LS300 memory card issue...
 

I bought a few of the SanDisk Extreme plus UHS-1 class 10 U3 90MB/s memory cards.

They work in every format except the HD YUV 422 setting. I shot in 4K 150Mb/s and the card worked fine, but if I switch to HD YUV 422 it will record but when I load the memory card and try to open the file I get a "this file may be damaged or not recognized by Quicktime player" message.

When I double-click and check the info on the file, it says Quicktime Movie and looks like every other file I just shot, but the thumbnail doesn't' show and it won't open. I also tried a Transcend card that came with the camera, same thing, it works for 4K 150Mb but not for HD YUV 422.


Any thoughts on why the memory card won't read the HD 422 file? Or is there a setting I might have wrong? It seems odd.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

It might be a missing codec on your system or a NLE that doesn't recognize the YUV 422 files, which NLE are you using?

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I'm using FCP X. I've been learning the camera and grading and so forth and didn't realize the 422 setting was there, tried it yesterday and got this issue. Tried it again today to make sure, formatted the card, shot clips with different settings and any setting works okay except the YUV422.

I'm looking for some setting I may have wrong, checked the manual and google and haven't seen anything like it so far, where just the 422 setting doesn't play off a card.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I edit in Edius and there the yuv 422 files edit fine so fcpx doesn't seem to recognize the codec.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

The thing is it's not just FCP X, when I load the memory card reader and just try to click open a video file anything shot in YUV 422 won't even open off the memory card, a quicktime player issue too I guess.

I'm kinda bummed by this, hoping it's not some sort of bug in the camera and needs to be returned. Seems like the 422 setting is something you want to be able to use.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Have you tried to open it with VLC? My version of QT also doesn't open them but no problem to play them with VLC

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I've had that issue too and converted with Handbrake, no problem. VLC will also play it. So that makes FCP and Sony Vegas that has issues with playing back YUV 422 files......interesting

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Yes they will play in VLC, I haven't used that to edit, does that help me get them into FCP X somehow or just be able to see them?


Courtney do you always shoot in YUV 422 and transcode everything, or just use the other HD setting or 4K?


It doesn't make sense, part of the reason I got in to the JVC was the idea they're made to work smoothly with Apple FCP and Quicktime, don't like the idea of transcoding everything and/or not being able to use the 422 setting. Not sure what to make of this, it's disappointing.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Won't open or won't import? Do not try to play off the card. Can you upload a short file, 1 or 2 seconds?

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

It won't really do either. When I try to play from the card I get the "damaged or not recognized by Quicktime" message. If I try to import to FCP, it will import and you can hear audio, but it's just black for video. I dropped it to the timeline, same thing, black with audio. Not sure what to upload, the file won't open and it's just black on FCP X, but if can be more specific I'll try it for sure.


Also these cards were on sale, and like I said they worked with every other setting, but I'm going to go buy another type of card just in case, to rule it out. Although the Transcend card that came with the camera works on every setting but YUV422 as well, so I don't think that's it.


Do you folks mostly shoot on the YUV 422 setting? How important do you think it is to use?

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

The card is not the problem, your NLE is, in Edius these type of files handle just fine.Shooting 4:2:2 8bit is somewhat beneficial if you plan on colorgrading or shooting greenscreen but don't expect miracles as it's still 8bit.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I never shoot YUV, haven't had a reason to....yet. It's not the card. YUV files from other cameras work on FCPX without a problem. What Mac are you using and are your Pro video codecs up to date?

Download a demo version of EditReady to convert the file. That might help. EditReady : Transcode Any Camera Source Without The Hassle

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

No I usually shoot in DCI 4k but tried 422 for the color grading benefits. Ive experienced what you experienced and a friendly cinematographer suggested that my NLE doesn't handle 422 well. He was right and Magix Vegas pro 14 doesn't manage JVC YUV 422. I only had the audio portions and the video aspect were "greened" out, similar to your black video files.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

There is a possibility that JVC isn't using a standardized YUV codec which would account for the various programs being unable to read it. It might be sloppy programming or JVC has a good reason to alter the codec for better results. This happens frequently enough with other manufacturers as well. Then we are trapped with the developement cycles of the different NLE programmers. This is why I suggested EditReady, they are a good company and small enough to be able to update their program without adhering to a corporate schedule.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I understand the card isn't the problem, it won't let me edit the title of the thread. What's confusing now is that Noa says it's the NLE, but William says YUV422 from other camera's work on FCPX so it seems to be the camera, or a JVC issue more than FCP or quicktime.

