GY-HD100 Power (?) Problems

Joseph A. Benoit · January 23rd, 2008, 08:18 AM

Maxene

HI if the adapter is the problem i wouldn't trust it
Its a lot more expen. to repair your Camera
you might damage your camera down the road
I use a IDX sys and had to send a brand new battery back to IDX
they sent me a new one

just a thought

JOE

Sean Adair · January 23rd, 2008, 10:29 AM

Hi Maxene,
Apply kiwi ingenuity to isolate the problem, and you seem to be well on the way. Covering events as you describe, I'd be doing some very thorough tests to confirm the situation, but with the power options you described, it does seem to be the AB adaptor. Confirm this by repeating some direct tests.
Anton Bauer is a very reputable company, and actually there will be quite a few people using this rig online here (I'd guess 30 or more).
One thing to look for would be the electrical contacts where it mounts to the camera. Check if there is any visible dirt or corrosion (a drop of lion ale got in there?). Clean them with a contact cleaner anyway (that is on both camera and mount). The 100 series adaptor isn't as robust as the 200 series connection, as it clips on to a consumer grade battery mount. But I've used 2 of these cameras (100 series) with the same AB rig for 100's of hours without problems. Check the battery mount contacts too - although that is less likely. A voltage meter comparison of battery direct and mount would help in doing a thorough process of elimination.
Poor or irregular power will cause some strange symptoms. However, Marc is incorrect about the maximum. The cameras run directly on 12 volts (read your manual's specs), but accept 14.5 volts from batteries so they have an extended running time as the battery depletes. There is a menu setting in the camera to adjust remaining time to suit the AB rig. It can display voltage, % or time. This might tell you something useful too (a charged battery should have full readings here). Battery supplied power won't give a spike, so I wouldn't be worried about that. I'd be more careful with a mains powered adapter that was giving strange results, but I think it's highly unlikely you could damage the camera from these batteries. I suspect it's low and/or irregular voltage causing the problem.
The titan charger will just pass through battery power when it's disconnected from mains. It's a more secure AC connection than the mini jack, but I can't see it helping with your symptoms. How did you charge you batteries before? They will drain if left attached to the camera, even with power off BTW.
Surely there is a techie who can look the rig over. If I were you, I'd let someone with electronics experience tinker with the adapter, but stop at opening up the camera - just my 2¢.
But, If you can state the results of testing a bit more clearly, I'll have another go - and I'm sure others will chip in too. It is possible that the camera's power regulation is the problem too, but I think that's unlikely at this stage. Electronics of all sorts can fail, or even limp along giving irregular performance, even under high manufacturing standards.

PS lived 8 years in ChCh back in the day, still a NZ citizen!

Marc Colemont · January 23rd, 2008, 12:02 PM

Sean, maybe I did not explained it well enough.
On the IDX/AB adapters input 12V input is no problem.
On the HD100 with the small original 7.2V batteries I was talking with the maximum voltage rating at the pins on that the original battery circuit.
The small connector on the side with 7.2V may not exceed the 7.9V either.
The HD2xx series have a 4-pole XLR 12V input instead.

Edit:
I found it back now. On Page 6 of the HD100 manual:

Precautions for Proper Use
• Supply voltage
Make sure that the power is between 6.5 V and 7.9 V DC. If
the power voltage is too low, abnormal color and increased
noise may occur. Do not exceed 7.9 V DC in any case, or
the unit could be damaged.

Maxene Kuek · January 23rd, 2008, 01:56 PM

Hi Sean,

Giddday! We are now testing the voltage from the batteries...

Stock batteries - between 8.18 to 8.25 volts
AB Goldmount adapter - 7.40 v exact independent of what battery is installed...

We notice that if the Adapter is left on the camera for a while, then we have the boot up problem... Stock/standard JVC batteries do not have this problem

Maxene Kuek · January 23rd, 2008, 03:10 PM

Here's what we have done since...

1. Cleaned the contacts... all seem fine... If the camera can power up but hang, do you think that this could be a loose contact - we don't think so... because WITHOUT touching the battery pack, if we cycle through the power-down, we can re-boot again, and it is then okay... (BUT can we trust it to then record???)
2. When the camera hangs, we power it down, remove the AB mount with the battery still attached... measure the voltage... it reads 7.40V

Rang GENCON (JVC New Zealand and AB Agent)... they say it may be a firmware issue? BUT we had the firmware updated in April last year (we hadthe same problems before the update too - come to think of it!). Then the Techie said that it could be the contacts... but again, we do not touch the battery and AB mount at all when we cycle through the tests... so I doubt it... What actually is happenning that is critical when the camera is turned on? Is there a certain level of current draw that is neccessary etc....?

