ALERT: Power OFF before changing Firewire or switching HDV/DV
 

We've had quite a few reports lately of blown IEEE1394 Firewire circuits in the HD100/101.
The culprit seems to be the fact that 6-pin to 6-pin firewire cables carry enough bus power from your computer to short the FW circuit in the camera if you attempt to insert the plug backwards or on an angle.

It seems JVC is now including a Caution sheet with new cameras and "A" upgrades warning of this danger. The warning was always in the manual on page 54, but never in such clear terms.

To avoid a possible blown circuit and required repair JVC suggests that you:

• Turn the power of both devices OFF before connecting the IEEE1394 Firewire cable.
• Do not connect the IEEE1394 Firewire cable under "the condition of static electricity."
• Turn the power of both devices OFF before changing the IEEE1394 switch from/to HDV/DV.

For extra assurance, I would also recommend the use of a firewire port isolator.

Another stellar suggestion (made by someone) is to get a 6 pin to 4 pin connector. If your wokstation has an iLink (4pin) connector you can avoid any problem by connecting to the 4 pin which doesn't carry any bus power whatsoever.

otherwise the "caution" is a word to the wise....

Very few workstations have a 4 pin firewire because they have enough power to run external devices so they use a 6 pin connector. The Compaq laptop I am using now has a 4 pin, but it's the only computer I have seen with a 4 pin. I suspect that they didn't want the additional battery drain by trying to supply external power.

I agree with Tim. On 6 pin to 6 pin cables, a port isolator is a good idea.

-gb-

With Edius NX HD the supplied in-out panel has 4pin iLink

Laszlo

Also with any Sony workstation there is always an iLink, but your right, not all computers have 4pin iLink connections. For those that do, it's wise to use it.

all the best guys..

I'm a big fan of this camera but let's be honest...this should have been fixed with the "A" upgrade. A little paper with a warning on it is hardly enough. If you manufacture a camera that accepts a "hot" bus powered 6 pin cable then make sure your hardware can handle it.

The hardware can handle it. Follow the instructions. Don't hotswap. If JVC tells you don't do it, and then you do it and you break it, now who's fault is that?

If it gets your goose that much, then buy a 6pin to 6pin that doesn't pass power.

No the hardware can't handle it. I'm all for following instructions, in fact I'm one of the few that actually reads a manual before using something. I've never blown my HD100 but I can see how it could easily happen in a production enviroment.

This isn't a home camera. It's marketed as a "PRO" camera and I would guess to be used as such. Do you hear about other Pro cameras blowing their hardware out when plugged into a Firewire port? Sometimes during hectic production there are many hands touching this gear and things can happen. Equipment that is designed for production should be able to take some abuse.

This camera is great, I love it, but it's not without some design issues. Let's not make excuses and say that a piece of paper is a fix.

P.S. But you are right. People should read the warning and follow the instructions.

Just this weekend at our Texas HD Shootout, we had a Z1 which fried its FireWire connection (most likely operator error due to hot-swapping; I'm just glad I never touched it).

The manufacturer's advice to simply not hot-swap is solid. Since it is a professional camera, then it's safe to assume it'll be operated professionally. If JVC idiot-proofed everything on the camera, then it would have only a zoom rocker and a rec button. Frankly I don't think there's anything wrong with taking some responsibility for one's own actions and actually powering the gear down. In a professional environment that should be standard operating procedure anyway.

The piece of paper is a good cautionary warning, but a responsible camera operator and a working professional would never need to read it.

Let's not split hair here. There are and were issues with this camera and for the most part JVC addressed them. In "pro" production environment cameras are not used as spooler decks. End of story. So, if anyone needs to use their camera that way, and it could happen, they'd better follow the instructions. The notion that this should have been 'fixed' in the A upgrade is just plain silly. And by the way, this is not just a "JVC problem", as I mentioned before, we had this happen to a SONY XDCAM deck and as much as I like Macs, it might be rather an Apple problem, if anything. Perhaps it is just the result of trying to accommodate everyone at once. Some demand power through FW, others want hot-swappability - the result is a risk of power short that could damage the circuitry. Apparently, we cannot have it all... Pick you battles and compromises you can live with...:-)

The warning was always in the manual on page 54 "Connecting the IEEE1394 Cable," but never in such clear terms.
Quote from manual: "Connect the cables and set the switches with the power on the device OFF."

I think there are simply too many cameras coming back with blown circuits (that JVC has repaired under warranty) and the new caution sheet is just a "friendly reminder" that will probably also relieve them of responsibility in the future.

