Three tapes, Three dropouts!!!

Daniel Epstein · June 27th, 2010, 03:43 PM

Maybe the problem is also with your playback deck. Is it the same machine as your camera recorder? Are you playing the tape from the different camera on the first machine you had the problem with. Tension problems and worn parts can give you data errors which look like drop out but are actually not lack of information on the tape which is what dropout was in analog systems. Yes it could also be the tape but more often it is the machines gradually going out of spec, dirt , wear and tear if cleaning does not help.

Peter Manojlovic · June 27th, 2010, 10:47 PM

Long story short, i used another camera to playback my lost footage.
And yes, all the data started transferring....
I even went back to some previous tapes, and restored the lost frames.

Therefore, my camera has issues with playback. Usually in the first minute ..You would think that the recording would be affected also, but it's not the case so far.
Unfortunately, the Canon depot in Toronto has a turnaround of about 15-20 days...

But thanks to all....
It's definately my tape transport. It's as if the heads are slipping on the same spots all the time??

Daniel Epstein · June 28th, 2010, 10:19 AM

Glad to hear you have success even if it means your playback deck needs repair. It is always tricky to trouble shoot partially working systems.

Rob Morse · June 28th, 2010, 12:13 PM

I've used Panasonic tapes for many years and have had about 2 small drop outs in all that time. Lately, I don't see the tapes anymore because I have a Z5 with MRC-1 and I only use the tape for archive.

Mark Holland · July 1st, 2010, 12:46 PM

My opinion...repeat MY opinion...first, clean the heads, then switch to Sony tape and never go back to Panasonic tape! (also the 1 minute roll, etc mentioned above...)

Robin Lambert · July 2nd, 2010, 02:05 PM

What I was told (and it makes sense) is that tape is manufactured in 2m wide sheets on a continuous band. It is then sliced into strips. The centre of the sheet has the smoothest and most even coating and this is used for the HD, pro and high performance (and more expensive) tapes. As you move out to the edge the quality drops such that the outside few inches are sold off to the no-name firms. So, the people who claim that some no-name brands are "the same" as the expensive tapes are right but it doesn't have the same quality of coating.

These "strips" are incredibly long and are on rolls, used in a machine whereby the end of the tape is glued onto the casette spool (just the spool, the housing comes later) and the spool pulls the required amount off the large roll of tape. This means that the first few inches/feet are stretched as they pull the tape off the roll, until the roll gets up to speed and the strain lessens. At the required length the motor cuts out and the roll is braked, again causing strain on the tape.
This is why drop-out tends to occur at the beginning and end of a tape.

I hope this makes sense, it's bloody difficult to describe in writing!

Andrew Smith · July 2nd, 2010, 02:51 PM

Some of the HDV tapes (ie the Sony ones) are a genuinely new and improved formulation for the recording layer.

Andrew

John Peterson · July 6th, 2010, 05:25 AM

Ran into this with Panasonic PQ tapes and was told that neither Sony nor Panasonic recommend using 83 minute tapes. When I told them that I ran into this problem with 63 minute tapes as well they told me that I could exchange the 4 boxes I had if I sent them an e-mail to the attention of the person I spoke to at Panasonic professional. Three e-mails later I got no response.

Solved the problem by always recording in LP instead of SP.

John

Andrew Smith · July 6th, 2010, 06:03 AM

Ummm ... should it be "always recording in SP (short play) instead of LP (long play)" by any chance? :-)

Andrew

John Peterson · July 7th, 2010, 07:17 AM

No,

If they are both saying that the tape transports on most miniDV cameras (like my Sony VX2000) aren't designed to handle the physically longer (83 minute) tapes, then if you need to record more than 63 minutes and you cannot change tapes, record in LP.

John

Andrew Smith · July 7th, 2010, 03:19 PM

Not that I have looked, but I haven't found any professional cameras that support recording in LP mode. Instead we buy this really expensive tape deck that uses the larger media ... for up to 276 min.

Andrew

John Peterson · July 9th, 2010, 09:47 AM

VX2000, VX2100, PD150, etc all shoot in LP.

I also have a deck as you describe. It is a Sony WV-DR9. Handles miniDV and Large DV tapes.