I can get another AB mount (used) from B&H for less then what I expect to pay the techies to look at the set-up - do you think we should try that?

Sean Adair · January 24th, 2008, 10:05 AM

Marc - I stand corrected. I own a 200, and DP with a pair of 100's frequently, but I wasn't as familiar with their specs.
So Maxene's readings for the adapter are exactly what we'd expect for the camera specs. The camera batteries, although they read high on the meter, will give a lower voltage with resistance when "on load".
Can Gencon confirm that the voltage output as you measure it is to spec? (It would seem to be). I guess there could be a loose or poor contact in the adapter- possibly an internal connection, that is causing the disruption. Or some electronic component, a resistor or whatever is failing under load or when it gets warm.
If the camera never gives these symptoms with normal batteries or under AC power, I'd be pretty confident in declaring the adapter faulty. Will the distributor or dealer let you test an in-stock adapter yourself if you bring your camera in? Anyone else you know there have the same rig?
I can't really analyze the financials for you. Funny thing is, B&H is just a short bicycle ride from my place. They do try things out when they get them, but I wouldn't say they are thoroughly tested for symptoms like this.
I feel your pain. Losing wedding footage is not good for your financials either...

Finally there is the speculation you had that the 3rd party batterries may have damaged the adapter. Have you checked the direct battery voltage? Perhaps if they produce a voltage higher than spec they could have damaged the adapter (and damage a 2nd one...). If the fully charged units are not so different from the AB - or you can get the voltage input specs for the adapter, you'll feel more confident about that possibility.
Good luck

Maxene Kuek · January 24th, 2008, 12:11 PM

Thanks for your input Sean.... and the rest... Much appreciated....

We firstly suspected te 3rd party batteries.. but having done all the tests (the 3rd party batteries output the correct voltage - and we have the same AB rig for our Canon XL1s), we pretty much have isolated the problem (we feel) to the adpter - only happens when warm... funnily the HyTron makes the adapter reach this point much faster... We opened the adapter for a look - not much in there to go loose... more likely a failed resistor/capaictor or other component... Any way we decided to go for a NEW AB Adapter (with our credit card, we get 2 years warranty). It is on the way and we will know in a couple of days!

On a personal note, Sean are you a Kiwi or just lived here and got your Citizenship? I like your rigs... How does the 50p look like? Hear that some are not happy with it. Does the BR-HD50 handle 50p? Thanks!

Sean Adair · January 24th, 2008, 12:44 PM

Hey Maxene,
My Dad is a 4th generation kiwi. I was born in the US and my Mom is american. I went there with family at age 15, and when my parent sdecided to return to the states, I took advantage of the education system and stayed for college at CAnterbury. Spent a few years there afterwards, but unfortunately haven't made it back in a LOOOng time.

The camera and deck work in 24p,25p,30p,50p,60p. I haven't actually had call for 25/50 yet, but I'm real happy to have 60p available. I've used it both straight, and also for overcrank effect with 24p playback.

I've found the 60p to be quite clean, and despite it being more compressed, I'm not seeing more compression artifacts with it. Do you have links to the negative impressions? I'm curious if there is some situation I can reproduce and verify for my own usage.

Maxene Kuek · January 24th, 2008, 05:19 PM

re: 50p I can't quite remember the actual thread, but someone posted in this site that they thought 50p was not really usable for them... I though that that was quite odd.. I guess if you do a search for 50p, it might come up... I'll have a look too, and if I find it, I'll let you know...

John Mitchell · January 24th, 2008, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maxene Kuek

Thanks for your input Sean.... and the rest... Much appreciated....

We firstly suspected te 3rd party batteries.. but having done all the tests (the 3rd party batteries output the correct voltage - and we have the same AB rig for our Canon XL1s), we pretty much have isolated the problem (we feel) to the adpter - only happens when warm... funnily the HyTron makes the adapter reach this point much faster... We opened the adapter for a look - not much in there to go loose... more likely a failed resistor/capaictor or other component... Any way we decided to go for a NEW AB Adapter (with our credit card, we get 2 years warranty). It is on the way and we will know in a couple of days!

Maxene I can confirm that we have been using the AB adaptor with GMP batts for some time quite successfully. As an actual field unit in pretty much daily use for 15 months, with zero problems.

