Call to JVC - split screen

Tim Dashwood · September 14th, 2005, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

I agree the 0db standard is low

Guys the standard isn't 0dB. I don't know where this came from.

I was told directly by the General Manager of Professional Sales at JVC Canada that if during the QC process the engineers detect the split screen at +9db, the unit gets shipped back to Japan.

I just want to set the record straight - this is with JVC Canada QC standards... I don't remember Ken mentioning what tolerance the US QC process adheres to.

Tim

Jiri Bakala · September 14th, 2005, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

If by without lights you really mean in the dark with no lights, then I'm sorry, but you really need night vision and this time I'm not joking.

Hey, c'mon Michael, we know what we are talking about. Sorry if I sounded a bit harsh shooting down your comment about night vision but I wanted to get my point about the need to decent gain functionality across.
:-)

Michael Maier · September 14th, 2005, 06:51 PM

Hey, no hurt feelings.

Mel Namnama · September 14th, 2005, 07:08 PM

Hello Everyone, I'm beginning to wonder if I was lucky or unlucky in getting
my hands on the first batch of HD100's. I also have the split screen problem at 0 gain. I emailed JVC's Pro division & hope to get a response. Has anyone already replaced their units successfully?

Tim Dashwood · September 14th, 2005, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mel Namnama

Has anyone already replaced their units successfully?

Yeah, a few of us have. Have your dealer arrange the swap.

Tim

Robert Castiglione · September 14th, 2005, 07:29 PM

Dear Mel,

Please let us know how the pro division responds.

I am certainly looking to swap in the near future unless a solution emerges.

Rob

Dave Beaty · September 14th, 2005, 08:23 PM

One of our producers took out our first HD100U over the weekend to shoot some magic hour stuff along the coast. At the time he was unaware of the split screen issue and only noticed the issue upon reviewing tape back at our studio.

The shot that showed the serious split was a sunset shot of the beach, pier and water. The sun was about 20 degrees off the horizon. Long lens shot of pier and sun. I first noticed some serious vertical smear. From the top of the frame to the bottom about the same diameter as the sun, but the scene starts out with no split. Then it appears. The right 1/2 look almost like it has a different gamma. Much lighter blacks. I'll post a still when I get it. This was 0db, 720 24p, ND and stopped down with the stock lens. Not sure about shutter setting. We're having trouble digitizing the 24p stuff with FCP on our Macs.

Just got our 2nd unit today. Still haven't seen it myself inside. It seems like it appears under specific conditions of lighting and or camera warm up. I could see how QA could miss it in a quick test.

Dave
Ft. Myers, FL

Nate Weaver · September 14th, 2005, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Beaty

We're having trouble digitizing the 24p stuff with FCP on our Macs.

That's because FCP isn't compatible with HDV 24P mode yet. Update is coming.

Marty Baggen · September 14th, 2005, 11:19 PM

This has probably been asked and answered elsewhere, but does the split-screen appear in SD?

Steve Roark · September 15th, 2005, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Maier

Well, I guess Ken is really right. Everybody reads what he wants to read.

I guess the guy must be some kind of psychic genius. Who else could have predicted a backlash while making a post which tells users that the defect is a limitation based on how cheap the camera is? What Ken did was a pre-emptive strike, a common practice used to deflect critism that's sure to follow. I've covered enough politicians to recognize spin when I read it:

"I know some nay-sayers will criticise my plan to use the education budget to buy a really big yacht..."

I want the HD100 to work as much as anyone here. But this post, official or not, is the only comment I've heard coming from JVC, and it felt disingenuous to me. It had more disclaimers than substance. If you feel that I've twisted Ken's words, please point out my mistakes. Maybe I could have left out the White House joke, but reading the "not a defect" line reminded me so much of the position Canon took with the XL1 banding issue. Everyone remember when Canon said banding on the XL1 was a 'limitation' of the DV format? It took months of complaining on the the Internet, but a solution was found and the XL1 is a success story. Maybe the HD100 will be home run in the long run, but if I bought a $500 camcorder that had a split screen, I'd send it back. So, I don't take kindly to hearing a rep. saying that this effect is acceptable in a professional camcorder because it only costs $6000.

If we all had the same feelings on the subject, there would be no need for a forum. I personally don't think its ethical to sell a product before its complete, unless you tell customers upfront that the product will have limitations until a fix is found. If you and Nate disagree with my first post, please tell everyone what part was wrong. I don't think of debates as minefields.

Steve

Robert Castiglione · September 15th, 2005, 02:50 AM

Yes, the same problem of split screen in SD as well.

Also, although I very much appreciated having contact from Ken (particularly the bit about the fact that a solution is probably emerging) and the general intent of his email , I am bound to confess that it was not helpful to be told that an obvious and irritating defect apparently in the design of the camera is something to be accepted as a "limitation" in its performance. That wont stand up to scrutiny.

