HDVxDV Weirdness at DVinfo.net

David Dessel · December 8th, 2005, 03:27 PM

When I batch conform a 24fps HDVxDV file to 23.98 with Cinema Tools, the resolution gets halved. Has anybody else had the problem, and it there a solution?

Tim Dashwood · December 8th, 2005, 04:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dessel

When I batch conform a 24fps HDVxDV file to 23.98 with Cinema Tools, the resolution gets halved. Has anybody else had the problem, and it there a solution?

Are you maybe using the DVCPROHD codec? Don't use the presets, use a custom output setting from HDVxDV and set it to 1280x720. DVCPROHD defaults to only 960x720

David Dessel · December 8th, 2005, 04:32 PM

Thanks for the response Tim, no, I've done that. The file is 1280 X 720 at 24fps, and then is halved in size after the 23.98 batch conform.

-Dave

David Dessel · December 8th, 2005, 04:48 PM

I just tried batch conforming a 1280 X 720 AIC file and the same thing happens. Cinema Tools cut the resolution in half.

-DD

Steve Mullen · December 8th, 2005, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Dessel

I just tried batch conforming a 1280 X 720 AIC file and the same thing happens. Cinema Tools cut the resolution in half.

-DD

There is no need to conform the 24p to 23.98 -- so don't worry about using CinemaTools.

Just use a 23.98 Sequence and drop in the 24p clips.

You only use CinemaTools for 59.94 AIC captured by an Apple product. It needs to be conformed from 29.97fps to 23.98fps.

David Dessel · December 8th, 2005, 09:12 PM

Thanks for the info Steve. I was actually able to solve the problem by opening up the file in Quicktime, selecting "actual size," and re-saving the file.

Before I discovered this, I had loaded the half rez-ed clips into After Effects. Visually, they appeared low rez compared to the same file that was not processed with Cinema Tools. It seems that Cinema Tools was not only changing the frame rate, but the descritptor that indentifies the resolution of the file.

-Dave Dessel

Tim Dashwood · December 8th, 2005, 10:31 PM

That is so weird that this is happening to you guys because I've never had Cinema Tools change the resolution.

Does it show up as 640 x 360 when you import into after effects?

I haven't imported any conformed clips into after effects, just FCP which works fine.

David Dessel · December 9th, 2005, 05:51 AM

Yes Tim, not only does it show up as 640 x 360 in After Effects, but in Quicktime as well. I exported the same file twice with HDVxDV. Conformed one copy to 23.98 with Cinema Tool and left the other alone.

Loading both in After Effects, I scaled the 640 x 360 clip back up to 1280 x 720. Visually, it looked much lower rez than the intouched clip and AE lists the file's dimentions as 640 x 360.

As mentioned earlier, opening the file in Quicktime, selecting "Acutual Size," and resaving solves the problem.

I quess one could create an Automator Script to batch the files again through Quicktime. I haven't had time to try this yet.

Best Regards,

Dave Dessel

Nate Weaver · December 9th, 2005, 10:44 AM

David,

There's two resolution in a Quicktime file you could say...the real resolution the data is in, and then the resolution the file is flagged to display at.

If you notice when you open the file to conform in Cinema Tools, it opens in a half-size window. For some reason when CT saves the QT header back, it also saves back this display size.

You can conform this by opening the conformed file in Quicktime Player...and doing a "Show Info" on the movie. It will show 1280x720 as movie size, and then 640x360 as current size.

Resize to 1280x720 in Quicktime Player Pro, and then save, and then the applications not seeing it right will see it at correct size now.

[edit: doh. Problem solved. I'm so smart, I didn't even read all the way through the thread]

David Dessel · December 9th, 2005, 02:29 PM

Nate,

Thanks much for clearing that up.

-DD

Nate Weaver · December 9th, 2005, 02:37 PM

Heh.

I think it was cleared up before I went on a typing rampage :-)

Tim Dashwood · December 9th, 2005, 02:40 PM

This must mean that FCP looks at the true resolution, but After Effects looks at the playback size flag.

Steve Mullen · December 9th, 2005, 04:00 PM

It would be nice if someone wrote an MPEG-2 TOOL.

For example, when iDVD didn't support 16:9 I published a way using HEX EDIT to change the flags in an MPEG-2 file. Now the file played in 16:9.

