It's not my approval you need... it's JVC's.

If it were up to me, we'd have pictures all over the place. But I'm not about to risk the associated IP / copyright violations, so the safe and smart thing to do is to respect the wishes of JVC America on this.

Besides, on the day the camera is officially launched, photos will be everywhere... and that date isn't very long from now.

Yes -- these are all part of ProHD product line. I thought we had stated that.

Unclear on the format...

Unclear on the concept...

With the PL Mount the JVC HDxxx can utilize cine lenses. I simply wish we could use Nikons SLR lenses with this camera and this adaptor. Without a 35mm lens adaptor (letus, brevis, etc) we can't. Sorry for the confusion.

Unless you want to use Nikon SLR lenses for extreme telephoto effects, you'll always need some kind of relay lens to refocus the image onto a 1/3" sensor. You can buy straight lens adaptors from Mike Tapas (MTF Services Ltd), among others, that will let you attach a Nikon-mount lens onto any JVC ProHD camera (including, I suspect, the new HM700). However, the field of view on a 1/3" chip is roughly 7 times narrower than what you would expect for the equivalent focal length on a 35m camera. So, a 200mm lens on a 1/3" chip looks something like a 1400mm lens would look on a 35mm camera. Very, very cool if you want to shoot wildlife, the moon, or surfers a quarter-mile away. Not so useful for most other things.

Now, if you're asking if JVC could include some kind of relay lens in the body of the camera to reduce that Nikon 200mm lens image to something a 1/3" chip could handle without cropping, that would also be very cool. However, since similar after-market lens adapters run into the thousands of dollars, I expect it would be prohibitively expensive, and would price the new camera out of its intended market.

You've been spending too much time on the Red site! Dream on! I don't recall any major camera manufacturer ever giving a trade-in allowance, let alone 3/4 of the current price of a new camera. Again, would be exceptionally cool of JVC, but I find it hard to imagine.

Brian, does the MTF adaptor address the flange focal distance issue so that infinity focus is possible with Nikon lenses? My reading has led me to believe that the Nikon lens would need to sit INSIDE the camera to allow infinite focus or non-macro focus, depending on where I read.

I don't believe it's a problem with the MTF adaptor. I certainly haven't had any difficulty focusing on infinity with mine, using a Nikkor 80-200mm lens on a JVC HD100.

I can't read it clearly but I think I see 4.4 on the zoom ring, wider than 5.5 on the fuji 16x.

Comparing it to a pic of the HD200, it looks wider. 4" inch Native 16:9 LCD?

Which would make it NEARLY as wide as the Fuji 18x 4.2... Interesting...

yes the new lens is very interesting
 

if they market and price towards the 17x end of the scale instead of the 18x Fujinon, it would put a higher quality WA lens into our hands at a decent price and keep the JVC HDPro camera's up there in the video quality game.

Actually, the 18x is a PREMIUM lens. Cost at B&H is over $9000. More than the 13x wide angle. The 16x is of course the stock lens.

And to echo the sentiment, yes, a lens comparable to (or better than) the 17x (and wider!) would certainly be welcome.

But not much wider than the Fuji 16x with the .82 converter attached (4.5 mm).

If you want a really wide 1/3" lens, it seems the Fuji 13x is still the only game in town.

gyhm700
 

any update about trading in gyhd 251
for new HM700?

Also I had heaps of problems with noise levels in underlight (or darkish) areas of footage from the 251e, very dissapointing, but since setting master black to -3 I have noticed a big difference in lack of noise, at the expense of becoming a less sensitive camera.
Anyone have any comments on this?

I think the trade-in program will be either one of two industry standard
procedures: either ebay.com or our own private classifieds section.

why should they trade it in?

The demand for the new HM series will grow by itself - event from existing HDxxx users.

uli

HM700 Link is up at JVC's Site (With Pics!!!)
 

JVC Professional Features page

Ok, I guess this is real now. No more skulking around foreign sites with CH wondering/worrying if all is well.

