Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns at DVinfo.net

Marcello Mazzilli · January 2nd, 2017, 04:19 AM

Hi,
I am about to get this camera that seems a right fit for me... Low budget, multi purpose, 4K.
I own a Canon 5D Mark II and a BMPC 4K.
I find very difficult to use the BM on my day to day jobs so I end up delivering HD video with the Canon but still I need to record separate audio and sync in post. This has to end! Still I need a decent camera for my corporate jobs, something I want to mount on a rig, and use external monitors with...

SO.. again.. LS3000 seems the right choice and I think I'll end up selling both the others (and maybe reinvesting on an ATOMOS or similar for external recording).

Here my doubts

1) I've discovered the HDMI 2.0 output is NOT 10-bit. That's a pity as it could have been really a game changer. I've noticed there have been many fw updates. Technically speaking, do you think it is possible that a future fw update will enable 10-bit output? The HDMI 2.0 does it... the sensor and the buffer I guess it does (having raw data) so it's probably just a matter of CPU power.. or not?

2) I've seen there is a forecoming new firmware update (4.0 ?) that will enable 4k up to 60p. I was wondering why they where not doing it (being that they already added 70mbit only 4k) , thinking it was a sensor limitation... Now finally we will have it. Great ! Somebody out there is using 70mbit 4k and can tell me if the quality holds? (I am interested in JLOG1 specially)

3) I like the short depth of field effect I had before with my Canon and to some extent with the BM.... Will I be able to get it with a MFT ?

4) I would like to get a Metabones adapter, but also to but an all-in-one zoom MFT lens for standard day to day use. As far as I understand the 14-140 is NOT powered so I will ned to zoom by hand or go for shorter zooms (only 5x or so).. correct? Any powered decent lens to match the camera ? Does the Metabones work well with iris.. I know some people have problems with Canon lenses.

Thanks to all.

Marcello

John Nantz · January 2nd, 2017, 12:29 PM

Marcello - The LS300 is is a cam I’ve been looking at for some time but put on the back burner due to being overwhelmed in other areas. Life can be busy!

Don’t know if this will help any, but here is a 4/3rds lens chart that might be of use along with tables of lenses in various categories. The Complete Micro 4/3 Lens List updated to December, 2016 as of this post.

One of my justifications I used for looking at the LS300 was it would accept my old Nikon lenses which were a big investment and the adapter was comparatively inexpensive, a real plus. However, as a rule of thumb, the newer lenses are better than the old ones so that would have probably made them placeholders.

The short depth of field with a prime lens capability was what I was shooting for with this cam. Oh, and interchangeable lenses are re-usable. No need to invest in an integrated lens-camcorder as technology improves.

Lee Powell · January 2nd, 2017, 03:56 PM

The LS300 has many useful features, but it's not perfect in every way.

1. HDMI out is 8-bit 4:2:2 color, same as internal 50Mbps 1080p recordings. No need to record externally.

2. 70Mbps is inadequate quality for grading 4K J-Log1 footage. Don't shortchange yourself, buy a 128GB SD card.

3. The LS300 has an APS-C sensor, bigger than MFT, with much shallower DOF than a BMPC.

4. No need for a powered zoom with VSM 2.3X digital zoom. Get a sharp fast prime, you'll love it!

Paul Mailath · January 3rd, 2017, 05:31 AM

I was under the impression that it was a super 35 sensor? bigger than APS-C

William Hohauser · January 3rd, 2017, 09:15 AM

From the JVC web site:

Super 35 13.5 M pixels progressive scan CMOS

Duncan Craig · January 3rd, 2017, 09:38 AM

Super35 and APS are often used interchangeably even though there is a difference in dimensions.
There's a lot of different aspects in S35 and several different sizes of APS-C.

I don't think it really matters what you call it. It's not Full Frame and it's not MFT but somewhere between.
And in reality it doesn't make much difference as the crop factor is about the same.

John Vincent · January 3rd, 2017, 01:01 PM

My 2 cents:

Never buy a camera unless you absolutely need it. Look, every 8 bit camera on the market is about to become outclassed. Panny to officially announce the GH5 today or tomorrow.

I wanted 4K internal recording, but not quite wiling to spend more then a grand, so I got a used Sony A6300 for $750. Puts me into the 4K game without breaking the bank, knowing full well that the camera will be outclassed a year from now.

