More Tape Questions at DVinfo.net

Tim Holtermann · February 3rd, 2006, 11:06 PM

Ok, so I found some old threads about what tape stock to use with the HD100 but nothing seemed very concrete. I can't imagine that only JVC tape can be put in this camera, the manual says use JVC tape stock but all camera manufactures say this about their brand. I really want to use something besides JVC tape because you can't find it anywhere. Even the major online tape stock sites don't carry it.

I need tape that can be picked up anywhere so in cases where tape is needed last minute you can actually find some. I've heard the rumor about no Sony tape in the JVC but what other brands can you use with confidence?

Jiri Bakala · February 3rd, 2006, 11:30 PM

It was my question and from some further research I came to this conclusion:

SONY tapes use 'wet' lubrication
Everybody else uses 'dry' lubrication

There is nothing wrong with either, the key is NOT to switch between brands. It's probably not a big deal to go from say, Panasonic to Fuji but it could be a problem if you switch between Sony and the others because the types of lubrication don't mix very well. Both sides of the debate will claim that theirs is better (of course). I like SONY and have been using them for years without problems (in my previous camera). I have started using the highest grade HDV SONY in my new HD100 but have't run enough to be able to say if it's okay. Many people use them in the Z1U (including me) without any problems.

Here, sort of an answer...:-) you still have to make a decission on your own...

Jemore Santos · February 4th, 2006, 01:28 AM

I second that, I use ONLY Sony special HDV tapes because it is readily available.

Tim Holtermann · February 4th, 2006, 09:08 AM

Ok, so the key being don't switch brands after you start. I already have a bunch of Sony HD tape so maybe I'll just start with it and stay with it. It is available at several stores near me so that is good.

I would think if Sony tape damaged the HD100 you would have a pretty good legal claim on your hands. 1. No where in the JVC documentation does it say you can't use "Wet" lubrication style tapes. 2. The Sony tape says this tape can be used in any VCR that displays the DV logo.

Tom Chaney · February 4th, 2006, 10:42 AM

Hi Tim,

I just ordered the JVC tape at Express Video Supply. Which I believe is www.evsonline.com

It shipped out yesterday, so they have it.

Tom

Diogo Athouguia · February 4th, 2006, 10:51 AM

From what I've read on someone's post, JVC told him he should use JVC or Panasonic branded tapes. I bought some cheap JVC that can be easily found for about €3, and I also bought some professional Panasonic tapes of 63 and 83 min. I believe that JVC and Panasonic tapes are probably the same.

Tim Holtermann · February 4th, 2006, 11:03 AM

Well I want/need to shoot something today so I can't wait for EVS to ship the tapes. I might have driven to EVS to get them but they are closed today.

I can probably get some JVC brand tapes down the street but they will be standard minDV tapes. Not the ones designed for HD. Do you think these will work well enough for now? I need to go to EVS next week anyway, so I can just grab the good HD ones then. At least it will keep me from mixing tape brands or using the Sony HD tape I have.

Jiri Bakala · February 4th, 2006, 11:11 AM

If your shoot matters, buy good quality tapes. Whether you decide to go with SONY or the 'dry' type tape brands is up to you. It always amazes me that people are concerned about finding 'cheap' tapes. Maybe that is the root of the head problems some describe. BTW, one of the better pro tape suppliers in the UK told me that they had a bad experience with JVC tapes. My $0.02 is go either with the pro grade HDV branded Panasonic or SONY. (I am assuming that people who spend some $6k on a camera are not shooting home movies with it and quality and dropouts matter to them ...:-)

Oh yes, Fuji is also a good brand but they don't have an HDV type tape yet. Good luck.

Tim Holtermann · February 4th, 2006, 11:21 AM

I have no interest in cheap tapes. I have a stack of pro sony HD tapes that I'm ready to put in this camera (plus I can get them down the street any time I need to) but I've read reports about not using Sony tape in the HD100. Who knows how true this is but it's something to think about.

The JVC Pro HD tape is not cheap by any means but now we have someone saying the JVC tape is not good. huh?

If brand switching is a problem then I'll stick to one. I can either buy the less expensive standard miniDV tape by JVC to get by this one time, then buy the pro version later this week or I can use the Sony I have now and stick with it forever.

Seems there is no credible evidence in either case.

Jiri Bakala · February 4th, 2006, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tim Holtermann

Seems there is no credible evidence in either case.

Unfortunatelly.
I went with SONY. Also, it is my understanding that switching between the 'dry' types is not a problem, so going from Panasonic to JVC ProHD should be okay....but again, as you said; no credible evidence in either case. One suggestion everyone seems to agree on is that if you have to switch between 'dry' and 'wet' brands, use a cleaning tape in between. Not a good idea to do it a lot but in a crunch... it should help.

