New US air travel rules for cam. batteries
 

From Jan 1 08 there are new US air travel regs for lithium batteries.

http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html

A charger is a "device". So if you install the spares in a charger you might be able to check them.

That'd at least be something. I'd always hate to leave batteries behind, especially going anywhere requiring flight to get to!

I think it's time for me to do the research on lithium content on my batteries...

C

The travel restrictions in the US are completely ungrounded (no pun intended!) in reality.

They should restrict the number of pens or pencils in case you have a sudden urge to stab someone in the jugular.

I wonder who decides these idiotic things that serve no purpose other than to remind travelers of the boogie man.

I don't know.... when I saw that video of the exploding Dell laptop which started all the recalls, the first thing I thought was "what if he had been in an airplane?" There seem to be some legitimate safety concerns regarding these things. I'm not thinking of a terrorist, just a guy sitting next to me with a laptop that explodes :-0

Insane?

No. Just not what you happen to want is all.

It seems to be a reasonable compromise on what is a well known and proven fire risk. The industry would probably prefer you did not take a lithium battery aboard an aircraft at all.

A bit of common sense layman's logic, not science follows so it is well in the firing line of repudiation and debate. So read on and then have at it with vigor.

The "carry-on" luggage requirement is about the lithium battery being accessable in the event it goes off. The prospect of a small concentrated and toxic fire in an aircraft cabin is not a happy one but intervention can be assured and attempts made to contain the burning battery.

If it is buried inaccessably deep in the baggage hold when it goes off, every body is there for the ride wherever it takes them as the fire may spread uncontrollably. The journey is down sooner or later. The landing is another matter.

It is not improbable for somebody who wants to bring down an aircraft to rig a lithium battery to consume itself or substitute within the battery cores something more sinister that might escape detection though being masked by the lithium or falsely representing the cores to the xray detection.

We have had recent revelations about how infallible that system is haven't we.

If you were to do a poll of other aircraft travellers as to whether their rights to fly as safely as possible in the current environment should be made subordinate to your desire to transport your batteries without any controls, you may find yourself on the losing end of an argument.

It is a hassle for sure but like everything else in this life, one has to organise and plan around it.

Imagine 10xA380s at the gates, too awful to contemplate.

Start getting a list of lithium in the batteries. Stick it on each one I guess.

To add to the confusion, read this...
 

Anton Bauer Lithium Ion batteries transportation information
 

That's certainly a very valid point but the new regulations are not in line with that sensibility.

Li-Ion batteries installed in their host equipment are not subject to the limitations - but what if your laptop is in the overhead bin?

That's why I believe the regulations are inappropriate. No more than 3oz of liquids and gells - what about pastes??? As a chemist by training, I can think of many ways of creating havoc within the limits.

Domestically, you can take small pets into the main cabin. It's a matter of time before that becomes a security/safety risk. From the wanton damage angle, explosives inserted into the animal could currently get through undetected (pets aren't subject to x-ray scanning or rectal examination).

I get the impression that within the US, safety issues are about probabilities and not absolutes.

Well...it all comes down to this.
Since 9/11 we all know it's been difficult to do our jobs with our equipment...if you have to fly to locations.

Since you can't lock your equipment cases any more...(use of an authorized TSA lock is okay...but they are flimsy and found to be easily broken off cases)...I've been shipping my equipment ahead of my travel.

I ship it FedEx ...have a tracking number....it's insured for the value of the gear and when I get to my hotel....voila !

I don't have to worry about schlepping heavy batteries, chargers, monitors...mics...etc. I carryon the camera, and one battery. I usually ship my gear 2 days ahead ...if possible. Save on the shipping ..PLUS any kind of kinks in getting the gear there.

I charge the client for this...and haven't had a problem. I've also found this is a better solution from when I had 6 cases of gear....and trying to get it on the airline....because...

Every airline had different "standards"...weight, size....etc. You never knew what to expect. Even the same airline would treat cases differently from one airport to another. Tripod case is too large....charge you $50 extra in Atlanta....but in Baltimore...no problem.