I don't know, I'm not going to transcode everything I shoot, I guess what will happen is I just won't use the 422. It's not right to have to jump thru hoops to use it, feels a bit sketchy and it just seems pretty basic that a Quicktime player should be able to read a quicktime MOV file. Just disappointed in the camera on this one.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Most likely JVC has done something specific with the codec but since edius is able to import, edit and export that codec means grassvalley made changes to make it work, they have their slogan "edit anything" for a reason :)

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Just feels a little bogus that the camera's best HD setting produces a video file called "Quicktime movie' that isn't recognized by a Quicktime player.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

H.264 was orginally developed as an 8-bit 4:2:0 codec for delivery of consumer video content. As H.264 scope and options have expanded over the years, decoder support for 4:2:2 color depth has been haphazard and unreliable. In general, 10-bit and 4:2:2 H.264 video files should be regarded as proprietary capture footage suitable only for import into video editors and post-processing tools. Video files intended for general purpose desktop playback should be encoded in 8-bit 4:2:0 H.264 format at bitrates up to 30 Mbps. While denser formats may appear to play back properly on your own workstation, there's no guarantee they will be displayed properly on other commonly used systems.

Quicktime has a notoriously dysfunctional track record, particularly on Windows systems. Apple has abandoned Quicktime support for that platform.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I'm not sure what all that means as it relates to the LS300 offering a YUV 422 setting on the camera. I understand Windows having issues, but I thought JVC and Apple were a thing.

Does JVC include a format on their camera that has unreliable and haphazard decoder support because it's a better format if you want to take the steps to make it work?

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I believe Grassvalley made changes to Edius so that working with mov files doesn't require having quicktime installed which is a good thing.

You could blame Jvc for developing a codec that is not editable in fcp but I say it's the developers of fcp fault for not making the required changes to make it work. It's always up the the NLE manufacturer to make sure new codecs just work, when I look into Edius primary color corrector there is an option to add a lut, in the source for the colourspace there are a lot of presets for Canon, Sony, Panasonic and fujifilm log modes but there is also one specific for the ls300 which means Grassvalley has examined the ls300 codecs to make it work.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I've just tested this.

A 422 1080p25 file can't be viewed in the finder or in Quicktime, whereas VLC plays it properly.

It imports and plays perfectly in FCPX 10.3. The file shows as color profile HD (1-1-1) in the inspector.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

You really don't need the YUV codec unless you are working on something where that would definitely help. You could edit in ProRes4444 all the time also but why? Extremely high quality but a drive eater and beyond most editing needs. Years ago we could have done everything in D2 but DigiBeta was more than enough and cheaper too. In many editing situations ProResHQ is not visually discernible from regular ProRes yet there's a 30% difference in file size. Sometimes ProResLT is good enough although I never use it.

If you really want an improved recording free of h264 artifacts, investigate an external recorder like a Shogun. You get ProRes files and a great external monitor.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

It's the same bitrate as the HQ format so why not use it if you want... you should get cleaner keys if you are shooting chromakey. But as far as I'm aware when you are in 422 mode the camera doesn't record sub blacks or peak whites.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Just because the camera offers the setting, seems it would be better if grading. But I'm not positive of this stuff, but I wouldn't edit in 4444 If I shot in 422 or 420, but since 422 is a setting I was going to explore it with color grading. But I can use 420 if it's close enough to the same thing. I don't do too much keying. Is the big advantage keying? I was thinking it would offer deeper color contrast and so forth.

Also my version of FCPX isn't updated to the most recent, I'll do that and see how it changes things too.

Duncan you said on FB you hadn't shot 422 in a long time, what format do you mostly shoot now on the LS300?

Thanks for the input, much appreciated.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I am running OS10.12.3 and FCPX 10.3.2 on a six year old MacBookPro at home and my test recordings in YUV from the LS300 imported perfectly. I'm sure my office MacPro will have no problem.

Please do not discount keeping your programs up to date, it's a mistake not to. Do system backups in case an update goes awry but there's no good reason to not update (if the program hasn't changed it's GUI) unless you are in the middle of a project.

Check things out by shooting test scenes in both codecs but I believe you'll find that regular 50mbps will do you just fine in most circumstances. Even 35 isn't bad. Some people record in 4K even though the product will never be delivered that way. If grading is something you plan to do a lot of, an external recorder will be much better but be prepared to buy lots of storage drives.

Now on a side note regarding JVC LS300 YUV files on a Mac. Quicktime can't play them. VLC can. Compressor imports the files and can play them but can't convert it to anything useful. EditReady can't convert the files either.

Fixed
 

I got it, troubleshooting fail. It was just my FCP not updated.

You're absolutely right William and I do keep my programs updated, this was almost like a typo. I had been editing on older MacBook Pro that was slowing down and I recently bought a refurbished MacPro to use for an editing only. In my haste to check it out I just opened the version of FCP X on it, checked the version and read 10.1.3 as 10.3.1. I checked it twice is the bad part.

The plan was to remove his version whenever I needed an update, but I worry about removing stuff and I was excited about getting into LUT grading and forgot about doing it. Long story short I removed the version on it and added my current one and FCP X imports and plays the YUV file just fine.