Does anyone know what the second file format extension is when using the HM100 or HM700? The cameras are obviously .mov compatible, but I'm confused as to what we get on the PC side. What does "ISO based" mean? On the HM700 page it states that it can record to XDCAM EX compatible .mp4 files only with the optional SxS recorder. What is the extension going to be when shooting to the SDHC cards?

looks SWEET... actually looks just like I expected, but the specs look SWEET.....

Can not wait to see footage....

OUCH: $7995.00!!!!!

Good question Brian. That would be very frustrating if I have to buy a extra $1700 SXS recorder in order to get footage into Avid from the 700.

OUCH: $9600.00!!!!! with SXS!! (Although it does over and undercrank)

And I haven't even bought batteries yet.

Price is much higher than I expected. Not saying it's not worth it because we haven't seen any footage from it.

Thanks for the link Shaun!

Yes it would be really pricey if you have to buy a SXS recorder in order to use this camera with Avid. Perhaps there is a workaround to use these Quicktime files with other NLE's. Other then that, what a great camera!

Maybe I should start looking for used V-lock batteries and a charger already...

Very, very impressive. It seems priced to compete with the detachable-lens PMW-EX3 by Sony. It's $325 cheaper than the EX3 (using B&H's current price for the EX3).

It's got a marvellous set of features, the old ones that we know and love plus bigger LCD, better viewfinder, Clip View functions, Retro Start Cache (no more missed shots!), etc., etc.

As I said, very impressive. And I guess sticking with the 1/3" chips looks after their existing ProHD client base who might have already made an investment in 1/3" glass.

The main thing I'm interested in from Tim's testing today is the low light performance and resolution at 1080p - both specifically compared to that of the 1/2" chips of the EX1/EX3.

If the JVC engineers have done a good enough job with the LoLux and spatial offset technologies to place these two points "somewhat in the same ballpark" as the EX3, I would definitely favour the HM700. (I love that new, easy workflow in FCP!)

Which is why I'd also like to see Phil Bloom put an HM700 through its paces (as Phil is very experienced with both ProHD and EX1/EX3).

Wow. Sorry JVC, but it looks like someone dropped the ball on this one. ONLY native FCP recording without an extra $1500? Would it have really killed you to have added another format, such as MXF? Wouldn't that have opened up the horizons a little instead of limiting them?

What I really don't understand is why the smaller camera has this option, but the larger one does not?

I don't use a mac and I don't buy products specifically designed for macs. Looks like I'm going to have to see about buying a separate digital recorder since this purchase has been taken off the table. Maybe I'd think about it if they realize their mistake and add additional recording options, although I don't know how that fits in with their licencing deals.

It's a beautiful camera and I love the idea of it, although it doesn't fit into my work flow at all and I believe I am speaking for a lot of other people who have similar work flows that I do.

From JVC Press Release:

"By attaching the optional KA-MR100 dockable media recorder, it is possible to record Sony XDCAM EX compatible .MP4 files onto high-speed SxS memory cards, while at the same time recording the same .MP4 files to inexpensive SDHC cards. Having two copies instantaneously available provides more versatility in the field with the assurance of always having a back-up. "

I'm confused. Maybe you don't need the SXS to record XDCAM EX 35mbit. Hopefully we'll get more clarification from JVC or Tim and Chris Hurd,

Interesting. Avid does import .MOV files...but, it would be nice to have the option of shooting in a native editing format. Someone needs to work on some software that will remove the quicktime wrapper w/ an alternate native wrapper. "Unclipwrap"?

Can't wait to see footage from this camera. I'm very excited.

You act like PC's can't use .mov files. They can and do so quite easily. In fact, if the camera is using prores, you should be able to drop that into any NLE that is quicktime aware.