Yes, it's a giant pain in the butt to use - but seeing as I came from a VG20, I'm used to suffering. Now, I only make full length narrative films, or short local commercials, so I can deal with the negatives.

Now, if I was shooting 4-5 times a day every week, I'd buy the LS300 every time. If I was shooting nothing but greenscreen, the LS300 would not be my first choice.

Depends on what you need it for.

William Hohauser · January 3rd, 2017, 01:03 PM

You can get a slightly wider shot with MFT lenses with the LS300. Some of them will vignette so you have to be careful.

Marcello Mazzilli · January 4th, 2017, 01:43 PM

Thanks to everybody....

I own a BMPC (4k ... raw if needed) and a Canon 5D M2 (decent HD).
The problem is that for quick jobs I need a video-camera (interviews, ENG, etc) and I don't have, so I need using the 5D (I am good at focusing handeld.. that's not the problem) with external audio recorders and then syncing etc... The BMPC is a great camera but is very (very very very) dark and I end up delivering my corporate movies in HD because I need to shoot darker situations with the 5D.

So, I was aiming for a camera to "do them all". And I want to sell the others !!!

The URSA MINI with the 4,6K (1600 ISO) was a choice.. but... welll... I am afraid 1600 would still not be enough in some situations.. and C FAST cards are very expensive. It' portable, has XLR audio.. but... Is not a one for all camera.

The LS300 seems to be a better choice for me. The 4K file will be much worse than my BMPC one, but for run n shoot situations will be fine (even HD!) and I can get an external Blackmagic or Atoms monitor/recorder and use it with the rig in corporate situations.

What I don't understand... Is (or will ever be) the HDMI output of the LS300 in 10bit for 4K ?
Is it something that can be "fixed" with firmware upgrades or it will never happen?

By the way... the new GH5 has been unveiled.. and .. mygod... 400mbits, 6K at 24p or 4K at 60p,... that will be a game changer as the 5D was at it's time. Still... many features will be available only in 9 months and still misses XLR inputs etc etc...

After all, the LS300 is now very cheap (there is an offer for 2.400€ + VAT until March with free 14-40 Zuiko lens here in Italy). Even if in a year time I'll regret my choice I'm sure I can sell it for a fair amount... or no?

Jim Nogueira · January 4th, 2017, 02:38 PM

I hope that I am wrong, but I don't think the LS300 will ever be 10 bit through firmware upgrade. I think 10 biit will be reserved for a new model, LS400 or whatever. That said, I still think the LS300 is one heck of a camera for the price, and I don't think you can go wrong buying it. Nobody can predict what will happen a year or two from now. Will it be outdated, who knows? Technology moves so fast. But if you have work that you can use it for now, it will pay for itself quickly. I have only had mine since March 2016 and it has more than paid for itself.

Marcello Mazzilli · January 4th, 2017, 02:44 PM

Sure.. I work (not much lately here in Italy!).. but as I said.. I already own cameras.. is just that I feel I need a new all-in-one.. and.. yes.. I think I'll go for it.
Thanks,M

Noa Put · January 4th, 2017, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcello Mazzilli

still misses XLR inputs etc etc...

It can have xlr inputs: https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...e_adapter.html

Marcello Mazzilli · January 4th, 2017, 02:53 PM

Yeah.. I kn ew about third party XLR thingies... now thanks to you I've discovered there is a Panasonic one:
It gets more and more difficult !!! :(

Lee Powell · January 4th, 2017, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marcello Mazzilli

The LS300 seems to be a better choice for me. The 4K file will be much worse than my BMPC one, but for run n shoot situations will be fine (even HD!) and I can get an external Blackmagic or Atoms monitor/recorder and use it with the rig in corporate situations.

Bottom line for run-and-gun video shooting: You want a sharp fast auto-focus lens with image stabilization combined with electronic zoom for precise framing and ZERO focus shift. Light weight, XLR inputs, HDMI output, and wifi streaming are also very desirable. There are numerous camcorders with built-in zooms like this, but only one with a detachable lens mount:

JVC LS300 with Panasonic 42.5mm f1.7 Power-OIS prime lens

And no, it's not 10-bit, but the LS300's 4:2:2 8-bit 50Mbps 1080p internal recordings meet BBC broadcast quality standands. Since the LS300's HDMI output is likewise 4:2:2 8-bit color, external recorders don't offer a significant boost in image quality.

