Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Don, what do you mean by the blue channel? Is it a color balance issue that's the problem?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Did some more testing. Using 720 120fps in the case camera shut down even with the door open (was on tripod in sun 80 degree day).

1080 30fps mode with IS on in car camera did fine. I wish Sony would add a flip feature to it like the GoPro. Attached is a photo of how I have to mount it in the car.

IS video test

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Patrick...do you think the Sony's bit rate can handle "bland" or "plain" backgrounds like streets and ocean waves but when it comes to finely detailed BGs like fallen leaves and ferns and sticks, that's when the pixelation begins? Too much detail equals blotchy???
That would not be good.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

If the video posted above (Sony Action Cam in-car test) is a fair representation of what the camera produces, and was not recompressed twice or something, the resolution is abysmal: everything is blotchy (watching at 720p).

Sony Action Cam HDR-AS15 in car test - YouTube

This is horrible.

However, I have seen videos from the same camera on Youtube that were much crisper.

Like this one (also 120fps, including riding on a motorcycle not just viewing them):

http://youtu.be/sAQDVAtAiik?hd=1

I wonder if it is the digital stabilization *and* the sensor cropping (120 versus 170) that is making the videos look particularly bad, while 108030p without stabilization at 170 (16Mbps) is relatively ok. Or maybe the poor-resolution video video was processed to death out of the camera.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Ok, what is the best way to test the Sony POV. I have 3 other POV's to compare to: ContourHD, GoProHD, SwannHD. Also could compare to my other cameras but he angle of view would not be close. Suggestions?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Duane,

Set up all three on the same mounted surface that you can move around.
Do fast action by the camera.
Camera on the fast action.
Timelaps
Move from dark to light and back to dark.
Put under water in tough conditions.

That should be a good start.

Then show on a split screen and individual screened shots.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

You also need to specify the settings: stabilization on or off? view is 170 or 120? resolution is 1080 or 720? slo mo or not?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Mark, down res'ing from 1080 to 720 does not cause video to be "blotchy". Resolution size is not the only factor in determining quality for upload to youtube. It doesn't matter if you export 1080 or 720 from a timeline, you are still processing it, you will see much more effect from bitrates and other compression settings. No matter how you export for youtube, you are going to be dealing with compression, making it 1080 isn't a cure all.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

"Mark, down res'ing from 1080 to 720 does not cause video to be "blotchy". Resolution size is not the only factor in determining quality for upload to youtube. It doesn't matter if you export 1080 or 720 from a timeline, you are still processing it, you will see much more effect from bitrates and other compression settings. No matter how you export for youtube, you are going to be dealing with compression, making it 1080 isn't a cure all."

You are confusing what I said to you (when you downrezzed from *in-camera* 1080 to 720 to upload) with what I said here, which is about the camera. In the camera (as you know) there is a fixed relationship between bitrate and resolution. 720 30 fps is 6Mbps; 1080 30fps is 16Mbps so increasing to 1080 also increases the bitrate in this case. In addition, the *digital* (not optical) stabilization reduces resolution *and* crops the sensor (170 to 120). I suspect (given my experience with the camera and what I know about the physics here) that both of these digital tricks are what is reducing resolution for given bitrate and pixels.

Also, people seem to recompress their videos from the camera at low bitrates before uploading - that in itself lowers resolution. That awful blotchy video I referred to could be caused by any of these factors; the in-camera 720 choice is not one I mentioned as it is required for slo-mo anyway and I cited a good-looking 720-origin slo-mo video.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

The blues are way over saturated Lynn. Looking at the light flares in my last ride through the woods, some are actually purple.

I haven't tried to fix it in post yet but it will be difficult to completely get rid of it.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

My mistake then but I would consider the source of the "Blotchyness" in that video to be more so related to the effects of the sun and the windshield.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Yes, I agree, the windshield also may be doing it.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

It was a bad time of day on that road with the sun where it was. When I have time I'll be doing more testing in better conditions.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Filming yourself driving down the road I wouldn't expect you to have much control over the sun. I just got my suction cup mount this weekend and will be driving around with it tomorrow. It sure seems pretty stoutly built. It might be more of a help to you cause I'll guarantee you drive faster than I do in my 2010 Tacoma but I'll top out 3rd gear for you tomorrow so it at least sounds cool for ya. :-)

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

My friend just posted this.