We need tools that both report these flags and let us change them without going into the image data. It would be a nice addition to HDVxDV.

I keep wondering why HDVxDV tags captured 24P as 24.0 rather than 23.98. And, why he hasn't fixed this yet.

December 8th, 2005, 03:27 PM	#1
David Dessel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	HDVxDV Weirdness When I batch conform a 24fps HDVxDV file to 23.98 with Cinema Tools, the resolution gets halved. Has anybody else had the problem, and it there a solution?

December 8th, 2005, 04:32 PM	#3
David Dessel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Did That Thanks for the response Tim, no, I've done that. The file is 1280 X 720 at 24fps, and then is halved in size after the 23.98 batch conform. -Dave

December 8th, 2005, 04:48 PM	#4
David Dessel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	AIC Too I just tried batch conforming a 1280 X 720 AIC file and the same thing happens. Cinema Tools cut the resolution in half. -DD

December 8th, 2005, 09:12 PM	#6
David Dessel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Solved Thanks for the info Steve. I was actually able to solve the problem by opening up the file in Quicktime, selecting "actual size," and re-saving the file. Before I discovered this, I had loaded the half rez-ed clips into After Effects. Visually, they appeared low rez compared to the same file that was not processed with Cinema Tools. It seems that Cinema Tools was not only changing the frame rate, but the descritptor that indentifies the resolution of the file. -Dave Dessel

December 8th, 2005, 10:31 PM	#7
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	That is so weird that this is happening to you guys because I've never had Cinema Tools change the resolution. Does it show up as 640 x 360 when you import into after effects? I haven't imported any conformed clips into after effects, just FCP which works fine. __________________ Tim Dashwood

December 9th, 2005, 05:51 AM	#8
David Dessel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	640 x 360?...Yes Yes Tim, not only does it show up as 640 x 360 in After Effects, but in Quicktime as well. I exported the same file twice with HDVxDV. Conformed one copy to 23.98 with Cinema Tool and left the other alone. Loading both in After Effects, I scaled the 640 x 360 clip back up to 1280 x 720. Visually, it looked much lower rez than the intouched clip and AE lists the file's dimentions as 640 x 360. As mentioned earlier, opening the file in Quicktime, selecting "Acutual Size," and resaving solves the problem. I quess one could create an Automator Script to batch the files again through Quicktime. I haven't had time to try this yet. Best Regards, Dave Dessel

December 9th, 2005, 10:44 AM	#9
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	David, There's two resolution in a Quicktime file you could say...the real resolution the data is in, and then the resolution the file is flagged to display at. If you notice when you open the file to conform in Cinema Tools, it opens in a half-size window. For some reason when CT saves the QT header back, it also saves back this display size. You can conform this by opening the conformed file in Quicktime Player...and doing a "Show Info" on the movie. It will show 1280x720 as movie size, and then 640x360 as current size. Resize to 1280x720 in Quicktime Player Pro, and then save, and then the applications not seeing it right will see it at correct size now. [edit: doh. Problem solved. I'm so smart, I didn't even read all the way through the thread] __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

December 9th, 2005, 02:29 PM	#10
David Dessel Regular Crew Join Date: Sep 2005 Posts: 41	Testing the Software Nate, Thanks much for clearing that up. -DD

December 9th, 2005, 02:37 PM	#11
Nate Weaver Wrangler Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 2,100	Heh. I think it was cleared up before I went on a typing rampage :-) __________________ My Work: nateweaver.net

December 9th, 2005, 02:40 PM	#12
Tim Dashwood Wrangler Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Toronto, ON, Canada Posts: 3,637	This must mean that FCP looks at the true resolution, but After Effects looks at the playback size flag. __________________ Tim Dashwood

December 9th, 2005, 04:00 PM	#13
Steve Mullen HDV Cinema Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Las Vegas Posts: 4,007	It would be nice if someone wrote an MPEG-2 TOOL. For example, when iDVD didn't support 16:9 I published a way using HEX EDIT to change the flags in an MPEG-2 file. Now the file played in 16:9. We need tools that both report these flags and let us change them without going into the image data. It would be a nice addition to HDVxDV. I keep wondering why HDVxDV tags captured 24P as 24.0 rather than 23.98. And, why he hasn't fixed this yet. __________________ Switcher's Quick Guide to the Avid Media Composer >>> http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c