Stephen L. Noe · February 4th, 2006, 11:31 AM

The JVC ME tapes (cheapies) have never given me a problem Click here. They are cheap but they always work with no dropouts. I've used the JVC ProHD tapes as well and I really don't see any difference from the standard ME tapes.

Mike Marriage · February 4th, 2006, 12:21 PM

The only time I have seen any difference in tape stock was when shooting DVCAM on a DSR 570 and PD150. We shot using a mix of tape stock and then tried to play them back using my own Panasonic camera.

The TDK ME tapes played perfectly.
The Sony DVCAM tapes played, but badly. Dropout every few seconds.
JVC, Maxell, Standard Sony, Pany ME wouldn't play at all. You got a very scrambled picture, almost constant breakup.

It may be to do with my Panasonic camera, but to me it suggested that the signal was most robust on the TDKs, then Sony DVCAM and worst on the others.

Of course, a DVCAM compatible deck or camera played all the tapes fine. Zero breakup. I can never recall seeing breakup on any DVCAM recording played on an offical DVCAM product - just this strange, semi-compatible thing with Panasonic cameras. Can anyone explain it?

Jiri Bakala · February 4th, 2006, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike Marriage

Of course, a DVCAM compatible deck or camera played all the tapes fine. Zero breakup. I can never recall seeing breakup on any DVCAM recording played on an offical DVCAM product - just this strange, semi-compatible thing with Panasonic cameras. Can anyone explain it?

If the player is not DVCAM compatible, it just won't play DVCAM tapes. If it played some, it's really weird, perhaps those were recorded on the DSR170 in DV mode. Anything from DSR570 is DVCAM (no option to record in DV) and it simply won't play on a DV-only machine. It has nothing to do with tape brands or quality. I used to have DSR500 and used mostly SONY tapes but on occassion also small Fuji (here we go, mixing wet and dry lubricants) with absolutely no problems. But DSR500/570 are broadcast quality cameras with robust heads and tape transfer. Also, it's SD. The JVC is of course HD and I don't think the heads and transport are as solid as those of the Sony bigger cameras. They would be also more sensitive to dropouts because of their long GOP.

Mike Marriage · February 4th, 2006, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jiri Bakala

If the player is not DVCAM compatible, it just won't play DVCAM tapes. If it played some, it's really weird, perhaps those were recorded on the DSR170 in DV mode. Anything from DSR570 is DVCAM (no option to record in DV) and it simply won't play on a DV-only machine. It has nothing to do with tape brands or quality.

Panasonic cameras WILL play DVCAM footage. I've tried on more than one camera too, but it is unreliable. I also think every Sony DV camera (I've tried 5 or 10) will play DVCAM recordings perfectly. Canon's will not play DVCAM at all.

It is definitely to do with difference in tape stock(on Panasonics). We tested it because my DP didn't want to use anything but Sony DVCAM, so I had to prove my findings with the (dirt cheap) TDK tapes. It was definitely in DVCAM mode on the PD150 aswell, using the same camera at the same time and just changing the stock. I made sure the tape was the only varible. Afterwards I tried a different batch of TDKs and they were not as good as the first. It may be a batch difference, I have had that with DVD-Rs.

Rush Hamden · February 6th, 2006, 01:40 AM

We have been healthfully selling the Sony HDV tapes with the JVC camera with no reports of issues. As well, using them in our rental department.

February 3rd, 2006, 11:06 PM	#1
Tim Holtermann Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 184	More Tape Questions Ok, so I found some old threads about what tape stock to use with the HD100 but nothing seemed very concrete. I can't imagine that only JVC tape can be put in this camera, the manual says use JVC tape stock but all camera manufactures say this about their brand. I really want to use something besides JVC tape because you can't find it anywhere. Even the major online tape stock sites don't carry it. I need tape that can be picked up anywhere so in cases where tape is needed last minute you can actually find some. I've heard the rumor about no Sony tape in the JVC but what other brands can you use with confidence?

February 3rd, 2006, 11:30 PM	#2
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	It was my question and from some further research I came to this conclusion: SONY tapes use 'wet' lubrication Everybody else uses 'dry' lubrication There is nothing wrong with either, the key is NOT to switch between brands. It's probably not a big deal to go from say, Panasonic to Fuji but it could be a problem if you switch between Sony and the others because the types of lubrication don't mix very well. Both sides of the debate will claim that theirs is better (of course). I like SONY and have been using them for years without problems (in my previous camera). I have started using the highest grade HDV SONY in my new HD100 but have't run enough to be able to say if it's okay. Many people use them in the Z1U (including me) without any problems. Here, sort of an answer...:-) you still have to make a decission on your own... __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

February 4th, 2006, 01:28 AM	#3
Jemore Santos Major Player Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Tokyo/Sydney Posts: 297	I second that, I use ONLY Sony special HDV tapes because it is readily available. __________________ "eyes through a digital world"

