Tutorial DVD or Blu-Ray?
 

We are currently in production on Volume II of "The Complete Guide to ProHD" featuring the HM100 & HM700 cameras. The last time we produced NTSC region-free DVDs which were universally playable around the world. We had prepared PAL versions but the demand was so low we couldn't justify a minimum replication order of 1000 units.
When we demonstrated features that affected HD details we would do a 1:1 pixel blowup to demonstrate the effects, which I think was as effective as having it in HD.
I only received a few requests last time for Blu-Ray, but we are actually considering it this time as the primary format. A little market research is required before we commit to the higher replication costs.

I've also included some web-based options in the poll above. We of course will be releasing more free content but there's no way we can do that with the almost 4 hours of material that was included on the DVD.

If you're on the fence you can choose more than one option in the poll.

I would need a standard DVD as I don't have a way to play Blu-Ray disks.

Also, standard DVDs could be played in virtually any computer, laptap, or set top player, making the DVD more valuable as a reference, not just a Blu-Ray viewing experience.

I tend to agree with you Jack. The information itself is more important than seeing in HD. I would still like to get a grasp on how many people shooting HD have actually upgraded to Blu-Ray and an HDTV. A trip to my local Best-Buy would suggest "everyone" has but I don't think that is the reality.

I read an article a few months ago that at least one duplicating service was _planning_ on stamping dual-format discs which were Blu-Ray on one side, and could be flipped for the same content in DVD format.

I have an HDTV but haven't settled on a Blu-Ray player yet as that tech is still on a rapidly-declining price curve and the feature set is still expanding. (Plus, I have no burner, so I'm not compelled to get a player in the living room until I get a burner.)

I suspect a number of fence-sitters are out there... personally, I'd be willing to pay $5 or $10 extra for a training course now, if it came with both DVD and Blu-Ray media.

It doesn't have to be the specialized dual-format disc, it could be two discs. With a niche market such as yours, there is little risk of people just giving away the 2nd disc. The big studios, of course, don't produce two discs in one package because people would be tempted to give away their unused copy... that's why one producer has come up with the flip-format idea... it's something you can't give away.

Ironically it was JVC who invented the hybrid DVD/Blu-Ray technology about 5 years ago but I don't think it was ever accepted by the standards organizations. Their technology allowed for both formats to exist on the same side of the disc. The double-sided idea is interesting. I'll start exploring that as well.

BTW I think the best cost vs functionality Blu-Ray player is the PS3. It also acts as a great media player that can be linked to the edit suite via Nullriver Medialink (or similar.)
The only thing it can't do (yet) is play native XDCAM EX MP4 or Quicktime wrapped files. wmv & m2t no problem.

I have a blu-ray and it is the bomb! There is a big difference (at least for me) in picture and sound quality. I must also state I am not a pixel peeper. Tim, you must make a judgment call as far as the expense of BD print vs DVD print.
I would like to see HM100 and 700 as separate DVD's, as I am not buying HM700.
However at the end I voted for web-based distribution. Particularly iTunes idea would be great, as I'd buy only the parts I want.

Don't bother with Blu-Ray, this year at least. Recordable Blu-Ray is still too expensive. All the home distribution HD work I do goes to DVD still. The only request I get for Blu-Ray is from an independent film distributor but the 95% of the screening rooms / theaters with HD projectors around this country don't have Blu-Ray so the distributor can't go that route yet.

I agree on what people are saying about blueray, still.. a 10$ difference is not much for the opportunity of dealing with all the techinical issues connected to our cameras. Many are about quality, detail, contrast, noise, etc... and having the ability to view a Blueray done by a professional DOP is a nice opportunity. I suggest that you edit and finalize in Blueray, do the 1000 copies (or more) in DVD but keep a Blueray master. I think here in this forum (professional users) can do with a home-made copy (Verbatim sells 25 Gb bluerays at 6 euros) without cover etc... Maybe that can be a compromise solution. I bet you are doing an HD master anyway.

An extra $10, or around 15 percent, for all non-US markets?