Marcello Mazzilli · January 5th, 2017, 02:51 AM

Thank you.
I am not sure I want a prime lens. 42 (on a Super35 should be around a 64 on full frame), zooming electronically will get to.. let's say.. double.... 120mm equivalent. Nice zoom but will miss a wide angle. I was looking into Panasonic 14-140. To use by hand... and a little darker.

January 2nd, 2017, 04:19 AM	#1
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns Hi, I am about to get this camera that seems a right fit for me... Low budget, multi purpose, 4K. I own a Canon 5D Mark II and a BMPC 4K. I find very difficult to use the BM on my day to day jobs so I end up delivering HD video with the Canon but still I need to record separate audio and sync in post. This has to end! Still I need a decent camera for my corporate jobs, something I want to mount on a rig, and use external monitors with... SO.. again.. LS3000 seems the right choice and I think I'll end up selling both the others (and maybe reinvesting on an ATOMOS or similar for external recording). Here my doubts 1) I've discovered the HDMI 2.0 output is NOT 10-bit. That's a pity as it could have been really a game changer. I've noticed there have been many fw updates. Technically speaking, do you think it is possible that a future fw update will enable 10-bit output? The HDMI 2.0 does it... the sensor and the buffer I guess it does (having raw data) so it's probably just a matter of CPU power.. or not? 2) I've seen there is a forecoming new firmware update (4.0 ?) that will enable 4k up to 60p. I was wondering why they where not doing it (being that they already added 70mbit only 4k) , thinking it was a sensor limitation... Now finally we will have it. Great ! Somebody out there is using 70mbit 4k and can tell me if the quality holds? (I am interested in JLOG1 specially) 3) I like the short depth of field effect I had before with my Canon and to some extent with the BM.... Will I be able to get it with a MFT ? 4) I would like to get a Metabones adapter, but also to but an all-in-one zoom MFT lens for standard day to day use. As far as I understand the 14-140 is NOT powered so I will ned to zoom by hand or go for shorter zooms (only 5x or so).. correct? Any powered decent lens to match the camera ? Does the Metabones work well with iris.. I know some people have problems with Canon lenses. Thanks to all. Marcello

January 2nd, 2017, 12:29 PM	#2
John Nantz Trustee Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Seattle WA Posts: 1,252	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns Marcello - The LS300 is is a cam I’ve been looking at for some time but put on the back burner due to being overwhelmed in other areas. Life can be busy! Don’t know if this will help any, but here is a 4/3rds lens chart that might be of use along with tables of lenses in various categories. The Complete Micro 4/3 Lens List updated to December, 2016 as of this post. One of my justifications I used for looking at the LS300 was it would accept my old Nikon lenses which were a big investment and the adapter was comparatively inexpensive, a real plus. However, as a rule of thumb, the newer lenses are better than the old ones so that would have probably made them placeholders. The short depth of field with a prime lens capability was what I was shooting for with this cam. Oh, and interchangeable lenses are re-usable. No need to invest in an integrated lens-camcorder as technology improves.

January 2nd, 2017, 03:56 PM	#3
Lee Powell Regular Crew Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: San Francisco, CA Posts: 133	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns The LS300 has many useful features, but it's not perfect in every way. 1. HDMI out is 8-bit 4:2:2 color, same as internal 50Mbps 1080p recordings. No need to record externally. 2. 70Mbps is inadequate quality for grading 4K J-Log1 footage. Don't shortchange yourself, buy a 128GB SD card. 3. The LS300 has an APS-C sensor, bigger than MFT, with much shallower DOF than a BMPC. 4. No need for a powered zoom with VSM 2.3X digital zoom. Get a sharp fast prime, you'll love it!

January 3rd, 2017, 05:31 AM	#4
Paul Mailath Trustee Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Central Coast - NSW, Australia Posts: 1,606	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns I was under the impression that it was a super 35 sensor? bigger than APS-C __________________ Cheers - Paul M. www.perbenyik.com

January 3rd, 2017, 09:15 AM	#5
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns From the JVC web site: Super 35 13.5 M pixels progressive scan CMOS __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

January 3rd, 2017, 09:38 AM	#6
Duncan Craig Major Player Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Leeds, UK Posts: 660 Images: 10	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns Super35 and APS are often used interchangeably even though there is a difference in dimensions. There's a lot of different aspects in S35 and several different sizes of APS-C. I don't think it really matters what you call it. It's not Full Frame and it's not MFT but somewhere between. And in reality it doesn't make much difference as the crop factor is about the same. __________________ FCPX/LS300/EX1/FS100/GoPro/Vinten/HotHead/Jib/Track/Dedos/Lightstorm/Coollights