Also...the airlines don't give a squat about your gear or luggage. IF anything happens...they're liable for 100.00 TOPS. And you're in for the fight of your life for that little amount.

Shipping with a FEDEX or UPS...and INSURING your shippment GUARANTEES you can track your gear...AND if something happens ...you have a recourse. I shipped my Steadicam back from Vegas a few years back...and it was damaged. Fedex not only paid for the repairs....but for lost time...and jobs.

OHHH...they came and looked at the case...and how it was shipped....but couldn't dispute the insurance that I had placed on the unit.

So...I guess I'm saying...even thought I don't like the changes...I guess I understand them. And frankly...not having to heave equipment cases around in an airport any more doesn't bother me one bit.

A little food for thought !

That makes sense about loose batteries, especially Li-ion. But then that's common sense, isn't it?

Even for batteries installed in their equipment, I always either install at least one the wrong way to prevent accidently energizing of the equipment or use pieces of cardboard or plastic to insulation at least one cell from the equipment's connections.

This latter method is in line with IATA regulations that prohibit electronic goods from being transported with batteries installed. That's why they are often packed separately or you find plastic films in the battery compartments.

Word of warning - don't use Fed Ex Ground as I have found out. I bought a used DSR-11 off eBay and the seller sent it Fed Ex Ground. No problem, we both tracked it and everything seemed to be going okay. Then it got stuck in Charlotte. After waiting the required amount of time, both the seller and I contacted Fed Ex Ground. They couldn't find the package. That's what the insurance is for, we thought. The seller put in a claim. Fed Ex Ground refused it. At this point, the seller had my money and Fed Ex Ground had lost the package. The seller refunded my money. Ultimately, Fed Ex Ground never did pay out even though the package was shipped with the necessary insurance coverage.

Fed Ex Ground's "reason" was a little known get-out clause in their terms and conditions. Basically, they can choose to use a third-party company to fulfill part or all of the shipment. Usually, this is the final out-for-delivery stage but not always. Fed Ex Ground claim that they are not responsible for lost packages while in the "care" of the third-party agent. However, the customer cannot possibly know if a third-party agent will be used or not for their particular shipment.

Since that experience, I refuse to let anyone ship anything to me Fed Ex Ground.

Note, this is a Fed Ex Ground affair, not Fed Ex proper. They are separate entities.

QUOTE "Fed Ex Ground's "reason" was a little known get-out clause in their terms and conditions. Basically, they can choose to use a third-party company to fulfill part or all of the shipment."

Fed Ex Ground has just lost some business on the basis of their behaviour.

It would be interesting for them to know that forums like this exist and I would not be surprised if there was a change in policy which insured losses so that the customer would be paid out and secondary recovery from the "loser" of the consignment undertaken by Fed Ex Ground.

This business model is simply bad, unthorough and expedient, the product of overleaning for maximising profit, short term gains versus long term viability.

Might be worthwhile dropping Fed Ex Ground's topdogs a link to this discussion and the original claim might just happen to be re-opened and settled favourably in corporate self-interest dressed up as "good-neighbourliness".

Fed Ex Ground might find itself on the wrong end of the Trade Practices Act if they pulled this on in Australia unless that "out" clause is well evident to the customer. Fed Ex Ground versus Fed Ex as separate entities. Fed Ex air has more than a little interest in this anomaly and should probably do as big a 500lb gorilla-sit on the Fed Ex Ground business entity as possible because the overall brand takes a hit regardless.

How much does a Sony FH100 have? If it's too much I have no idea about flying with it.

Interesting about FedEx Ground. I know they are a different company from Express...

I have only shipped Express...usually priority or 2nd day.


In shipping FEDEX Ground.....it takes too long for the equipment to get to the location...OR it gets there a day or two early...which means it can sit around and be a possibility for theft.

Thanks again for the "bad" news about Ground.

I'm so amazed that all this big companies...ie: airlines, shipping companies...etc can enforce these ridiclious "hidden" guidelines in their business. I know..it's probably on some piece of paper..in 2pt. font when you do the shipping bill....but it's amazing.