Seems like a 4-pin connector on the camera would have avoided this issue. Anyone know why they put the 6-pin there in the first place? (power an external HD perhaps? The FireStores don't mention bus power though)

The 4-pins fall out too easily when you are tethered in a production situation.

We all have valid points....

I've used many pro cameras and have NEVER had to power them down to make a connection. Why doesn't you computer and other firewire hardware blow up when you hot swap? You guys are forgetting something - The firewire specification calls for HOT SWAP. This means that JVC is not manufacturing their equipment to the correct specifications as it should be able to handle a firewire cable with current in it.

Also remember that the firewire cable is used for more then dumping your tape contents. So the fact that you use an external deck to offload footage does not excuse the ease of blowing this hardware.

This can't be fun for JVC either. It makes for bad press, ties up their service centers and cost them money when replacing via Warranty. Why not just improve the circuits on the next rev? If we as customers just accept bad design and don't provide feedback how can we expect them to be improved?

It's not limited to JVC though. Yes firewire is engineered to be hot-swappable, but the simple fact is that there are reports from HD100 owners, DVX owners, FX1 owners, and Z1 owners that all say they've blown their firewire ports by hot-swapping.

And all those other cameras have 4-pin ports. Most of the reports of blown firewire ports seem to come from Mac users; I don't know if it's because most Mac laptops have 6-pin ports, vs. PC laptops that typically feature 4-pin ports?

So I don't know exactly what to say here other than: whether you like it or not, whether it's convenient or not, it certainly seems wise to shut the camera down before connecting/disconnecting the firewire cable.

Yep, Tim, I know that is the explication JVC gives "it is much more robust...", but actually, the 6-pins firewire on my HD101 gives a very, very loose connection, whereas with my XL1/XL2 before (4-pins), I actually had to put some effort and strength in getting the connector in....

6 pin firewire cables smoking the ports on other devices IS NOT a jvc issue.

This can happen to ANY Camera/Deck.

One of our rental facilities had this happen on a regular basis. They finally put a sheet of paper on the decks in their hard cases warning users that they would be liable if they smoked the port.

It also mentioned this happened specifically on a version of O/S X and was more a of a problem due to the "state" that the power connectors were in.

It can also happen to any device if you plug it in and short the terminals do to improper angle insertion.

I guess just have the camera switched off. No big deal. One of the guys said that the 6 pin connector is loose. I agree it is not tight at all. It's so loose in fact that I was looking at the tabs on the sides of the connector and thinking about giving them some "re-engineering" so that the cable hangs in there more solidly. It's the same on the deck. Loose!

Could be. I was talking to a guy who was doing tech work at the local college's Mac lab where they do video editing. He mentioned problems with students connecting their firewire hard drives. Sometimes the drive blows etc. They now require students to power everything off when connecting/disconnecting.

Maybe it's easy to short the wrong wires when plugging in. I'm guessing JVC is going to use the power for the hard drive recorder. Anybody know how it's powered?

Some HVX users have wondered why Panny went with 4 pins. Maybe this is why.

indeed stephen, I was already thinking wether that is 'supposed to be done', since the metal ousides of the plug aren't conceiled anyway...

I really like the idea of that isolater to solve the problem.

So just to confirm, if you use that isolater that effectively removes the power pins on the 6-pin firewire port, there is no chance of smoking the firewire port on the device correct?

I'd just rather get one and hot plug because its a pain powering down everytime.

What about the TDK loops provided? Isn't that intended to stabalize the 6 Pin power and allow it to be hot swappable? My biggest problem is the 6pin to 6pin cables that I have are all fat and do not fit in the TDK (I forget the metal contained inside) loops. The only thin 1394 cables I have are for 4 pins.

Any thoughts?

Use a 6-pin to 4-pin wire with a 4pin to 6-pin adapter, perhaps?

No, the ferrite cores are for filtering out electrical noise.

Yeah, I was a victim of this. I was out of commishion for a month, hence the wheelchair new camera and refurbished G5.

There is one TDK loop provided for fat fire-wire cables, I have it on mine and this cable is a fat one like all 6 to 6 pin.

I put my PC on stand by mode before connecting the turned off camera, I think this is safe enought and won't take the necessary time for turning off and back on the PC.