January 3rd, 2017, 01:01 PM	#7
John Vincent Trustee Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 1,065	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns My 2 cents: Never buy a camera unless you absolutely need it. Look, every 8 bit camera on the market is about to become outclassed. Panny to officially announce the GH5 today or tomorrow. I wanted 4K internal recording, but not quite wiling to spend more then a grand, so I got a used Sony A6300 for $750. Puts me into the 4K game without breaking the bank, knowing full well that the camera will be outclassed a year from now. Yes, it's a giant pain in the butt to use - but seeing as I came from a VG20, I'm used to suffering. Now, I only make full length narrative films, or short local commercials, so I can deal with the negatives. Now, if I was shooting 4-5 times a day every week, I'd buy the LS300 every time. If I was shooting nothing but greenscreen, the LS300 would not be my first choice. Depends on what you need it for.

January 3rd, 2017, 01:03 PM	#8
William Hohauser Inner Circle Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: New York City Posts: 2,650	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns You can get a slightly wider shot with MFT lenses with the LS300. Some of them will vignette so you have to be careful. __________________ William Hohauser - New York City Producer/Edit/Camera/Animation

January 4th, 2017, 01:43 PM	#9
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns Thanks to everybody.... I own a BMPC (4k ... raw if needed) and a Canon 5D M2 (decent HD). The problem is that for quick jobs I need a video-camera (interviews, ENG, etc) and I don't have, so I need using the 5D (I am good at focusing handeld.. that's not the problem) with external audio recorders and then syncing etc... The BMPC is a great camera but is very (very very very) dark and I end up delivering my corporate movies in HD because I need to shoot darker situations with the 5D. So, I was aiming for a camera to "do them all". And I want to sell the others !!! The URSA MINI with the 4,6K (1600 ISO) was a choice.. but... welll... I am afraid 1600 would still not be enough in some situations.. and C FAST cards are very expensive. It' portable, has XLR audio.. but... Is not a one for all camera. The LS300 seems to be a better choice for me. The 4K file will be much worse than my BMPC one, but for run n shoot situations will be fine (even HD!) and I can get an external Blackmagic or Atoms monitor/recorder and use it with the rig in corporate situations. What I don't understand... Is (or will ever be) the HDMI output of the LS300 in 10bit for 4K ? Is it something that can be "fixed" with firmware upgrades or it will never happen? By the way... the new GH5 has been unveiled.. and .. mygod... 400mbits, 6K at 24p or 4K at 60p,... that will be a game changer as the 5D was at it's time. Still... many features will be available only in 9 months and still misses XLR inputs etc etc... After all, the LS300 is now very cheap (there is an offer for 2.400€ + VAT until March with free 14-40 Zuiko lens here in Italy). Even if in a year time I'll regret my choice I'm sure I can sell it for a fair amount... or no?

January 4th, 2017, 02:38 PM	#10
Jim Nogueira Major Player Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Milford, MA Posts: 487	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns I hope that I am wrong, but I don't think the LS300 will ever be 10 bit through firmware upgrade. I think 10 biit will be reserved for a new model, LS400 or whatever. That said, I still think the LS300 is one heck of a camera for the price, and I don't think you can go wrong buying it. Nobody can predict what will happen a year or two from now. Will it be outdated, who knows? Technology moves so fast. But if you have work that you can use it for now, it will pay for itself quickly. I have only had mine since March 2016 and it has more than paid for itself.

January 4th, 2017, 02:44 PM	#11
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns Sure.. I work (not much lately here in Italy!).. but as I said.. I already own cameras.. is just that I feel I need a new all-in-one.. and.. yes.. I think I'll go for it. Thanks,M

January 4th, 2017, 02:53 PM	#13
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns Yeah.. I kn ew about third party XLR thingies... now thanks to you I've discovered there is a Panasonic one: It gets more and more difficult !!! :(

January 5th, 2017, 02:51 AM	#15
Marcello Mazzilli Major Player Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: ITALIA Posts: 416	Re: Just about to get a LS3000 ... my concerns Thank you. I am not sure I want a prime lens. 42 (on a Super35 should be around a 64 on full frame), zooming electronically will get to.. let's say.. double.... 120mm equivalent. Nice zoom but will miss a wide angle. I was looking into Panasonic 14-140. To use by hand... and a little darker.