Sony Action Cam mounted on a Honda CBR600. The audio is from a Sony pcm-m10 digital recorder mounted on the handlebars. The POV cam audio wasn't too bad but there was buzzing I think from loose fit case. Put some felt in for future tests. The majority is 1080p 30fps with stabilizer on, near the end a car blocked the road so I spliced in unstabilized 720p 120fps 4x for normal speed w audio from the mounted Sony pcm-m10.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Please get back to us next year once you've done that!

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

This "Snake Run" video is also terrible - blotchy and low resolution as heck. This cannot be what the camera produces - I have seen much better. What is going on?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

LOL Lynne,

He asked

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Took the suction cup mount for a first run today. That thing is pretty stout and latches on pretty strong. I even mounted to the dinner table so it doesn't need a perfect;y smooth surface to have a strong mount. Got a little vibration with it mounted on the hood but it did real well in the cab on the inside of a window. I can see a lot of use out of this mount for me.

Sony HDR-AS15 Suction Cup Mount.mp4 - YouTube

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

LOL! Next week I'll try putting all 4 POV that I own on the front of my car and drive around. I am sure people will give me some strange looks.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

On my computer the videos looks good. I think many videos on YouTube do not represent the real quality of what a camera can do. Any idea on the best settings to export to to get the best quality?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Thanks Duane,

At least you will get some good looks on the clips.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Like Woody, I am enjoying my Action Cam. Here is a time lapse from Grand Central Terminal, one of the darkest and busiest major train stations in the world:

Sony HDR AS15 Action Cam Time Lapse Video: Grand Central Terminal! - YouTube

Select 1080p.

This was in the morning non rush hour.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I do that all the time Duane.

I have a lot of magnet mounts I've made and 6 GoPro HD2's and the one Sony plus a coupe of the old GP HD's.

Every now and then I'll put them all over the Bronco, go to the City and get video of the animals.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

"On my computer the videos looks good. I think many videos on YouTube do not represent the real quality of what a camera can do. Any idea on the best settings to export to to get the best quality?"

I worry whether what people are doing to their videos in editing combined with what Youtube does is giving a misleading picture of what the capability of the camera is.

The best thing to do is to upload the raw file straight from the camera to Youtube - then there is only one conversion by Youtube. You can trim and cut and merge clips in Sony Play Memories without any conversion. If you "export" you are recompressing the original, so that will degrade unless you use a very highbitrate.

One way to know better what is going on: does your "exported" video look better than the Youtube version? or is it already worse than the original?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I'll do a clip to test that.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Well I tried to compare but I can't send video to my phone. When I open play memories mobile I don't get an option to copy or upload or whatever. I tried the send function on the camera but nothing. I'm using a casio commando and sony says its good to go for compatibility but its a no go on sending to the phone and will only open to control it. No real biggie.

I did read on the Sony store page of the HDR-AS15, under the heading "No Wires, all good" that it stated " Just select the clips and the camera will transfer and compress web-optimized movies and photos without a single cable."

It says that it does compress the video files to "Optimize" for the web. I checked the metadata on the files I download from the camera via USB and I'm filming with the 1080 30p with steady cam on in the 120 degree setting and it says that I'm getting a bit rate of 16mbs. It's actually varying from 16.01mbs to about 16.4mbs depending on how much color information there is I guess. I don't have a cable yet for capturing HDMI out but will order one to see. It would be interesting to see that the camera does to the video before it sends it to the phone. My camera says it "Prep's" then "awaits" then is "Ready" then it "closes" but I don't get anything to the phone when using the send function.

So it sounds like there will still be some double compression regardless but I can't check to be sure or what the camera will output sending to a phone.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

and returned it after couple days, but ended up with Sony GW77, slightly larger, double the price, but the picture quality is beyond any expectations.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I got it to upload to the phone and the file I got was the same as what I download via USB. I shot with the steady shot 120 degree setting at 1080 30p and got a 16mbps MP4 file. I downloaded it from the phone as I could not email it to myself for some reason but sure that is a phone thing I have to figure out.

