX100.

I would buy a Sony superzoom in a heartbeat if it had a mic jack and standard hot shoe. Until then, I'll hang on to the old FZ150 :)

Cheers,

Bill
Hybrid Camera Revolution

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Hopefully Sony is listening <wink> - that list is pretty much the same as mine for an "HX500" (I hear 4 is bad luck in Japanese tradition!).

I can say that ALL of those things are easily doable in a camera the size of the HXx00 series - the RX100, not enough room inside that thing to squeeze in a flea! I've had both cameras stripped down to bones in the last couple days (one to fix, one to see what was left after being run over by a truck by the look of it!).

Sony HAS put the hot shoe (with additional custom contacts for Sony attachments) on the RX100M2, and the HX50, so that should be easy. A mic jack shouldn't be hard (actually is probably a simple adapter through the Sony shoe contacts, like on the old HC Handycams!), but I can live with dual record too. I'd add a better VF than the 300 has. A swivel screen would be "better" that the current design, though I can live with the tilt most of the time, keep the Sony image quality, figure out the continuous aperture, ability to record in the FX modes (the RX100 can do some of them), and add a better slo-mo (I think the Panasonic gets away with it from the lower pixel density sensor so it doesn't overheat with the continuous higher bitrate required).

Of course it would be really nice if it had a sensor like the RX100, BUT the lens would then have to be HUGE - the smaller sensor lets them put that crazy 50X thing in a reasonable package! I figure if I'm shooting close range, the RX100 fits the bill, and the HX is there to get the longer shots, or if I need a VF to frame. I've shot the tow side by side, and the HX300 is no slouch, it takes a trained eye to see exactly where the RX100 is better, though I suspect the M2 has widened that gap (haven't shot those side by side yet... SOON!).

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

Which of the cameras mentioned in this thread has the widest angle lens? I am looking for something that will get a whole soccer field from the top of high school bleachers. I can't seem to find a regular video camera with a wide angle, so reading about these they may fit the bill.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

HX300 (HX400 just announced, soon to release, added the MIS shoe, not anything else immediately apparent, perhaps faster processor), roughly 32-35mm equivalent wide angle in video mode.

DSC RX10 (new, announced and released since this thread, expensive, and worth it), 29-31mm equivalent in video mode. RX100M2 has wider, but weaker zoom, so it's tough to get in tight from a distance.

With these dual mode cameras, you have to check the lens range as it changes when the ratio is 16:9 vs. a 3:2 or 4:3.

Sony CX and PJ7xx series cameras are 29mm equiv if memory serves, and about as wide as you can get unless you go "fisheye", and you might be able to add a wide angle adapter to gain a little more (IIRC the HGA 07B doesn't vignette unless you're moving the camera around... the active IS will move enough you can get the lens in the corners).

If you ONLY need wide, the RX100M2 might do the trick, but if you also need to get tighter shots, you'll need a lens with more long end.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

The sony cx7xx series start at 26mm wide angle which is very wide for a fixed lens camera.

Re: Are there any compact cameras recording like a good videocamera?
 

The PJ7xx series uses the same lens block, and would be the same 26mm too then... PJ designates "projector" models which are mirrored by "CX" series (that don't have a projector built in). There is also the NX30 in the pro line, which is more or less a PJ760 with an added audio block/mic.

US models from the last two model years would be CX760, PJ760, PJ710, PJ790, EU models have a slightly different numbering scheme...

Again, if it's strictly a fixed wide "safety" shot, the RX100M2 has a wider lens and is very small... but its own set of limitations due to small size. I'm thinking it might work as one component for a multicam shoot, but I'm not sure about the requirements... "whole soccer field" when on wide is a little bit broad...