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I am SO excited about this news, both the 100 & 700. I sincerely expect to own 2 - 700's and 1 or 2 100's by the end of the fiscal year. I've kludged through more than 6 months of my 200's not playing nice with FCP without ProRes and I'm THRILLED to have a solid state solution WITH HD-SDI that finally plays nice with FCP. Oh, and 20% wider stock lens! Maybe I'm drinking the Kool-Aid but I drank Sony's for years so...

There's a few other interesting statements on the site
 

quote:
"Drawing from its experience in developing rack mount encoders used by major television stations, JVC developed a proprietary codec capable of providing highly efficient compression up to 35 megabits per second, a bitrate that can support full 1920 x 1080 sampling. This results in recorded images of exceptional quality."

So is this their codec or Sony's??

and for current ProHd owners, even though with peaking turned up the evf works fine, but can we bolt the new evf onto our existing cameras? More is always better agreed! And the current evf is a known weakenss when it comes to durability, so if one breaks, can one replace it with the new evf instead?


and quote:
"New high resolution LCOS viewfinder
The GY-HM700 is equipped with a new, rugged high resolution viewfinder based on a new .45-inch 1.22 million pixel Liquid Crystal on Silicon (LCOS) panel (852 x 480 x 3). This new all-digital viewfinder displays images with more than 5 times the resolution of typical color viewfinders. Its sturdy reinforced die-cast aluminum chassis and LED light source ensure years of trouble-free operation. A serial digital interface means there's no quality loss, even with razor sharp graphic overlays"

Is there anything native to FCP besides ProRes?

Here is what I am thinking. I am thinking that JVC has "developed" a 35 MBPS ProRes. This might seem crazy at first, but it's uncanny how ProRes and Avid's DNxHD codec tend to mirror each other for bitrates. Avid has a 36 Mpbs proxy size. Would it be a tough stretch to think that maybe JVC has licensed the ProRes code and come in with a 35/36 Mpbs ProRes to offer native FCP recording? And then add SxS Long-GOP recording at extra cost to support the PC side?

Honestly, if the FCP native codec IS ProRes, then nothing further need be done for PCs I don't think. PC's can already read ProRes thanks to Apple opening up the decode portion of the codec. I wonder if this little project was a catalyst for that happening.

Proprietary in that it'll go directly to an SDHC card. XDCAM is Sony's codec, but only JVC writes it to SDHC (without an Express Card adapter).

Chris, just to confirm. You are saying the HM700 can save EITHER .mov OR JVC's XDCAM variant to SDHD, WITHOUT the SxS recorder?

So, I wouldn't need to buy the SxS add-on if I want to record XDCAM to SDHD?

JVC Professional Color Brochures page


Link to full brochure above. .

The brochure is worded in a very confusing fashion. I think it depends on your definition of native file format. But note: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/59.94i (.mov only),So it appears that some of the resolutions can only be recorded in .mov anyway.

So, that just means a slower import/transcode in Avid vs. native QT FCP.

Native file recording—world's fastest shoot-to-edit workflow.
! Native Final Cut Pro format
Edit immediately without conversion or transcoding
! .MP4 file format
Available with optional SxS Media Recorder (This is the part that is confusing)

Are they saying that native .mp4 is only available with sxs or that the option of sxs is available in addition to sdhc and both can record in native .mp4???

Is there a utility that rewraps .mov to .mxf??


Recording media 2x SDHC memory card Class 6
Video recording Video codec: MPEG2 Long GOP
File Format: Quick time format for Final Cut Pro/ISO .MP4 media file format (w/KA-MR100)
Recording mode NTSC setting: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/59.94i (.mov only), 29.97p, 23.98p,
1440 x 1080/59.94i, 1280 x 720/59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98p
SP mode: 1440 x 1080/59.94i, 1280 x 720/59.94p, 29.97p, 23.98p
PAL setting: HQ mode:1920 x 1080/50i (.mov only), 25p
1440 x 1080/50i, 1280 x 720/50p, 25p
SP mode: 1440 x 1080/50i, 1280 x 720/50p, 25p
Audio recording LPCM 2ch, 48kHz, 16-bit.