Before you bought a new one I reckon you should have requested a replacement from Gencom (I found them to be very helpful, even coming around to my office to check out a problem with my original adaptor) - it sounds like there's been problems with your particular unit from the beginning and indeed some of the original units shipped were replaced FOC due to design issues (mine included)

Maxene Kuek · January 24th, 2008, 09:21 PM

Hi John,

Unfortunately the Adapter was boght from Globalmediapro (NEVER again!!!) and they have undercut the market so badly that NO ONE wants anything to do with them here... including Gencon... The guys at Gencon were indeed very helpful... No so Globalmediapro... if you have ANY issues with stuff you buy from G.M. Pro, they AUTOMATICALLY assume that it iwas YOUR fault and you have to PROVE that it was indeed a manufacturer's fault (with a letter from an authorised dealer - of course when Gencon wants nothing to do with G.M. Pro - how do you do that????!!!). We got a BR-HD50 from GMPro and got the scare of our lives when the tape would not feed after a week of use... They DID NOT WANT to assume ANY responsibility - it was VERY stressful!! Be WARNED.... they are horrible to deal with if anything goes wrong... We were stuck and were ready to go to small claims court to get re-dress... Finally I decided to open the deck and found out that one of the "springs/teeth" that hold the tape was slightly bent out of shape (we never forced anything!), it was caught in the door (tolerances are very fine). We adjusted it ourselves, and presto - all fixed... Moral of the story, we would NEVER buy anything that is more expensive and delicate... Tripods and btteries are fine, anything else be VERY afraid!!

John Mitchell · January 28th, 2008, 04:40 PM

Hi Maxene - re GMP - they are an online discounter and not a site sponsor so I'm limited in what I can say. Obviously I bought my adapter from Gencom the distributors for Aust and NZ. I mentioned that I have bought batteries and a charger from GMP to simply say that solution in combination with the AB mount was working for us.

I would only buy from GMP if the savings equalled or surpassed the cost of warranting the goods myself. Generally if I was looking for an online deal reputable site sponsors like B&H would be my first stop.

Maxene Kuek · January 28th, 2008, 09:17 PM

Hi All, and update...

Our new AB adapter has arrived and it seems to be working properly now, all EXCEPT for one time only where it would not boot... The manual says when that happens (no picture/image in viewfinder) the camera is stuck in VTR mode...?

I will do some further testing... as I am still nervous...

Maxene Kuek · January 29th, 2008, 04:02 PM

This is getting very frustrating...

After leaving the HyTron battery on the adapter (and camera) overnight, we are back to square one... The old probems have returned... The camera will hang, but will power down. After that, the camera will boot up fine...

The question is this... Can we trust the camera... what do you think?

January 23rd, 2008, 10:29 AM	#17
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	Hi Maxene, Apply kiwi ingenuity to isolate the problem, and you seem to be well on the way. Covering events as you describe, I'd be doing some very thorough tests to confirm the situation, but with the power options you described, it does seem to be the AB adaptor. Confirm this by repeating some direct tests. Anton Bauer is a very reputable company, and actually there will be quite a few people using this rig online here (I'd guess 30 or more). One thing to look for would be the electrical contacts where it mounts to the camera. Check if there is any visible dirt or corrosion (a drop of lion ale got in there?). Clean them with a contact cleaner anyway (that is on both camera and mount). The 100 series adaptor isn't as robust as the 200 series connection, as it clips on to a consumer grade battery mount. But I've used 2 of these cameras (100 series) with the same AB rig for 100's of hours without problems. Check the battery mount contacts too - although that is less likely. A voltage meter comparison of battery direct and mount would help in doing a thorough process of elimination. Poor or irregular power will cause some strange symptoms. However, Marc is incorrect about the maximum. The cameras run directly on 12 volts (read your manual's specs), but accept 14.5 volts from batteries so they have an extended running time as the battery depletes. There is a menu setting in the camera to adjust remaining time to suit the AB rig. It can display voltage, % or time. This might tell you something useful too (a charged battery should have full readings here). Battery supplied power won't give a spike, so I wouldn't be worried about that. I'd be more careful with a mains powered adapter that was giving strange results, but I think it's highly unlikely you could damage the camera from these batteries. I suspect it's low and/or irregular voltage causing the problem. The titan charger will just pass through battery power when it's disconnected from mains. It's a more secure AC connection than the mini jack, but I can't see it helping with your symptoms. How did you charge you batteries before? They will drain if left attached to the camera, even with power off BTW. Surely there is a techie who can look the rig over. If I were you, I'd let someone with electronics experience tinker with the adapter, but stop at opening up the camera - just my 2¢. But, If you can state the results of testing a bit more clearly, I'll have another go - and I'm sure others will chip in too. It is possible that the camera's power regulation is the problem too, but I think that's unlikely at this stage. Electronics of all sorts can fail, or even limp along giving irregular performance, even under high manufacturing standards. PS lived 8 years in ChCh back in the day, still a NZ citizen! __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