February 4th, 2006, 11:11 AM	#8
Jiri Bakala Major Player Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: Kelowna BC Canada Posts: 706	Don't Use Cheap Tapes If your shoot matters, buy good quality tapes. Whether you decide to go with SONY or the 'dry' type tape brands is up to you. It always amazes me that people are concerned about finding 'cheap' tapes. Maybe that is the root of the head problems some describe. BTW, one of the better pro tape suppliers in the UK told me that they had a bad experience with JVC tapes. My $0.02 is go either with the pro grade HDV branded Panasonic or SONY. (I am assuming that people who spend some $6k on a camera are not shooting home movies with it and quality and dropouts matter to them ...:-) Oh yes, Fuji is also a good brand but they don't have an HDV type tape yet. Good luck. __________________ www.ascentfilms.com

February 6th, 2006, 01:40 AM	#15
Rush Hamden Regular Crew Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Burbank, California Posts: 122	We have been healthfully selling the Sony HDV tapes with the JVC camera with no reports of issues. As well, using them in our rental department. __________________ Want to get more from your hard-earned gear? Digital Cinema Filmmaking Course 24 hours of educational video on 16 DVDs, focused on filmmaking savvy, examples, demonstrations, and tips. Learn Scriptwriting, Formatting, Editing, Camera Operation, Lighting, Exposure, Audio, and Directing.

February 4th, 2006, 09:08 AM	#4
Tim Holtermann Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 184	Ok, so the key being don't switch brands after you start. I already have a bunch of Sony HD tape so maybe I'll just start with it and stay with it. It is available at several stores near me so that is good. I would think if Sony tape damaged the HD100 you would have a pretty good legal claim on your hands. 1. No where in the JVC documentation does it say you can't use "Wet" lubrication style tapes. 2. The Sony tape says this tape can be used in any VCR that displays the DV logo.

February 4th, 2006, 10:42 AM	#5
Tom Chaney Regular Crew Join Date: Oct 2005 Posts: 196	Hi Tim, I just ordered the JVC tape at Express Video Supply. Which I believe is www.evsonline.com It shipped out yesterday, so they have it. Tom

February 4th, 2006, 10:51 AM	#6
Diogo Athouguia Major Player Join Date: May 2005 Location: Portugal Posts: 282	From what I've read on someone's post, JVC told him he should use JVC or Panasonic branded tapes. I bought some cheap JVC that can be easily found for about €3, and I also bought some professional Panasonic tapes of 63 and 83 min. I believe that JVC and Panasonic tapes are probably the same.

February 4th, 2006, 11:03 AM	#7
Tim Holtermann Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 184	Well I want/need to shoot something today so I can't wait for EVS to ship the tapes. I might have driven to EVS to get them but they are closed today. I can probably get some JVC brand tapes down the street but they will be standard minDV tapes. Not the ones designed for HD. Do you think these will work well enough for now? I need to go to EVS next week anyway, so I can just grab the good HD ones then. At least it will keep me from mixing tape brands or using the Sony HD tape I have.

February 4th, 2006, 11:21 AM	#9
Tim Holtermann Regular Crew Join Date: Feb 2006 Posts: 184	I have no interest in cheap tapes. I have a stack of pro sony HD tapes that I'm ready to put in this camera (plus I can get them down the street any time I need to) but I've read reports about not using Sony tape in the HD100. Who knows how true this is but it's something to think about. The JVC Pro HD tape is not cheap by any means but now we have someone saying the JVC tape is not good. huh? If brand switching is a problem then I'll stick to one. I can either buy the less expensive standard miniDV tape by JVC to get by this one time, then buy the pro version later this week or I can use the Sony I have now and stick with it forever. Seems there is no credible evidence in either case.

February 4th, 2006, 11:31 AM	#11
Stephen L. Noe Trustee Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Chicago Posts: 1,214	The JVC ME tapes (cheapies) have never given me a problem Click here. They are cheap but they always work with no dropouts. I've used the JVC ProHD tapes as well and I really don't see any difference from the standard ME tapes.

February 4th, 2006, 12:21 PM	#12
Mike Marriage Major Player Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: NE of London, England Posts: 788	The only time I have seen any difference in tape stock was when shooting DVCAM on a DSR 570 and PD150. We shot using a mix of tape stock and then tried to play them back using my own Panasonic camera. The TDK ME tapes played perfectly. The Sony DVCAM tapes played, but badly. Dropout every few seconds. JVC, Maxell, Standard Sony, Pany ME wouldn't play at all. You got a very scrambled picture, almost constant breakup. It may be to do with my Panasonic camera, but to me it suggested that the signal was most robust on the TDKs, then Sony DVCAM and worst on the others. Of course, a DVCAM compatible deck or camera played all the tapes fine. Zero breakup. I can never recall seeing breakup on any DVCAM recording played on an offical DVCAM product - just this strange, semi-compatible thing with Panasonic cameras. Can anyone explain it?