Also, I noticed that over and undercranking is available to sdhc in 720p. Cool.

Yes, same as the Sony. Good deal.

I think the hype is reaching maximum altitude. But as the cloud settles down it's going to be a minor improvement over already existing technology. It would have to be an earth shattering difference in picture quality to make me sell (with loss) my pro-hd camera and buy this one. I think Red Scarlet 35 price looks way more appealing in the price range.

Patiently waiting for Tim and Chris to give us the lowdown on the camera!! Very eager to know what she can do!

Why then doesn't JVC just use .mov file format only? I know PC's can use .mov files on import, however, aren't we going to have to render to watch? What camera uses prores to shoot? I thought this was a FCP codec that trancodes to this format.

I am just trying to find out whether my PPro CS3/PC setup will work with these files natively. I do not want to have to render if the files can't be used natively. As far as I can see these are the HD file formats I am able to use in Premiere natively: HDV(m2t), DVCPRO HD(mxf), XDCAM HD(mxf), XDCAM EX(mp4). If indeed the JVC cams can shoot .mp4 files to SDHC I am all set. However, if it uses a format Premiere doesn't support natively, this is unacceptable.

Also, what is the extension going to be if we shoot in 25mb or 19mb mode? Is it still .mp4 or something else? I used to own a JVC GZ7 full hd camera that had a 1920x1080 mode in mpeg2. Unfortunately, the files were stored in a .tod format that Premiere did not recognize and had to be converted to .mpg before import. This was annoying and I am hoping this isn't the case with these new cams.

Continuous Clip Mode
 

Continuous Clip Mode- YES!

It can basically shoot one giant clip with cuts included. THANK YOU JVC!

I hate having 1000 clips per project. Hate it, hate it, hate it.

Also- REALLY looking forward to seeing 720p60 at 35Mbps.

Steven, this really belongs in it's own thread. It's been discussed before, but I too have struggled with this. It's mpg2 artifacts that turn up when settings aren't optimized. Mpg2 itself tends to throw out information too soon in these areas, and it gets even uglier if you are then recompressing for dvd.

To get back on point, this is one reason to get very excited about the move to 35mps in the new generation cams. Seat of the pants tells me we won't be facing the bit starvation experienced at 720 60p with the 200 series, and 1080 30p will also be handled with aplomb.

The proof of the pudding will of course be in real life, and I hope to have the chance in the near future. Let me know if there are any specific things you'd like checked if/when I have this brief pre-release opportunity.

The "trade-in" was wild fantasy speculation, without any basis. Please let it die a natural death.

The "Brain" only for the RED Scarlet 35 (smaller 35) is $7000. I don't think the this will be in the same price range as the new JVC camera once a lense, viewfinder, interface, recording device, etc. etc. etc. are added on. Also, not sure ergonmomics are going to be optimum for the kind of uses the new JVC camera is designed for.

Besides that, the specs on the new JVC cameras are so spectacular, I'm not sure image quality will be an issue as to whether one should own these cameras or not. More and more street cred and image are more important than substance, so it may be top drawer to shoot without even recording.

Yes PC's can use QuickTime - HOWEVER: Those of us who use Avid know quite well that it cannot import timecode from quicktime files. I'd rather have something that is compatible and it sounds like a lot of people would also.

The fact that no one from JVC has chimed in yet shows me that it looks like our assumptions are right: if you want to record anything with the Sony codec, you have to buy the Sony hardware. That doesn't do me any good and at that point I'd rather buy the Sony EX Camera, it looks cheaper at that point, plus you can use the SD workaround and shoot just as cheaply.

I beg to differ. The red Scarlet 35 has the stratosphere dominated with hype. The JVC is a very straight ahead and logical evolution of existing technology. We are still dealing with the realities of extreme compression of higher frame rate progressive HD footage here, and the moderate increase paired with compatibility to existing economy flash cards is a practical niche for working professionals.

Jack, I think that scarlet is perhaps the ultimate tool for "shooting without recording" in this price range!