Simplied overview of PC-based editors at DVinfo.net

Brett Cole · June 26th, 2007, 02:25 PM

Is this an accurate overview of performance and rendering schemes?

1) Canopus - pretty much real-time editing, re-encodes everything, medium to fast renders
2) Vegas - not real-time editing, no hardware acceleration possible, re-encodes everything, slow renders
3) Premiere - pretty much real-time editing but only with expensive hardware (Matrox), re-encodes everything, unsure about rendering speed
4) Mpeg Video Wizard (Womble) - not real-time editing, re-encodes only modified content, fast renders
5) Speed Edit - Pretty much real-time editing, does not employ or support hardware acceleration, re-encodes only modified content, fast renders
6) Xpress or Liquid - pretty much real-time editing, Unsure about hardware acceleration, re-encodes everything, Unsure about rendering speed

I'm not too well-versed in the topic, but I would like to see a simple overview list like this completed and made accurate

Thanks

K. Tessman · June 26th, 2007, 08:34 PM

Premiere Pro with Cineform allows real-time HD editing, including basic transitions and simple effects without rendering. No additional hardware required, expensive or not. Not sure what you mean about "re-encodes everything".

Jon McGuffin · June 26th, 2007, 08:55 PM

I have to stick up for Vegas here. Not sure why it's not considered a real time editor. It frankly just depends on what you are editing, how complex the edits are, and how fast your computer is. With my Core 2 Duo machine, I can edit standard DV footage in real time, export in real time, transitions, the whole ball of wax. When I work with HDV that's a little bit of a different story but frankly, I'm very satisifed with the performance Vegas offers for HD content. You don't even need Cineform to achieve this.

Jon

Graham Hickling · June 26th, 2007, 11:28 PM

Are you refering specifically to editing of raw transport stream HDV footage?

Because for normal avi-type footage (e.g. Cineform or DV) Premiere certainly doesn't 're-encode everything'!

Bill Mecca · June 27th, 2007, 08:02 AM

okay maybe I'm a dullard (only been doing this since 3/4 inch) but maybe someone could define "real-time" editing for me. I use Avid and Vegas, is this an HD thing?

Chris Hurd · June 27th, 2007, 08:12 AM

Hi Bill, from a former U-Matic cutter...

"Real Time" meaning, no waiting around for rendering. Put a 30-frame cross cut on the timeline and play it back immediately instead of sitting around for a minute or two for it to fully render. Starting back in 1997 for about five years I was a huge proponent of Canopus (now owned by Grass Valley) because at that point they were the only viable NLE that offered real-time editing without rendering -- not only titles and simple transitions, but complicated transitions and effects as well. It took years for other companies to catch up... I remember wondering why so much attention was lavished on Final Cut Pro when using it meant having to wait for rendering even on simple lower-third titles. Then I realized that it was the best you could get with a Mac at the time. Things have certainly changed since then, in many ways.

But anyway that's what's meant by "real time" editing -- it's editing without having to wait for renders.

Emre Safak · June 27th, 2007, 08:42 AM

There is rendering for encoding and rendering for viewing. Vegas does the latter in real-time but not the former.

Paul Lara · June 27th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brett Cole

Is this an accurate overview of performance and rendering schemes?

[snip]

5) Speed Edit - Pretty much real-time editing, does not employ or support hardware acceleration, re-encodes only modified content, fast renders

Hi, Brett!
SpeedEDIT exceeds notions of "pretty much" real-time, to real real-time.
Not just a selected list of real-time transitions, but anything you wish to do, most notably titles, color correction and clip movements. It's perhaps most enjoyed for its streamlined next-gen workflow.

Just that heads-up that NewTek is poised to release SpeedEDIT 1.2, with native DVCPro HD editing, and VST plug-in support in July.

Bill Mecca · June 28th, 2007, 01:32 PM

Thanks Chris,

I started using an Avid in 1995, and that was a pain, I could preview the dissolves etc frame by frame but not play. Using Avid XDV and real-time previews etc, and Vegas the same way. (thus my slight confusion over the real-time editing question, I thought maybe it was something new that I missed)

On a side note, one of the things I loved about Avid was how it only rendered the changes (effects graphics etc) and then print to tape. All the others I looked at had to render an entire avi file of the timeline.

These days though, with having to encode to mp2 for DVD, that added value is highly diminished.

(I still have some U-matic gear... not sure if it will fire up.. all those old tapes from my TV news reporter days... someday I will transfer them!)