January 23rd, 2008, 12:02 PM	#18
Marc Colemont Major Player Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 695	Sean, maybe I did not explained it well enough. On the IDX/AB adapters input 12V input is no problem. On the HD100 with the small original 7.2V batteries I was talking with the maximum voltage rating at the pins on that the original battery circuit. The small connector on the side with 7.2V may not exceed the 7.9V either. The HD2xx series have a 4-pole XLR 12V input instead. Edit: I found it back now. On Page 6 of the HD100 manual: Precautions for Proper Use • Supply voltage Make sure that the power is between 6.5 V and 7.9 V DC. If the power voltage is too low, abnormal color and increased noise may occur. Do not exceed 7.9 V DC in any case, or the unit could be damaged. __________________ Marc Colemont - Belgium - http://www.mc-productions.be JVC GY-HM850's, HM890, HM600

January 24th, 2008, 10:05 AM	#21
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	Marc - I stand corrected. I own a 200, and DP with a pair of 100's frequently, but I wasn't as familiar with their specs. So Maxene's readings for the adapter are exactly what we'd expect for the camera specs. The camera batteries, although they read high on the meter, will give a lower voltage with resistance when "on load". Can Gencon confirm that the voltage output as you measure it is to spec? (It would seem to be). I guess there could be a loose or poor contact in the adapter- possibly an internal connection, that is causing the disruption. Or some electronic component, a resistor or whatever is failing under load or when it gets warm. If the camera never gives these symptoms with normal batteries or under AC power, I'd be pretty confident in declaring the adapter faulty. Will the distributor or dealer let you test an in-stock adapter yourself if you bring your camera in? Anyone else you know there have the same rig? I can't really analyze the financials for you. Funny thing is, B&H is just a short bicycle ride from my place. They do try things out when they get them, but I wouldn't say they are thoroughly tested for symptoms like this. I feel your pain. Losing wedding footage is not good for your financials either... Finally there is the speculation you had that the 3rd party batterries may have damaged the adapter. Have you checked the direct battery voltage? Perhaps if they produce a voltage higher than spec they could have damaged the adapter (and damage a 2nd one...). If the fully charged units are not so different from the AB - or you can get the voltage input specs for the adapter, you'll feel more confident about that possibility. Good luck __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

January 24th, 2008, 12:44 PM	#23
Sean Adair Major Player Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 463	Hey Maxene, My Dad is a 4th generation kiwi. I was born in the US and my Mom is american. I went there with family at age 15, and when my parent sdecided to return to the states, I took advantage of the education system and stayed for college at CAnterbury. Spent a few years there afterwards, but unfortunately haven't made it back in a LOOOng time. The camera and deck work in 24p,25p,30p,50p,60p. I haven't actually had call for 25/50 yet, but I'm real happy to have 60p available. I've used it both straight, and also for overcrank effect with 24p playback. I've found the 60p to be quite clean, and despite it being more compressed, I'm not seeing more compression artifacts with it. Do you have links to the negative impressions? I'm curious if there is some situation I can reproduce and verify for my own usage. __________________ Sean Adair - NYC - www.adairproductions.com JVC GY-HM-700 with 17x5 lens, MacPro 3.2ghz 8-core, 18gb. (JVC HD200 4 sale soon)

January 23rd, 2008, 08:18 AM	#16
Joseph A. Benoit Major Player Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Coconut Creek FL Posts: 291	Maxene HI if the adapter is the problem i wouldn't trust it Its a lot more expen. to repair your Camera you might damage your camera down the road I use a IDX sys and had to send a brand new battery back to IDX they sent me a new one just a thought JOE

January 23rd, 2008, 01:56 PM	#19
Maxene Kuek Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 30	Hi Sean, Giddday! We are now testing the voltage from the batteries... Stock batteries - between 8.18 to 8.25 volts AB Goldmount adapter - 7.40 v exact independent of what battery is installed... We notice that if the Adapter is left on the camera for a while, then we have the boot up problem... Stock/standard JVC batteries do not have this problem