Apologies for the sidetrack thread, as is often the case it's something simple, I just thought I had checked it. The good part is it makes sense and JVC and FCP are on a similar page like I thought.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I have been following this thread with interest. I shoot primarily in HD 50Mb YUV 422 24p and have not experienced any problems importing and viewing the footage in FCPX. My editing system consists of a older 27" iMac running Mac OS 10.12.3 and FCPX 10.3.2. My LS300 has the latest firmware update v3.02 which was released in Jan. 2017. I record primarily to a Ninja Blade via HDMI and internally in the camera to 128GB SanDisk Extreme Pro 95MB v30 cards. The internal recording is a backup to the Ninja Blade's 23.98 ProRes 422 recording. When I import ProRes clips from the Ninja Blade into FCPX there appears to be no transcoding involved. However, when I import .MOV clips from the SanDisk card, FCPX always transcodes the .MOV files. I have FCPX configured to "Create optimized media" when importing clips. As previously suggested, make sure you have the latest updates to your Mac OS, FCPX, and LS300. Also, in FCPX check to see if you have Create Optimized Media enabled in the import Transcode setting.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Darn I feel bad about this thread, it was a basic thing I just missed. For others that might be reading I'll restate that the only issue was using an older version of FCPX, what made the thread long was that i checked that and misread the version.

I was using a new/old system and just blanked out when I checked. I needed to switch over to my version anyway, had just been putting it off. I figured i had missed something basic when I googled and every issue on it was from 2007 lol.


To sum it up, quicktime player wont play YUV422 video files from the card, but you can preview them if needed with the VLC player, and a current version of FCP X plays and imports YUV422 video just fine.


Giddy up.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

It's worth mentioning that FCPX performs a bit slower under Sierra than it does under El Capitan. So if you don't need Siri on your desktop don't bother updating to Sierra just yet. El Capitan will happily run the latest version of FCPX so no worries there.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Actually this thread pointed out an anomaly I discovered with my 2011 MacbookPro. The JVC YUV files work great in FCPX but no other program that recognizes YUV files on my MacBookPro will recognize the JVC YUV files. My MacPro doesn't have this problem although QuickTime won't play it there either. Right now I am researching the problem with a programmer, the working theory is that MacBookPros of that era have two video cards, one card designed to help conserve energy when not using GPU intensive programs like FCPX. It's possible that the YUV file is going to the wrong GPU that doesn't have the programming to decode it while FCPX sends the file to the right GPU.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

William, the answer is likely to be that Quicktime cannot play JVC 422 because it doesn't have the right codec. Apple killed Quicktime development in 2009, and subsequently only made a couple of minor service updates.

The reason that FCPX has no problem working with JVC 422 is because FCPX is not based on Quicktime it uses AV foundation which can handle the 422 files.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

This afternoon I decided to test Quicktime with the .mov files recorded on my Ninja Blade and the .mov files recorded on the LS300 memory card. I was unable to open the LS300 memory card .mov files in Quicktime. However, I had no problem opening the Ninja Blade .mov files with Quicktime. My suspicion is JVC may be using an older .mov codec that is not compatible with the latest v10.4 Quicktime. Has anyone contacted JVC regarding this problem?

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I would agree except that JVC YUV can play in QuickTime after it's been rewrapped by EditReady on my MacPro (not the 2011 laptop). The reading of codecs is dependent on Apple's updating of Pro Video Formats which last happened in October. QuickTime Player is right now treated as a consumer level program by Apple. What EditReady does is place a standardized QuickTime wrapper around video files that don't follow what Apple has allowed. The file itself is not being recompressed. Wrappers are not the codec, h264 can be in a mov file or MP4 file. It's the same codec.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

There are many different implementations of the h264 system, and this 422 h264 must be a non standard one. I expect it's a bit like levels, 422 will be a 'high' level codec, but it must be slightly out of spec and Quicktime can't understand it, then assuming the user needs to download a different codec.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

This happens all the time, in the past Sony and Canon have both introduced h264 variants that it took awhile for the NLE programmers to catch up on. We get to enjoy the confusion.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Below is a link to an Apple database listing the companies and products that have licensed the Apple ProRes codec from Apple. JVC is not in the list.

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT200321

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

I think you are getting confused.

The JVC records in h264, your Ninja records in ProRes.
Two entirely different things.

You don't need to convert the JVC footage to ProRes (Optimised) in order to edit with it in FCPX.
(You don't even need to import it from the card as far as I know).
But if you do Optimise it your editing experience will be smoother on older computers.

.mov files are simply wrappers to various types of movie files, in the same way .avi .mkv .mxf .mp4 are wrappers for a variety of file types and video codecs.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

Duncan, Thanks for the clarification. I was under the impression a video file with the .mov extension would be the same codec, regardless of its source.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

No problem.
Wrappers and codecs can be really complicated.

Re: LS300 memory card issue...
 

That's an unwarranted speculation, considering Apple's track record of ignoring industry standards in favor of its own proprietary implementations. H.264 is replete with a long list of upgraded profiles and levels beyond 8-bit 4:2:0 color. It's far more likely that Apple simply stopped short of updating Quicktime to support the particular H.264 features that JVC uses in its 4:2:2 encoder.