If all of us ran our business this way...we'd be out of business. I know they're dealing with MILLIONS of customers a day....but still.

I think I heard that FedEx ships over a million packages a day. They have a 99% success ratio each day. That means that 100,000 packages didn't get to the right place. Alot of packages....but also 100k people that are seriously bummed.

Our shipping department always ships expensive/insured items overnight. The package is always moving and is placed right on the plane. Second on the list is avoiding saturday deliveries if possible.

This picture is self explanatory. A recent incident with a video crew traveling on assignment to cover Anna Nichole Smith death... http://dolgin.net/Li-IonFire.jpg Also, there was a total loss of a UPS plane last year (after emergency landing)

regarding Fed Ex:

I actually did know this about Fed Ex Ground. Where I live, the Fed Ex Ground 'third party contractor' only delivers two days a week.....and you never know which days they will be. If you happen to be out you won't get the package. I have had a HUGE problem with them because of this. However, I have had a problem with Fed Ex in general. Four different times, I needed something within two or three days and paid $150 extra to have it shipped Fed Ex next day air. EVERY TIME it didn't get to me in time. When I attempted to get a refund, I found that Fed Ex has an out clause for shipping to Alaska, basically they don't have to honor their on time guarantee for shipping here. Ever since then I will us ANYONE other than Fed Ex.....maybe it's petty but I refuse to give my business to a company after having that happen to me.

Here's a video of a Li-ion battery catching fire in a laptop.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWq6rWzChw

Keep the thread on topic please....
 

We have a no-rant policy here at DVINFO and this thread is supposed to be about air travel with lithium type batteries. This is not supposed to be a rant session on a particular freight company's policies or shortcomings.

Thanks,

-gb-

I fully understand the seriousness of the chemical fire that can occur. That's why I can't understand the arbitrary nature of the restrictions. If such incidents can lead to loss of an aircraft then active use of any electronic items using such batteries should be prohibited. Period.

The notion that if the fire starts while someone is operating the equipment makes it safer is nonsense. Looking at the video posted to this thread, if such a thing happened, there would be immediate panic in the cabin. The owner of the equipment would have little idea how to react in a calm and safe manner.

Like I said, the mentality towards safety is one of probabilities rather than absolutes. i.e., dollars vs lives.

OK, then. I travel with 4-5 IDX Lithium-Ion bricks for my BetaCam and HDCam with a capacity about 70-80 WH each.

I normally have them in a Pelican case with the segmented interior, each brick in its own little compartment. How am I supposed to transport them with the rest of my gear in a manner that's more safe than that, and which the TSA will allow?

Technically, wouldn't shipping them ahead FedEx have the same issues as shipping them on a plane with my other equipment cases?

AP and other news reports are INCORRECT
 

People
Unfortunately shoddy reporting is starting all sorts of panic.

Here is a link to a website where the calculation of lithium content and real implications of the Li-Ion rules are:

http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=22191

Sorry to the admin if this is against the rules. Just too much info to copy and paste.

Basically, most batteries should be under 8g of lithium and we are allowed to carry as many as we like.

No..... We are allowed to carry up to a total of 25g. If like that site says, the Sony F970 battery - 7000mAh = 4.2g... We could bring a total of 5. Not unlimited under 8g.... over 8g is *not* permitted, period. Under 8g has the aggregate max.

C

They limit to 2 spare batteries. Look at the "special case" in the table...

Carl

I left out the "how" part. You are allowed to hand carry as many lithium batteries as you like so long as it is under the 8g rule.

What is forbidden is spare batteries in the checked luggage. The 25g is the aggregate of the batteries over 8g. You are also allowed to have anything under 25g lithium content battery installed in the equipment as checked luggage. Please read the link in the first post. That is from DOT and is the official release.

This release says up to 2 spare batteries under "special case". All other references are to a single spare battery for a device, not numerious spare batteries for a device.

That is my point. The other references (AP report, yahoo etc) are wrong.

Read the DOT release:

Under the new rules, you can bring batteries with up to 8-gram equivalent lithium content. All lithium ion batteries in cell phones are below 8 gram equivalent lithium content. Nearly all laptop computers also are below this quantity threshold.