I'm not sure about it being "acceptable" engineering. The IEEE spec was designed to be "hot swappable", therefore any device on the chain should be exactly that. Sadly this is not the case and many firewire devices are unprotected.
As far as the electronics go, wherever there is a chance of inadvertantly mixing polarity, there should be some kind of protective device built into the circuit (usually a 5c zener diode or something).
At least JVC provide a warning. However their housing is lousy and should be fixed with something much heavier duty.

Fw
 

Canopus have always given a warning over firewire 4 pin sockets and tbh I have always myself been wary of 4 and 6 pin FW sockets, the best plug socket combo is actually the FW800 9 pin, why that is not used for camera's I'll never know.

1) when they say power off devices - do they mean BOTH the camera and computer?
2) How many Clamp filters were provided? I got 1 black Clamp filter and 4core filters (grey)
3) Did they give a IEEE1394 connector? I cant find any firewire cable in the box... (Manual Page 3 - says "IEEE1394 6pin connector provided)

"For extra assurance, I would also recommend the use of a firewire port isolator."


Tim,
Are you saying this is a fix or should be used as well as tuning off my computer and camera to hook up the FW cable?

Thanks,
Jon

Always turn them off, with or without the isolator.

Will do, thanks.

Don't you think it's a bit unpractical to turn the computer off, re-boot and all that, re-load the program, etc. every time you need to download something?

The good thing of firewire connectors is just the opposite: than you can plug or unplug any external unit without booting your your computer, as on other devices. Why lose that?

Wrong advice I think.

If there's a problem that JVC can't solve, let's go about the problem in a different way.

The cable isolator seems like a good approach. It probably has input transformers blocking any DC that might get through and maybe causing the "frying" problems. Transformers are a good thing in digital lines if they are good quality.

This cable seems reasonably priced too:

http://www.abelcine.com/store/produc...cat=252&page=1

In any case, plugging and unplugging these connectors on the camera end, which are usually the small 1394 type, is a certain death in the long run. Deal with them with love and care.

My advice is: when you are editing something, leave the camera cable plugged-in all the time. In fact leave that cable plugged in on your camera as long as you can. Only unplug it when you are going to shoot.

The ideal thing would be to use a separate HDV player, but they are not cheap.

There's some good advice here on people dealing with firewire on Macs:

http://www.macintouch.com/readerrepo...topic2188.html

Good for PC owners like me too.

Discharging the cable before connecting to the PC end sounds like a good advice, even if a bit unpractical.

The port isolator seems like the better option, particularly because your access to the terminal would be easier, as you can keep it up-front.

Now that I remember, my Canopus ADVC100 interface, that I use to convert analog video to firewire, has small and large 1394 sockets. It's quite likely it has transformers inside. I think I will start using those sockets instead of the ones on the back of my PC.

That's the flaw with firewire, it could fry the componints. Isolators do not solve anything, but maybe reducing the risk a little, and obviously hot swapping firewire may cause a problem, and it has, for most people. My advise was better safe then sorry. What is the big deal in powering off before you plug in and un-plug firewire hardware? Obviously you leave cables pluged in while working with the devices, so what is your advise exactly?

Really Its a safe bet and a good one at that.

Just because firewire is "supposed to be" hot-swappable doesn't mean you should do it. I've seen firewire drives fried, as well as the cards on computers when people plug or unplug them without shutting down first. It's just a natural precaution to do so.

problem connecting my JVC GY HD100UA and my powerbook G4
 

I am using a firewire cable (standard) but FCP does not recognize the external device (my JVC camcorder). I have turned everything off, connected the two devices, then turned the camera on and then turned the powerbook on. Still no luck.
Any suggestion?
Cecilia

The camera needs to be in VTR mode, the switch needs to be in HDV, and the frame rate needs to be 720P30. FCP needs to be version 5 or higher and you need to set your capture preset to HDV 720P30 (use the easy setup option.)
Currently FCP 5.0 - 5.1.1 only supports 720P30 from the HD100. A forthcoming update from Apple will add capture support for 720P24.
Search the forum for 720P24 alternatives like HDVxDV, LumiereHD, DVHSCap, MPEG Streamclip, or the "iMovie/AIC method"

I blew my previous cam's firewire port (4 pin) as well as the PC's firewire port - at the same time...I either connected whilst both were on (hot swapping - very likely...if it's ok for USB's I thought...) or the thunder storm occuring at the time threw them both out. Had to get a cheap mini dv cam to use purely as a DV out machine (still using the blown cam for recording).

Any idea where I can pick up a port isolator? Can't seem to find referance to these in the UK??
Thanks.