I had to hit the "Reset" function and then it uploaded to the phone just fine like it should have. I guess thats something I could understand and a normal type glitch. You just have to use the "Send" function and do not start play memories mobile till the camera says "Ready" then instead of the phone initiating camera control, it will access the camera data and give you the options to copy or upload.

I copied to the camera but will try upload next and see if it is the same. For now it is good to know I can copy to the phone and it will be the same as much of my work is in the middle of no where in the woods where I can charge things but should I run out of storage, I now have a back up.

Will test the upload feature and see.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Here is a quick test of copying to the phone and uploading to youtube via wifi from the phone as I can't email it to youtube.

Sony HDR-AS15 copy to Andriod and uploaded to youtube via phone - YouTube

Viewing at 720, it doesn't look any different than a lot of other footage I have seen and the difference between good 720 footage and 1080 when viewing full screen is minimal at least on the computer I'm using. I believe picture quality is coming down to the auto functions and how they are influenced by the environment your shooting in.

I've had noisy video, white balance issues and focus issues that seem to be complicated by noise in poor lighting. To me, I see the auto function have more effect on quality. Hopefully a firmware update could give us some control over one or two of those.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I bought the Sony Action Camera
Mounted it atop my helmet for single track mountin bike riding through the forest.
The stedy shot was nice, but does not work at 170 degrees in full HD, next step down it does.
The audio was muffled in the clear plastic case but not as bad as it could be.
I edited the shots in Premiere Elements 10
Burned it to an AVCHD DVD.
And I was very disappointed;
Lots of Artifacts popping on and off down the trail.
Looks fine if I don't travel down the trail.
What good is that?
I also connected the camera directly to the Sony TV via HDMI
To view the shots right from the camera.
The artifacts were there as well, though smaller.
I assume the problem is the massive amounts of detail in the trail shot.
Video chip cannot deal with it all.
Also the helmet mount is nice in some ways but inadequate in others.
Helmet mounts need to be movable in all planes.
I cannot mount a camera on the top, it will be hit by branches.
Let me know what you think.
Thanks

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV (hiking)
 

I just got back hiking Big Round Top trail @ Gettysburg. Shot a little and will try to post later on once I get time to get organized. Immediate impressions:
1) Walk only with steadyshot on, really could tell the difference... goes from marginal --> usable.
2) I need to stick a bubble level on it somehow.
3) Don't shoot into the sun, flares like crazy (to be expected).
4) Some pixelating observed in fast moving complicated video.
5) Fogs in the case in high humidity (I was onboard a schooner at the time), wished I had even Gopro defog sheets. However, the video is still usable, though not optimum.

I held it in my hand down by my waist, no case. I could not use the monitor, since my pathetic Motoblur 520 Android keeps losing the connection. (I think it's the phone, not the camera, as I get CPU 100% warnings on the phone.)

I will hold off on other comments until I get more time to look, I'm overall glad I purchased it as I got some shots I would not have otherwise have been able to obtain.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

These field tests are very informative as they echo my own concerns (not having bought the Action Cam yet). I anticipate using the camera with the headband mount too. I can only imagine it will be tilted or oriented at angles (unbeknownst to me) that will make me moan and groan when I look at it later. (Hard to imagine how to correct that without holding your head so stiff you'd end up with a neck ache while looking like a jerk.)
As for lens flare, would a home-made device on the top of the housing/camera suffice to block rays or would that become visible in the picture?
Very odd that 16Mbps can't handle fine detail in motion. Why would Sony choose that rate knowing it's not up to the task?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

While I'm very happy with the camera so far, it is obvious that there is room for some much needed improvement/advancement of the unit and accessories.

The color of the picture is very strong towards blue as it has been mentioned before. I'm starting to believe it could be a lens coating as I'm finding the worst white balance issues have been associated with tungsten light ranges and it pulls a nice blue sky like its polarized the majority of the time. Having something like that fixed in a lens coating will cause limitations where as having it in a filter would allow us to use it or not. I really don't see a filter system as being difficult to produce. It would just take a new front door with a threaded mount. Due to the underwater focus issues, we are in need of a new front door with a flat lens anyway, it could be incorporated in that.