John

June 27th, 2010, 10:47 PM	#17
Peter Manojlovic Major Player Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Hamilton Ontario Posts: 769	Resolved!!! Sort of.... Long story short, i used another camera to playback my lost footage. And yes, all the data started transferring.... I even went back to some previous tapes, and restored the lost frames. Therefore, my camera has issues with playback. Usually in the first minute ..You would think that the recording would be affected also, but it's not the case so far. Unfortunately, the Canon depot in Toronto has a turnaround of about 15-20 days... But thanks to all.... It's definately my tape transport. It's as if the heads are slipping on the same spots all the time??

July 1st, 2010, 12:46 PM	#20
Mark Holland Major Player Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Central North Carolina (Raleigh, Durham, & surrounding areas) Posts: 301	My opinion...repeat MY opinion...first, clean the heads, then switch to Sony tape and never go back to Panasonic tape! (also the 1 minute roll, etc mentioned above...) __________________ These are my own opinions, based on my own mistakes...

June 27th, 2010, 03:43 PM	#16
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Maybe the problem is also with your playback deck. Is it the same machine as your camera recorder? Are you playing the tape from the different camera on the first machine you had the problem with. Tension problems and worn parts can give you data errors which look like drop out but are actually not lack of information on the tape which is what dropout was in analog systems. Yes it could also be the tape but more often it is the machines gradually going out of spec, dirt , wear and tear if cleaning does not help.

June 28th, 2010, 10:19 AM	#18
Daniel Epstein Trustee Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New York, NY Posts: 1,267	Glad to hear you have success even if it means your playback deck needs repair. It is always tricky to trouble shoot partially working systems.

June 28th, 2010, 12:13 PM	#19
Rob Morse Major Player Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Charlotte, NC Posts: 427	I've used Panasonic tapes for many years and have had about 2 small drop outs in all that time. Lately, I don't see the tapes anymore because I have a Z5 with MRC-1 and I only use the tape for archive.

July 2nd, 2010, 02:05 PM	#21
Robin Lambert Regular Crew Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: London Posts: 70	What I was told (and it makes sense) is that tape is manufactured in 2m wide sheets on a continuous band. It is then sliced into strips. The centre of the sheet has the smoothest and most even coating and this is used for the HD, pro and high performance (and more expensive) tapes. As you move out to the edge the quality drops such that the outside few inches are sold off to the no-name firms. So, the people who claim that some no-name brands are "the same" as the expensive tapes are right but it doesn't have the same quality of coating. These "strips" are incredibly long and are on rolls, used in a machine whereby the end of the tape is glued onto the casette spool (just the spool, the housing comes later) and the spool pulls the required amount off the large roll of tape. This means that the first few inches/feet are stretched as they pull the tape off the roll, until the roll gets up to speed and the strain lessens. At the required length the motor cuts out and the roll is braked, again causing strain on the tape. This is why drop-out tends to occur at the beginning and end of a tape. I hope this makes sense, it's bloody difficult to describe in writing!

July 2nd, 2010, 02:51 PM	#22
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,018	Some of the HDV tapes (ie the Sony ones) are a genuinely new and improved formulation for the recording layer. Andrew

July 6th, 2010, 05:25 AM	#23
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	Ran into this with Panasonic PQ tapes and was told that neither Sony nor Panasonic recommend using 83 minute tapes. When I told them that I ran into this problem with 63 minute tapes as well they told me that I could exchange the 4 boxes I had if I sent them an e-mail to the attention of the person I spoke to at Panasonic professional. Three e-mails later I got no response. Solved the problem by always recording in LP instead of SP. John

July 6th, 2010, 06:03 AM	#24
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,018	Ummm ... should it be "always recording in SP (short play) instead of LP (long play)" by any chance? :-) Andrew

July 7th, 2010, 07:17 AM	#25
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	No, If they are both saying that the tape transports on most miniDV cameras (like my Sony VX2000) aren't designed to handle the physically longer (83 minute) tapes, then if you need to record more than 63 minutes and you cannot change tapes, record in LP. John

July 7th, 2010, 03:19 PM	#26
Andrew Smith Equal Opportunity Offender Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Brisbane, Australia Posts: 3,018	Not that I have looked, but I haven't found any professional cameras that support recording in LP mode. Instead we buy this really expensive tape deck that uses the larger media ... for up to 276 min. Andrew

July 9th, 2010, 09:47 AM	#27
John Peterson Major Player Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Monroe, NY Posts: 703	VX2000, VX2100, PD150, etc all shoot in LP. I also have a deck as you describe. It is a Sony WV-DR9. Handles miniDV and Large DV tapes. John