Call to JVC - split screen

Jiri Bakala · September 15th, 2005, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave Beaty

Here is a link to the shots from the beach. Stills. The first show the split and as the sun set it went away.

Holly s%@t! That's even worse than I though...

Dave Beaty · September 15th, 2005, 09:14 PM

Our producer Matt, reported that his shot on the beach was with stock settings. It was his first shots with the camera. He told me there was no gain. Looks kind of grainy.

It's odd that the split seemed to appear and then just as quickly disappears as the scene evolved. Again, a tough condition for the electronics to address with the full sun and dark forground. Yet the clear image looks good.

Speculating here, but it seems like the right half is in a seperate memory buffer that is being processed ahead or behind the left half. The camera is trying to apply seperate processing to each half. A challenge almost like trying to match two cameras perfectly.

Dave B

here are all the still image captures....

www.dreamtimeentertainment.com/hdv/

Guy Barwood · September 15th, 2005, 10:26 PM

Looks like the black stretch is turned on for the right half of the screen, and off for the left.

Tim Dashwood · September 16th, 2005, 03:41 PM

Dave,

I imported your shot into FCP5 on V1. I then copy and pasted it into V2 and LEFT CROPPED it 50% with an edge feather of 1.
I then added the 3-way colour corrector to the cropped right-side (V2) and quickly created a simple adjustment to make the two sides match.

Here's your original:

http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/..._6-7before.jpg

Here's the corrected version:

http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...t_6-7after.jpg

And here's the 3-way CC settings:

http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...screen-fix.jpg

See how this works on the moving footage.

Tim

Dave Beaty · September 17th, 2005, 07:27 AM

Tim,

Well, that fix is pretty close. At least it's not a total loss.

We'll be sending in our camera to our dealer for, hopefully, a swap. It still bothers me the issue was so hard to produce. I tried to duplicate the split yesterday in the studio with no luck. I had the camera on DC for several hours and tried various lighting conditions. I never saw the severe splitting like in the beach. But it's there somewhere. Also, any comments on the vertical smear. I know it's a $5500 cam, but should it be so bad?

Dave Beaty

Heath McKnight · September 17th, 2005, 06:32 PM

I just wanted to re-iterate a thanks to Ken Freed from JVC--he's a VERY nice guy and I've met him personally a couple of times. He doesn't B.S. anyone and he knows his stuff. The fact that he isn't here to sell but rather help is a testament to his commitment with JVC.

Thanks Ken! Next time we're at a camera show, I'll buy you a drink!

Heath McKnight

Leonard Richardson · September 18th, 2005, 10:59 AM

Hi
I havn't been here in awhile. I bought a HD10U from JVC and i'm going to upgrade to a HD100 in the next year. I read alot at times on this thread and I was looking at the Pic's of the split screen shots. Could the problem be in the lens instead of the HD100. Has anyone tryed it on a different lens

Would like to thank everone for there info. It makes for some good reading

LHR

Werner Wesp · September 18th, 2005, 11:14 AM

I really don't think it's in the lens. Rumors say it's because 2 different processors handle the left and right side of the image.

Barry Green · September 18th, 2005, 12:35 PM

The problem is absolutely not in the lens; there was one shot we did with the mini35 where the splitscreen effect was visible.

Charles Papert · September 18th, 2005, 12:48 PM

The split screen phenomenon is indeed a function of two separate processing functions; this is confirmed by JVC.

Michael Maier · September 18th, 2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Barry Green

The problem is absolutely not in the lens; there was one shot we did with the mini35 where the splitscreen effect was visible.

Was it a shot which didn't make to the final samples?
By the way, there was no split screen in that low light night shot, where the camera dollies in on a passing by woman. Was it corrected in post? Since it was a low light shot, and the split is most visable under those conditions, I wonder if it was fixed.

Charles Papert · September 18th, 2005, 01:21 PM

Michael:

It was indeed a shot that I didn't post. The split screen phenomenon has been documented elsewhere so I didn't feel it necessary to include the shot in a review that was oriented specifically to the use of the Mini35 and the HD100. The clips as seen in the article were direct from the camera with no correction or processing.

My best guess of why the one shot exhibited the split screen phenomenon so visibly is that it had lower contrast and more overall black in the frame, as opposed to the posted shot which had a fair amount of highlights present to help the contrast.

Stephen L. Noe · September 18th, 2005, 01:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charles Papert

My best guess of why the one shot exhibited the split screen phenomenon so visibly is that it had lower contrast and more overall black in the frame, as opposed to the posted shot which had a fair amount of highlights present to help the contrast.

How long had the camera been on (up and running) before you saw the split screen? Late in the day? At first turn on? Was the camera cold? hot? anything environmentally that you could point your finger to?

Shawn Alyasiri · September 19th, 2005, 07:31 AM

I shot some footage in a very dark reception hall this weekend - just test shots to see what would happen.

I only notice the 'split' when the camera isn't getting enough light (it's like it's fighting to process what is/isn't coming in) - Then I did some tests using it at 1/30, with 6 or 9db gain, and I maxed the gamma and used a color gain of 5. I didn't stretch the blacks much - but that would help in a pinch. This was supplemented by an on cam varilight that had a small chimera box on the front of it.

It was more light than I'm used to using in SD, but it wasn't completely obnoxious. Once I got enough light in there (via light & various gain/shutter), I saw no splits. The color in the viewfinder seems flat, but I was able to see the split if I was looking for it, and correct the situation.