The extra $10 built into the International version is to offset the costs of transcribing, translating and subtitling in French, Spanish and possibly other languages. I'm not sure how important this is to users of a camera with menus in English? I would guess there is an advantage for comprehension to reading a translation (however poor) in your native language. We did it last time but it was a pain and delayed the final printing by weeks.
Also, I found a replicator who will do a smaller order (still 500 units) but the cost is still considerably higher. With all things considered and the feedback received so far PAL DVD probably won't be an option.

The more I crunch the numbers on the Blu-Ray the more it seems like a big headache with AACS licensing fees and a limited number of replication facilities.

I will still of course shoot and post everything in HD (like last time) but I may author in Adobe Encore this time to facilitate DVD and interactive Flash. I think we can do some sort of customer authenticator with Flash but the initial download would be very large.

Marcello... the one-off BD-R idea might be an option for the few people interested, but the price will probably have to exceed $99/unit, at least until recordable BD media comes down in price.

licensing fees
 

"The more I crunch the numbers on the Blu-Ray the more it seems like a big headache with AACS licensing fees and a limited number of replication facilities."

I was under the impression that to replicate Blue Ray was completely impractical for small producers as the licensing was made the cost was prohibitive.

Tim could you give me an idea of costings inc license fee as I might be mistaken.

regards
Ian Skurrie

I've just purchased a new 17" MacBook Pro and will shortly buy a HM100 and would love a dvd like you are talking about.

Interestingly, the new MacBook Pro doesn't have a Blueray player, and logic would suggest that many(?) HM100 users will be using Apple products, or at least that is why I am considering buying my first ever JVC camera.

So Blueray doesn't make any sense for me as a international consumer. I edit on a computer so want to watch my training materials on my editing suite aka ripple training.

My 2 cents anyway!

I found Verbatim 25 Gb at around 5.50 € + VAT (NIERLE MEDIA Webshop | Rohlinge (CD-R, DVD-R, DVD+R etc.), Speicherkarten, CD-/DVD-Hüllen, USB-Zubehör uvm. if you buy the 25x box). I don't think there is that much difference with high quantities.

Quicktime on DVD data disks? QT has interactive features also.

Here is an overview of costs and licensing fees:
Blu-ray Blues: Navigating the troublesome realities of Blu-ray licensing and distribution.

Tim: any thought of DVD-Video with a ROM segment with at least some HD material on it, playable on a computer?

HD-DVD. Hehe....
The gyhd DVD was really nicely done but the podcast makes sense to me.
Fast, cheap & good - like clients always want it

I'm very keen on some training material for the HM100 - any idea when it will be ready in any format?

Please keep us updated!

Videos
 

Tim

I will vote for:
$39.95 Flash Web-based Subscription to all content
provided I can save the files to my computer for playback later
other wise
Std. DVD would be great.

I would also like the HM700 only.

Ron

I would recommend DVD for broad release supplemented with flash or downloadable HD supplemental content (digital download or subscription included in purchase price) on the web for times when it would be helpful to illustrate or demo in HD. So many people have yet to adopt a BD player, I think you would be missing some of your market segment if you only offered BD. However, when your content is HD training there is a valid argument for delivering in HD.

HD for HD, please ... I'll pay extra for sure!
 

How about VHS ... EVERYBODY has that ;) ...

If you own a semi-pro/pro HD 1080 camcorder, you should really have a 1080 HDTV or a computer monitor that would be capable of 1080, possibly even with a Blu-ray compatible HDMI input, as many 24"-plus monitors are starting to have.

I would like my gear, software, skills, thought process, and capabilities to be AHEAD of the curve, since time will always catch things up, often very quickly. Purposely doing 480 SD for a pair of really sweet, advanced, 1080P HD cameras sounds just plain sad.

BUT, I totally understand the whole financial/legal/hassle factor or doing what is new and top-notch ... So I would gladly pay 20% more for Blu-ray, and I will gladly PayPal you $20 on top of that if numerous video examples are truly well done and high-quality -- When is this coming out?
I want to be able to really see what the different settings do, as demonstrated by an experience pro, not just see some highly-compromised/compressed version of that.