Cant shoot in low light with any confidence, cant shoot magic hour shots? Would you start a shoot with the camera in its current condition?

I await the fix for this problem as soon as possible.

Rob

Mikael Widerberg · September 15th, 2005, 09:49 AM

JVC have to fixe this, no doubt about that.

I would not be worried at all, you can just bring it in to the rep I they will fix it for you.

For me the case is a little different. I bought my cam from Globalmediapro (they are wery good). Living in Sweden I have to pay for the transport to the other side of the world (270 USD).

I am also in the midle of a project, and I have to kepit untill I am done. Lyckely most of the shots are outdoor in good light.

I have also E-mailed JVC-pro, but didnt get any reply.

I am hoping a firmwher can fix this splitscreen effect

Marty Baggen · September 15th, 2005, 10:37 AM

Mikael.... you are a brave man to undertake a project with new gear on the fly.

Let us know how it turns out.

Dave Beaty · September 15th, 2005, 12:00 PM

Here is a link to the shots from the beach. Stills. The first show the split and as the sun set it went away.

http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.co...test%206-7.jpg

http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.co...test%207-1.jpg

Dave Beaty

Michael Maier · September 15th, 2005, 12:21 PM

Was it taken at 0db? I'm sure it was, but I just wanted to make sure.

September 14th, 2005, 08:23 PM	#52
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	Some interesting observations One of our producers took out our first HD100U over the weekend to shoot some magic hour stuff along the coast. At the time he was unaware of the split screen issue and only noticed the issue upon reviewing tape back at our studio. The shot that showed the serious split was a sunset shot of the beach, pier and water. The sun was about 20 degrees off the horizon. Long lens shot of pier and sun. I first noticed some serious vertical smear. From the top of the frame to the bottom about the same diameter as the sun, but the scene starts out with no split. Then it appears. The right 1/2 look almost like it has a different gamma. Much lighter blacks. I'll post a still when I get it. This was 0db, 720 24p, ND and stopped down with the stock lens. Not sure about shutter setting. We're having trouble digitizing the 24p stuff with FCP on our Macs. Just got our 2nd unit today. Still haven't seen it myself inside. It seems like it appears under specific conditions of lighting and or camera warm up. I could see how QA could miss it in a quick test. Dave Ft. Myers, FL

September 15th, 2005, 12:00 PM	#59
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	Split Images I mentioned Here is a link to the shots from the beach. Stills. The first show the split and as the sun set it went away. http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.co...test%206-7.jpg http://www.dreamtimeentertainment.co...test%207-1.jpg Dave Beaty

September 14th, 2005, 06:51 PM	#48
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Hey, no hurt feelings.

September 14th, 2005, 07:08 PM	#49
Mel Namnama Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 25	Hello Everyone, I'm beginning to wonder if I was lucky or unlucky in getting my hands on the first batch of HD100's. I also have the split screen problem at 0 gain. I emailed JVC's Pro division & hope to get a response. Has anyone already replaced their units successfully?

September 14th, 2005, 07:29 PM	#51
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Dear Mel, Please let us know how the pro division responds. I am certainly looking to swap in the near future unless a solution emerges. Rob

September 14th, 2005, 11:19 PM	#54
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	This has probably been asked and answered elsewhere, but does the split-screen appear in SD?

September 15th, 2005, 02:50 AM	#56
Robert Castiglione Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Fremantle, Western Australia Posts: 253	Yes, the same problem of split screen in SD as well. Also, although I very much appreciated having contact from Ken (particularly the bit about the fact that a solution is probably emerging) and the general intent of his email , I am bound to confess that it was not helpful to be told that an obvious and irritating defect apparently in the design of the camera is something to be accepted as a "limitation" in its performance. That wont stand up to scrutiny. Cant shoot in low light with any confidence, cant shoot magic hour shots? Would you start a shoot with the camera in its current condition? I await the fix for this problem as soon as possible. Rob

September 15th, 2005, 09:49 AM	#57
Mikael Widerberg Regular Crew Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Stockholm Sweden Posts: 73	JVC have to fixe this, no doubt about that. I would not be worried at all, you can just bring it in to the rep I they will fix it for you. For me the case is a little different. I bought my cam from Globalmediapro (they are wery good). Living in Sweden I have to pay for the transport to the other side of the world (270 USD). I am also in the midle of a project, and I have to kepit untill I am done. Lyckely most of the shots are outdoor in good light. I have also E-mailed JVC-pro, but didnt get any reply. I am hoping a firmwher can fix this splitscreen effect

September 15th, 2005, 10:37 AM	#58
Marty Baggen Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: monroe, or Posts: 572	Mikael.... you are a brave man to undertake a project with new gear on the fly. Let us know how it turns out.

September 15th, 2005, 12:21 PM	#60
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Was it taken at 0db? I'm sure it was, but I just wanted to make sure.