The more light the better, but I feel more comfortable knowing you can still get some footage in tougher venues - just make sure you've got some light. Looking forward to their update - I'm sure it'll be cool.

Michael Maier · September 19th, 2005, 04:03 PM

Could you post some screen grabs with the slpit and without (after you tweaked the camra added light)?

September 16th, 2005, 03:41 PM	#64
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	Band-Aid solution Dave, I imported your shot into FCP5 on V1. I then copy and pasted it into V2 and LEFT CROPPED it 50% with an edge feather of 1. I then added the 3-way colour corrector to the cropped right-side (V2) and quickly created a simple adjustment to make the two sides match. Here's your original: http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/..._6-7before.jpg Here's the corrected version: http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...t_6-7after.jpg And here's the 3-way CC settings: http://homepage.mac.com/timdashwood/...screen-fix.jpg See how this works on the moving footage. Tim

September 17th, 2005, 06:32 PM	#66
Heath McKnight MPS Digital Studios Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Palm Beach County, Florida Posts: 8,531	I just wanted to re-iterate a thanks to Ken Freed from JVC--he's a VERY nice guy and I've met him personally a couple of times. He doesn't B.S. anyone and he knows his stuff. The fact that he isn't here to sell but rather help is a testament to his commitment with JVC. Thanks Ken! Next time we're at a camera show, I'll buy you a drink! Heath McKnight __________________ My Final Cut Pro X blog

September 18th, 2005, 12:48 PM	#70
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	The split screen phenomenon is indeed a function of two separate processing functions; this is confirmed by JVC. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 18th, 2005, 01:21 PM	#72
Charles Papert Wrangler Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 6,810	Michael: It was indeed a shot that I didn't post. The split screen phenomenon has been documented elsewhere so I didn't feel it necessary to include the shot in a review that was oriented specifically to the use of the Mini35 and the HD100. The clips as seen in the article were direct from the camera with no correction or processing. My best guess of why the one shot exhibited the split screen phenomenon so visibly is that it had lower contrast and more overall black in the frame, as opposed to the posted shot which had a fair amount of highlights present to help the contrast. __________________ Charles Papert www.charlespapert.com

September 15th, 2005, 09:14 PM	#62
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	Our producer Matt, reported that his shot on the beach was with stock settings. It was his first shots with the camera. He told me there was no gain. Looks kind of grainy. It's odd that the split seemed to appear and then just as quickly disappears as the scene evolved. Again, a tough condition for the electronics to address with the full sun and dark forground. Yet the clear image looks good. Speculating here, but it seems like the right half is in a seperate memory buffer that is being processed ahead or behind the left half. The camera is trying to apply seperate processing to each half. A challenge almost like trying to match two cameras perfectly. Dave B here are all the still image captures.... www.dreamtimeentertainment.com/hdv/

September 15th, 2005, 10:26 PM	#63
Guy Barwood Major Player Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 423	Looks like the black stretch is turned on for the right half of the screen, and off for the left.

September 17th, 2005, 07:27 AM	#65
Dave Beaty Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Ft. Myers, FL Posts: 240	Tim, Well, that fix is pretty close. At least it's not a total loss. We'll be sending in our camera to our dealer for, hopefully, a swap. It still bothers me the issue was so hard to produce. I tried to duplicate the split yesterday in the studio with no luck. I had the camera on DC for several hours and tried various lighting conditions. I never saw the severe splitting like in the beach. But it's there somewhere. Also, any comments on the vertical smear. I know it's a $5500 cam, but should it be so bad? Dave Beaty

September 18th, 2005, 10:59 AM	#67
Leonard Richardson Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Charleston SC Posts: 37	Hi I havn't been here in awhile. I bought a HD10U from JVC and i'm going to upgrade to a HD100 in the next year. I read alot at times on this thread and I was looking at the Pic's of the split screen shots. Could the problem be in the lens instead of the HD100. Has anyone tryed it on a different lens Would like to thank everone for there info. It makes for some good reading LHR

September 18th, 2005, 11:14 AM	#68
Werner Wesp Major Player Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Belgium Posts: 497	I really don't think it's in the lens. Rumors say it's because 2 different processors handle the left and right side of the image.

September 18th, 2005, 12:35 PM	#69
Barry Green Barry Wan Kenobi Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,863	The problem is absolutely not in the lens; there was one shot we did with the mini35 where the splitscreen effect was visible.

September 19th, 2005, 07:31 AM	#74
Shawn Alyasiri Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Bloomington, IL Posts: 256	I shot some footage in a very dark reception hall this weekend - just test shots to see what would happen. I only notice the 'split' when the camera isn't getting enough light (it's like it's fighting to process what is/isn't coming in) - Then I did some tests using it at 1/30, with 6 or 9db gain, and I maxed the gamma and used a color gain of 5. I didn't stretch the blacks much - but that would help in a pinch. This was supplemented by an on cam varilight that had a small chimera box on the front of it. It was more light than I'm used to using in SD, but it wasn't completely obnoxious. Once I got enough light in there (via light & various gain/shutter), I saw no splits. The color in the viewfinder seems flat, but I was able to see the split if I was looking for it, and correct the situation. The more light the better, but I feel more comfortable knowing you can still get some footage in tougher venues - just make sure you've got some light. Looking forward to their update - I'm sure it'll be cool.

September 19th, 2005, 04:03 PM	#75
Michael Maier Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Posts: 1,269	Could you post some screen grabs with the slpit and without (after you tweaked the camra added light)?