January 23rd, 2008, 03:10 PM	#20
Maxene Kuek Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 30	Here's what we have done since... 1. Cleaned the contacts... all seem fine... If the camera can power up but hang, do you think that this could be a loose contact - we don't think so... because WITHOUT touching the battery pack, if we cycle through the power-down, we can re-boot again, and it is then okay... (BUT can we trust it to then record???) 2. When the camera hangs, we power it down, remove the AB mount with the battery still attached... measure the voltage... it reads 7.40V Rang GENCON (JVC New Zealand and AB Agent)... they say it may be a firmware issue? BUT we had the firmware updated in April last year (we hadthe same problems before the update too - come to think of it!). Then the Techie said that it could be the contacts... but again, we do not touch the battery and AB mount at all when we cycle through the tests... so I doubt it... What actually is happenning that is critical when the camera is turned on? Is there a certain level of current draw that is neccessary etc....? I can get another AB mount (used) from B&H for less then what I expect to pay the techies to look at the set-up - do you think we should try that?

January 24th, 2008, 12:11 PM	#22
Maxene Kuek Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 30	Thanks for your input Sean.... and the rest... Much appreciated.... We firstly suspected te 3rd party batteries.. but having done all the tests (the 3rd party batteries output the correct voltage - and we have the same AB rig for our Canon XL1s), we pretty much have isolated the problem (we feel) to the adpter - only happens when warm... funnily the HyTron makes the adapter reach this point much faster... We opened the adapter for a look - not much in there to go loose... more likely a failed resistor/capaictor or other component... Any way we decided to go for a NEW AB Adapter (with our credit card, we get 2 years warranty). It is on the way and we will know in a couple of days! On a personal note, Sean are you a Kiwi or just lived here and got your Citizenship? I like your rigs... How does the 50p look like? Hear that some are not happy with it. Does the BR-HD50 handle 50p? Thanks!

January 24th, 2008, 05:19 PM	#24
Maxene Kuek Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 30	re: 50p I can't quite remember the actual thread, but someone posted in this site that they thought 50p was not really usable for them... I though that that was quite odd.. I guess if you do a search for 50p, it might come up... I'll have a look too, and if I find it, I'll let you know...

January 24th, 2008, 09:21 PM	#26
Maxene Kuek Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 30	Hi John, Unfortunately the Adapter was boght from Globalmediapro (NEVER again!!!) and they have undercut the market so badly that NO ONE wants anything to do with them here... including Gencon... The guys at Gencon were indeed very helpful... No so Globalmediapro... if you have ANY issues with stuff you buy from G.M. Pro, they AUTOMATICALLY assume that it iwas YOUR fault and you have to PROVE that it was indeed a manufacturer's fault (with a letter from an authorised dealer - of course when Gencon wants nothing to do with G.M. Pro - how do you do that????!!!). We got a BR-HD50 from GMPro and got the scare of our lives when the tape would not feed after a week of use... They DID NOT WANT to assume ANY responsibility - it was VERY stressful!! Be WARNED.... they are horrible to deal with if anything goes wrong... We were stuck and were ready to go to small claims court to get re-dress... Finally I decided to open the deck and found out that one of the "springs/teeth" that hold the tape was slightly bent out of shape (we never forced anything!), it was caught in the door (tolerances are very fine). We adjusted it ourselves, and presto - all fixed... Moral of the story, we would NEVER buy anything that is more expensive and delicate... Tripods and btteries are fine, anything else be VERY afraid!!

January 28th, 2008, 04:40 PM	#27
John Mitchell Contributor Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 873	Hi Maxene - re GMP - they are an online discounter and not a site sponsor so I'm limited in what I can say. Obviously I bought my adapter from Gencom the distributors for Aust and NZ. I mentioned that I have bought batteries and a charger from GMP to simply say that solution in combination with the AB mount was working for us. I would only buy from GMP if the savings equalled or surpassed the cost of warranting the goods myself. Generally if I was looking for an online deal reputable site sponsors like B&H would be my first stop.

January 28th, 2008, 09:17 PM	#28
Maxene Kuek Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 30	Hi All, and update... Our new AB adapter has arrived and it seems to be working properly now, all EXCEPT for one time only where it would not boot... The manual says when that happens (no picture/image in viewfinder) the camera is stuck in VTR mode...? I will do some further testing... as I am still nervous...

January 29th, 2008, 04:02 PM	#29
Maxene Kuek Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 30	This is getting very frustrating... After leaving the HyTron battery on the adapter (and camera) overnight, we are back to square one... The old probems have returned... The camera will hang, but will power down. After that, the camera will boot up fine... The question is this... Can we trust the camera... what do you think?