... Oh, and an iPhone/Touch-optimized version would be great, too. I'd happily pay for it if it was useful and informative beyond the initial time through.

Rather than having disks pressed, why not offer downloadable image files for both Blu-Ray and DVD versions?

I would think that almost anyone who would be interested in the material is capable of burning a DVD easily, and some would be capable of burning a Blu-Ray disk.

Robert-That is a very interesting proposal. Avoid all the hassle of pressing it at all and download ISO files for client side burning. Kudos on thinking out of the box! How would you keep it from getting pirated? Maybe a secure download with product key system? Very interesting idea...

Yes! Secure download sounds great. Sep files for the two different camera models.

Cheers.

Delivering ISO image files over the internet, rather than physical disks, would also get rid of physical replication issues that make offering a PAL version cost prohibitive.

The only problem is that the bandwidth and storage required would be impractical for an iso image (the DVD will be 9GB large) so I'm pretty sure the servers here at DV Info wouldn't be able to handle the demand. I think downloadable modules in mp4 will work, but we just need to implement the proper infrastructure for it... probably something like http://www.macprovideo.com/tutorials , just cheaper.
Yes and no. If there is enough demand for PAL then replication isn't a problem. The whole thing is shot in HD 24p so it is really just a matter of downconverting to a different format and speeding to 25p. It's just a supply and demand issue really. If I had an equal number of committed sales for PAL then I could have them replicated for the same price as NTSC. I think the demand was low last time because we released the NTSC version first as a region-free disc, which played just fine in PAL DVD players around the world.
The real question is whether Blu-Ray is feasible (with added replication costs for the format and the licensing of AACS)

1and1 offers a hosting package, for $20/mo, with 300GB of storage space and 3000GB of monthly transfer volume (bandwidth).

With 300GB of storage, you could store both NTSC and PAL DVD9 versions, along with NTSC and PAL dual-layer Blu-Ray versions, and not even use half the allotted storage - heck, use 5GB for an out-takes bonus disk, just for giggles!

3000GB of bandwidth translates to transferring 300+ DVD9 ISO files. I doubt they'd have a problem with their servers handling the traffic. (I'd be sure to find out what they charge for exceeding 3000GB in a month. Perhaps a customized package would make sense.)

The hosting packages also give you some tools for the site, for handling the transactions. Starts looking dang cheap, for distribution, when you look close at the numbers! That $20/mo package, fully utilized (300 DVD9 ISO file transfers), would translate to less than 7 cents per disk. Even if you only sold 10 disks a month, at a cost of $20, that's a whopping 2 bucks a disk.

Something like that has just got to be a far less costly way to deliver DVD content, than having disks physically pressed (and mailing them, not to mention packaging and the labor for physical handling), and you do have about as ideal a target market as you could wish for, in your wildest dreams, to distribute DVD content virtually - far more capable of burning their own DVDs than the general public!

Going the virtual distribution route, it might make sense to make it a 2 volume DVD5 set, instead of a single DVD9, though.

Beware bargain hosts bearing buckets of bandwidth for very few bucks.

Like health insurance companies, some cheap hosts find innovative ways to drop you should you come anywhere close to using the level of service you believe you are paying for over any extended length of time. (ducking)

However, check out Amazon's EC2 and related services. You pay only for the computing, storage, and bandwidth resources you actually use, and it is scalable. I investigated this for a client once, but we went with a different solution... but for your application, finding a turnkey host which is built on top of EC2 might be the reliable and economical way to go.

Amazon Elastic Compute Cloud (Amazon EC2)

1 and 1 is pretty well established. They've been around for years, and a lot of folks here use them (including me as of about a year ago - switched from a company that was good at first, but went straight downhill pretty quickly). There are outfits that advertise even lower costs.

Even going with a hosting service that charged 5 times more for storage and bandwidth, cost of distribution would still probably be lower than replicating, packaging, shipping, etc. physical disks.

When will something be ready to buy???!!!! ;-) ;-)

I'm off around Africa in 2 months with my HM100 so keen to get up and running from a standing start.....

Any vague estimates?