You can also bring up to two spare batteries with an aggregate equivalent lithium content of up to 25 grams, in addition to any batteries that fall below the 8-gram threshold.

That means any battery under 8g content is allowed. There is no aggregate or limitation to quantity of any batteries under 8g of lithium content.

I believe the intention is that you can have a spare battery for each device under the 8 gram threshold.

However, it doesn't allow you to bring 4 batteries for your device (assuming one mounted on the device) unless (it seems) you have another device that uses the same battery and this is also allowed its own spare.

Thanks for this link, I did find my FH100 is way below at only 3900mAh, plus I also always carry them on carry on.

I think the guidance is not completely clear. My read of it is that you can take as many (carry-on) as you like of the batteries below the 8 g threshold and up to 2 of the 8 g to 25 g variety as long as the total for this category does not exceed 25 g ( one 25 g, a 10 g and a 15 g, etc.). You are asked to store all batteries according to their guidance.

Pat

It IS poorly written. My reading is that they view batteries under 8 grams as being 'safer' or 'less hazardous' than those batteries that are greater. 8 grams per 'unit' seems to be a critical threshold for safety. Therefore I read their guidelines as no more than TWO OF THE LARGER batteries that have an aggregate does not exceed 25 grams, but as many as the 'smaller' batteries as you like, in your carry on. (And they should be 'wrapped' so their terminals are covered.)

Now, how some junior clerk at the TSA who missed the meeting on guidelines will interpret it, is anybodies guess. In fact, my guess is they'll opt out for the 'easier' interpretation "No more than two batteries of any kind in your carryon, and NONE IN YOUR LUGGAGE" - That's how I think they'l mis-interpret it.

It'll be good to get reports 'from the check-in lines' in the comming weeks.

Ditto on reporting how TSA interprets their guidelines. I'm flying to back woods Africa to a do a doc soon and I was planning on bringing a mountain of batteries for my HV20s and SD702T. I don't know what my options are if I can only bring two batteries for each. I'm very worried about this so any additional clarification on this matter would be much appreciated.

OT. I've done that for Africa. Took 3 of each battery, 2 out each day and one back on the charger. Take a small power surge protector and wall adaptors. Don't shoot around airfields, the police or worse the military.

Take a box of biros (that click) and pass them out to the kids...instant co-operation.
Cheers.

Allan, for about half the trip I'll be in Dar es Salaam but then I'll be on a river so I will not be able recharge with solar or cars or what have you. This thread is giving me nightmares of TSA taking something away on the runway that will be difficult to replace in Africa and essentially kill my doc.

I'd allow extra time to get through check in & security at airports until the new requirements settle down. Security staff can vary from airport to airport in how they respond to the rules. I remember getting hand searches of film stock was a nightmare at busy international airports or regional airports not used to having film crews, even through you could ask for it to be done.

For the larger cameras Ni Cad batteries could be the order of the day again.

Matt if you are doing the Rufiji trip, then you should really invest in a solar panel recharge on the boat. The Rufiji Camp is solar powered and can recharge your camera batteries. I'd bring 2 chargers to expedite recharging.
Good luck with the shoot. Don't worry too much about TSA rules with those little batteries.

Brian, in addition to the lithium rule, any battery over 100WH has restrictions too. You have to treat them as Class 9 Hazardrous Material which means lots of customs paper work... it's not fun!

I'm not a lawyer, I'm just trying to use common sense. It seems to me that for Fed-Ex Ground to "prove" they did not lose your package, they would have to prove who had it last before the package was lost. Seems to me they MUST divulge this information to you OR accept responsibility for the loss, otherwise they may be aiding and abetting a criminal operation or behavior of another.

When one purchases an item off of eBay, ONLY the seller has the right to file an insurance claim with the shipper, not the receiver. I've heard that the shipping companies are self insured, so that takes most of the objectivity out of the process.

I just posted a comment about fed-ex ground before I read your comment. Normally I will read through an entire thread before responding. However third party shipping that allows an entity to shirk responsibility of our property seems to be a laterally important issue, no?