Shooting outdoors produces a varying amount of white balance and exposure issues. I think it would be nice if we could lock white balance and gain on certain settings or allow auto rather than just have have the camera adjust as you pass through shadows and such, so we could actually set it for the dominate values of the environment. Something like that should be able to just be a firmware fix.

Like I said, I very happy with the camera so far and I'm having a lot of fun with it. The ability to frame up with the WiFi feature is the bomb and why I never really got into these types of cameras when I got the first gopro model.

I'm sure Sony isn't done yet and anything they do from this point is just frosting on the cake, so to speak. So I'm hopeful that things will just get better. So far its a very useful tool, just that there is a learning curve as to how you can use it to get footage you can use but any improvements will only expand that for sure.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I hope you're right about Sony responding to these issues. But what sort of evidence is there that they are really that concerned about a camera so "low" on their feeding chain? A $200 camera isn't going to be a big money-maker so why should they lose sleep over this? My fear is that this is as good as it's going to get. Unless someone knows of firmware issues that were "quickly responded to" in previous consumer-level cameras? And if and when they do respond, is it a behind-the-scenes fix or do they announce it?
This is where GoPro has an advantage as a privately owned business with some real faces and names at the top who have to live with their neighbors who probably own a Hero.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

There are already more accessories starting to show up such as the LCD module and rumors of new front doors for housing. The flip out LCD for monitoring video leads me to believe there are intentions for this camera to be somewhat capable in place of a full fledged consumer video camera (the touristy type).

Obviously Sony saw the market as sizable enough to be worth competing in. In order to do that though, they do have to "Compete". It looks like they intend to do so at the "Action Cam" platform and also expand beyond that leading towards a dual purpose. They really did hit a home run with the mic's and audio performance for a 200 dollar camera. They have nothing to do there for use of the camera as a camcorder but to pull that off, they will need to make some firmware adjustments.

GoPro has a strong foothold and has already had much consumer feedback of how they/we would use the camera. Sony is just now getting that information to work with. I really don't think the ability to make money in this category of camera is solely based on the unit itself but more so on the accessories. Widen the use of the product and sell packages, so even though its a 200 dollar camera, you are actually selling a 4-500 dollar kit that is taylored by each consumer when its all said and done. They seem to be headed in a very modular direction and from my experience in manufacturing I would feel pretty safe to bet lunch that the mark up on the accessories is significant.

It is a very handy unit. They have taken a lot out of all the BS a tourist needs to learn for vacation videos. It spits out MP4 ready for Youtube. A little more editing capability in Play Memories Home and the majority of people are happy, if they are not all ready. The ease of use is there, cost is there all they need is a indoor "Birthday" setting in the firmware, a flat lens door for under water and every grandma and parent will have to have one. Hopefully those of use that use it as a creative tool will benefit from what they need to do to compete in the market.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I hope you're right.
My concern is that those "grandma and parent" consumers won't care about any of this stuff (blue shift, pixelation). To make matters worse, Sony probably KNOWS they won't care. "So why should we care?" the Sony executives say with a smile at the board meeting.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I sure hope I'm not just day dreaming either. :-) But I really think quality of the picture the average guy ( or Grandma) get is going to be a part of the competition in this category and with what I've seen of white balance indoors, it warrants a firmware adjustment on that alone. I don't think Nana will be happy with the "Blue Shift", first her hair now this? ;-)

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

This has been a long and very informative discussion.
Anybody who's a user willing to take a stab at summing up the Action Cam at this point in time? Seems appropriate at this moment, especially considering a Hero 3 is looming on the horizon (supposedly smaller and lighter and better in low light)...

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Lynne, first, I doubt the GP3 is right around the corner. Maybe a year before it's in your hand. Second, it'll be buggy for a long time.

To sum up the Sony...it's got some problems. It fogs badly and way over saturates and sharpens the images.
The case and mounts need some redesign plus a few personal gripes I have.

The good about the Sony is it seems reliable and has much better lowlight images and is extremely handy to get into action.

IMO, the best bet right now is still the GoPro HD2
I may sell my Sony!