We will have some exciting announcements coming soon with the first product available sometime in July. Keep checking in.

interesting that the biggest group is for downloadable sections.. (IN HD PLEASE!... 720 is is just fine)

I personally think by the time Blu-Ray becomes as cheap as DVD's are, broadband will be so much faster in the suburbs that everyone will download from itunes, cable, wireless or Dish/DirecTV anyway. iTunes should have a 1080p codec by then anayway...

But for DVD's I would really like to see at least some footage in HD quicktime/avi xdcam or what ever makes sense for PC/Mac users. But otherwise DVD would be fine.

Having received my HM700 this week, I'm looking forward to getting the tutorial, in whatever format it ends up being. Hopefully it won't be too much longer. :-)

Have Fun,
Jim

The official announcement is just around the corner!
We've put a lot of thought into distribution but are still exploring an online model. This thread has been very helpful in that respect. The first disc for the HM100 has over 2.5 hours of content and the HM700 disc will have close to 4 hours, so that is a lot to stream online. The two products are unique in almost every way (they really only share the format and "ProHD" moniker) so we had to split them up into separate DVDs, but there will be HM100/700 bundles offered.

Either way free downloadable content will be available very soon.


Now let me add another question: HOW MUCH WOULD YOU IDEALLY PAY FOR A HM100 TUTORIAL DVD TARGETED TOWARDS BEGINNERS, DOCUMENTARIANS, AND WEDDING/EVENT VIDEOGRAPHERS?

Depends on your perceived market. Despite your $59.95 poll suggestion, pros/semi-pros might consider $99 a justifiable business expense, although that higher price might scare off beginners/hobbyists. The HM100 at its price point has a bigger potential market of newbies than, say, the EX-3. That said, I'd stick with the pros/semi-pros, who will always pay for good information.

Re camera functions only, I'd also be interested in a printed crib sheet for the bag, along the lines of the Vortex EX-1/3 field guides. But I guess you already have your hands full!

Tim, as far a s the price, I would suggest this approach: HM100 is a potential gold mine for JVC, particularly if they fix a few annoying control issues. I would suggest contacting B&H and larger outfits and bundle the tutorial DVD with the cameras.

"HOW MUCH WOULD YOU IDEALLY PAY FOR A HM100 TUTORIAL DVD TARGETED TOWARDS BEGINNERS, DOCUMENTARIANS, AND WEDDING/EVENT VIDEOGRAPHERS? "

It depends on how good it is, and how confident I am that it will address my areas of interest beyond turning it on and loading a card!!! ;-)

But I am in desperate need of something like this. A complete beginners guide and then an advanced dvd if that is justified would be good.

I'd +like+ to pay 30 bucks(!!! ;) but would pay up to 80 bucks or so depending on my confidence levels based on the previews. Please try to keep the postage costs down as much as possible for international customers (using the post office rather than courier companies would be a good start).

Like many HM100 owners (present and future) I suspect, the camera will be used for various types of outdoor shooting (I will use it for travel related films and documentaries in places like Africa) so I'd like some focus on the issues surrounding that (like your desert tests etc ;).

Another thought - I think many people using the HM100 will not be pro's - I stumble along trying to make socially aware travel films 100% with my own money, and there are many artists and human rights activists (etc etc) who will use the Hm100 - so we won't all be able to write off the cost as an expense from the hundreds we charge every day etc ;-)

Can't wait!

That's exactly the answer I wanted to hear! Would you doubt the quality of the tutorials if the DVD was $30 USD (or less) or would the DV Info Net branding suggest a quality product/good value?

The "Tim Dashwood" branding will signify a quality product. The DvInfo.Net branding adds industry legitimacy.

A $30 price does not seem suspicious considering the HM100 camera has a fixed lens and fewer options than the HM700 and there is likely less to cover in the DVD. (Also, it would seem for the HM100 there is less to cover than than there was for the HD series.)

And odd as it may sound, the fact that the HM100 is a small camera will create the idea in many people's minds that the cost of the DVD should be relatively small.

People have learned that price does not denote quality in instructional DVDs.

For this camera, I think $30 is about the break point between buying and not buying for many users of the HM100.