June 26th, 2007, 02:25 PM	#1
Brett Cole Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Eugene, OR Posts: 26	Simplied overview of PC-based editors Is this an accurate overview of performance and rendering schemes? 1) Canopus - pretty much real-time editing, re-encodes everything, medium to fast renders 2) Vegas - not real-time editing, no hardware acceleration possible, re-encodes everything, slow renders 3) Premiere - pretty much real-time editing but only with expensive hardware (Matrox), re-encodes everything, unsure about rendering speed 4) Mpeg Video Wizard (Womble) - not real-time editing, re-encodes only modified content, fast renders 5) Speed Edit - Pretty much real-time editing, does not employ or support hardware acceleration, re-encodes only modified content, fast renders 6) Xpress or Liquid - pretty much real-time editing, Unsure about hardware acceleration, re-encodes everything, Unsure about rendering speed I'm not too well-versed in the topic, but I would like to see a simple overview list like this completed and made accurate Thanks Last edited by Brett Cole; June 26th, 2007 at 06:12 PM.

June 27th, 2007, 08:02 AM	#5
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	okay maybe I'm a dullard (only been doing this since 3/4 inch) but maybe someone could define "real-time" editing for me. I use Avid and Vegas, is this an HD thing? __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

June 27th, 2007, 08:12 AM	#6
Chris Hurd Obstreperous Rex Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: San Marcos, TX Posts: 27,366 Images: 513	Hi Bill, from a former U-Matic cutter... "Real Time" meaning, no waiting around for rendering. Put a 30-frame cross cut on the timeline and play it back immediately instead of sitting around for a minute or two for it to fully render. Starting back in 1997 for about five years I was a huge proponent of Canopus (now owned by Grass Valley) because at that point they were the only viable NLE that offered real-time editing without rendering -- not only titles and simple transitions, but complicated transitions and effects as well. It took years for other companies to catch up... I remember wondering why so much attention was lavished on Final Cut Pro when using it meant having to wait for rendering even on simple lower-third titles. Then I realized that it was the best you could get with a Mac at the time. Things have certainly changed since then, in many ways. But anyway that's what's meant by "real time" editing -- it's editing without having to wait for renders. __________________ CH Search DV Info Net \| 20 years of DVi \| ...Tuesday is Soylent Green Day!

June 28th, 2007, 01:32 PM	#9
Bill Mecca Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: New Jersey Posts: 475	Thanks Chris, I started using an Avid in 1995, and that was a pain, I could preview the dissolves etc frame by frame but not play. Using Avid XDV and real-time previews etc, and Vegas the same way. (thus my slight confusion over the real-time editing question, I thought maybe it was something new that I missed) On a side note, one of the things I loved about Avid was how it only rendered the changes (effects graphics etc) and then print to tape. All the others I looked at had to render an entire avi file of the timeline. These days though, with having to encode to mp2 for DVD, that added value is highly diminished. (I still have some U-matic gear... not sure if it will fire up.. all those old tapes from my TV news reporter days... someday I will transfer them!) __________________ Award-winning Pine Barrens Documentary! Video, Audio, Music & More

June 26th, 2007, 08:34 PM	#2
K. Tessman Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 66	Premiere Pro with Cineform allows real-time HD editing, including basic transitions and simple effects without rendering. No additional hardware required, expensive or not. Not sure what you mean about "re-encodes everything".

June 26th, 2007, 08:55 PM	#3
Jon McGuffin Major Player Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 634	I have to stick up for Vegas here. Not sure why it's not considered a real time editor. It frankly just depends on what you are editing, how complex the edits are, and how fast your computer is. With my Core 2 Duo machine, I can edit standard DV footage in real time, export in real time, transitions, the whole ball of wax. When I work with HDV that's a little bit of a different story but frankly, I'm very satisifed with the performance Vegas offers for HD content. You don't even need Cineform to achieve this. Jon

June 26th, 2007, 11:28 PM	#4
Graham Hickling Trustee Join Date: May 2004 Location: Knoxville, Tennessee Posts: 1,669	Are you refering specifically to editing of raw transport stream HDV footage? Because for normal avi-type footage (e.g. Cineform or DV) Premiere certainly doesn't 're-encode everything'!

June 27th, 2007, 08:42 AM	#7
Emre Safak Trustee Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Brookline, MA Posts: 1,447	There is rendering for encoding and rendering for viewing. Vegas does the latter in real-time but not the former.