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Old October 10th, 2002, 02:18 PM   #1
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Canon/Sony Problem

Forum people have been helpful in advising that tapes recorded on Canon will likely have problems playing back without errors on Sony (issue is head misalignments I guess). However, I may not have been specific enough in asking question. Does this happen in both SP and LP??? Reason for asking is my camera store contact says he has seen problem when tapes are recorded in LP mode, but to date he has not seen problem when tapes are recorded in SP mode-- he teaches a course and often switches tapes from Canon to Sony. Not to say problem won't also occur in SP mode, just that he hasn't yet seen it. What does forum experience suggest?? My reason is I would like to buy GL2 but my capture care tech service says Canons are a problem so I thought I could use my Sony which works fine with Pinnacle DV300 and playback Canon tapes on it.
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Old October 10th, 2002, 03:25 PM   #2
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I shoot with canon camcorders, and have put hundreds of tapes through my cameras. I edit on a sony walkman deck. The only problem I've had was in LP mode, once. (as I never shot in LP mode again).

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Old October 10th, 2002, 03:35 PM   #3
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I would say it is an uncommon problem that infrequently occurs. It is more common with LP speed tapes, as Barry points out. Some cameras seem more prone than others and contibutes to my theory that tape path alignment is at least part of the problem.

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Old October 10th, 2002, 07:46 PM   #4
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Canon/Sony Problem

Barry and Jeff, thanks for comments. Getting encouraging notes that this supposed problem is not such a big deal particular when recording/playing back in SP mode and not LP mode.
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Old October 11th, 2002, 05:16 PM   #5
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I have a DCR7 5 year old Sony and have been using it with my GL2 for editing. I've seen no issues yet.
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Old October 11th, 2002, 07:17 PM   #6
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Rich in NJ

Rich, thanks for input--this is a very helpful "community."
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Old October 12th, 2002, 06:08 AM   #7
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I have NOT encounterd problems interchanging tapes among GL1, XL1, VX2000, DHR-1000, and GV-D300, that were recorded at SP speed. I do not use LP speed.

Most interchange problems I've read about were LP speed, or a unit that has been dropped or otherwise used in ways that indicate a high likelihood of incurring some physical abuse in the process (likely tape path alignment change).
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Old July 6th, 2005, 11:47 PM   #8
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So this problem has plagued me for the past couple years and it just resurfaced. Ive never gotten a real answer.

My situation is I shoot mostly with my GL2, and often capture/export with a Sony DSR-20 deck. The deck reads the GL2 footage fine. But twice now the deck has been in the shop and I've attempted to use a low-end sony camera to capture my GL2 footage. (This Sony camera works fine with its own footage.) When I try to play the GL2 tape on the sony camera it is all jittery and the audio is messed up as well. Vice versa I recall in the past having exported to the Sony deck and I was unable to watch the tape on the GL2.

Originally I was told at school that the sony and the canon's footage were intentionally non-compatible, whatever that means. I just avoided using ones footage in the other camera.

Now after doing a little research I find this thread and am quite puzzled. Can anybody relate to what is happening? any theories?

To clarify all the footage was shot in SP mode.

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Old July 7th, 2005, 04:33 AM   #9
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I assume that Canon and Sony shoot for the same target, or standard, in manufacturing and aligning their heads and tape transports. But as a law of nature, for both there will be some degree of camera to camera variability. Most will work with most, but there is a finite probability that there will be particular pairs that are incompatible. That's the way I see it as an engineer and former manufacturing quality manager.

Another scenario, probably more likely, is that one of the cams has lost its alignment for one reason or another.

I shoot with a GL2 and always capture the footage from a Panasonic GS200. I promiscuously mix tape brands, often use LP mode, and routinely reuse tapes with no particular system. I get ocassional dropouts, but nothing serious enough to make me change my ways for unpaid work.
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Old July 7th, 2005, 11:02 AM   #10
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LP mode should be avoided, even if using Canon equipment exclusively.

I have had problems with a tape that was recorded in LP mode.

XL1s, other than the one than recorded the tape had problems.

Even the same XL1s that recorded it had problems playing it back.

I use Panasonic AY-DVM63MQ tapes exclusively.

Other tapes recorded in SP mode were successfully captured on other XL1s, GL1, etc. without problems. The problem was one cameraman accidently set the XL1s to LP mode. The problems were dropouts and bad sound.
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Old July 7th, 2005, 11:13 AM   #11
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I've played Sony tapes recorded in a GL2 on a Sony DSR-11 deck. SP works; LP doesn't. I'm going to guess that this holds true for all Sony DVCAM equipment, as it doesn't even have an LP option. (Likewise DVCAM-recorded tapes don't play in Canon equipment).

I use LP mode for recording long timelapse sequences where the extra 30 minutes is very beneficial (try fitting a sunset into only 60 minutes), and since I'm throwing out 80% of the frames in post anyway, it's pretty unlikely that I'll have a problem with dropouts.
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Old August 8th, 2005, 12:23 AM   #12
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I once heard that sony mini-dv tapes used a wider 'tape' (inside) and that they were incompatible with any other camera except similiar sony cams.

Is it true that a sony tape cant be played/recorded/captured on a non-sony cam/deck?
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Old August 8th, 2005, 10:37 PM   #13
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I just about spewed my coffee when I read that!
This forum is an excellent source of real information.
What the hell did people do before this forum was started?
I think I'm going to do a documentary on all the wive's tales.With a little spoof attitude.You know , people saying these things with a very serious look on their face.
Well its late,I'm getting goofy and I think this issue has been covered very well I couldnt help not interjecting with a little laughter.
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Old August 9th, 2005, 03:48 AM   #14
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My two bits of problem here.. And if anyone knows something about it, I'd very much appreciate letting me know.
Tried yesterday to capture in Avid Xpress Pro HD a Sony tape shot by a Canon (I think it was an XL1, but could be an XL2 as well -wasn't there to check, no reliable info from the people who gave me the tape), using my DVX100AE as a player. Tape was shot SP mode, 48 KHz.
Strange behaviour: All the right side of the frame was having digital dropouts from time to time, especially when changing scenes. And, stranger even, got no sound when playing in normal speed, but I heard the sound when ffwding or cueing, etc.
Ran a cleaning tape for a few seconds in my camera, thinking that it might be the change of lubricants (my DVX had never used anything different than Pana PQ or MQ tapes). Nope. Wasn't. Still can't figure out what's happening, but could it be some kind of evil incompatibility between Canon and Pana?
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Old August 9th, 2005, 10:37 AM   #15
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Hi Sotiris,

The good news is you're not dealing with an evil incompatibility between Canon and Panasonic or Sony--or any others. :)

The not-so-good news is that you are dealing with an old issue that isn't likely to go away. Fred's remarks pretty much tell the tale.

I've got two of the XL1s. Used Sony tapes in both, always SP. One camera has worked fine all these years while the other one did exactly as you just described. Thinking it was an incompatibility between my Canon cam and the Sony tapes I cleaned and switched the problem cam over to Fuji tapes last year. I still have the right side of the frame digital dropouts. This one just has a misalignment problem, I guess, because it's been back to Canon service for repair.

Tapes recorded on both my cams will not play back on a lower-end deck properly. Therefore, I just use my cameras for capture/playback.

That's my example. I'm hoping it helps in the guesswork. :)

Last edited by Lorinda Norton; August 9th, 2005 at 10:43 AM. Reason: never get it right the first time
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