Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

That's a rather sobering assessment!
Of course, the grass will always greener on the other side of the fence (re: Hero 3). Nevertheless, the Hero will still be shackled with its clumsy "boxy" design and its audio will (likely) be awful. In those two areas the Sony shines.
Anybody else care to come to Sony's rescue?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

PM Me if you decide you want one Lynn.
I'm about ready to part with it.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I feel that the camera's output is very good (comparing to the other POV I have: Contour HD, GoPro HD, Swann HD) and the features are nice. But I do not like the case and the way it mounts. I dislike the GoPro case and mount, but at least with it you can have the camera flip the image. Also the Sony case allows for to much heat build up. I am hoping that more mount options become available for the Sony and that they add a flip feature.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

My friend did another video with the Sony on a motorcycle.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Duane,
I can hear that same "Rattling" from the vibration in the housing in your motorcycle video that I got in the boat. I went to Ben Franklin craft store and found some thin adhesive backed foam that is much like what Sony puts in the case but just a tad thinner. I cut strips about 1/4" wide and put one on each side towards the front and it took care of the noise and really improved things. The foam is cheap and about 2 bucks for a big sheet. I used the foam as it wouldn't absorb a bunch of extra moisture and add to the fogging issue in humid areas.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I'm not a likely candidate for a used Sony Action Cam, without the option (thanks to B&H) of returning it if I don't like it. Thanks, however!
To stir up the pot even more, ever hear of the Polaroid XS7 POV camera? For $69 you may be able to get a lot of what any of these more expensive cameras offer (limited to 720P). Geeesh! Now I've seen everything.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Funny, the one thing that is making a huge difference for me in "Usable" footage is the steady shot. That's something I never use on my main cameras, can't even remember the last time I did. But in the way I use this camera (on pole's and such) I don't know what I'd do without it. I really didn't notice how much difference it made till I had shot a good bit of footage with it.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Sony is making available reuseable anti-fog inserts for the waterproof case to prevent condensation. These may also reduce any rattling, as they are like pads:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/893292-REG/Sony_akaaf1_Anti_Fog_Inserts_For.html

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

The GoPro inserts would probably work just as well too. Also, don't forget some Fog-X wipes.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Works on the GoPro so something you could try on the Sony WP case is a 5mm hole with a 10mm Gortex patch from an old ski jacket etc on it. Rejects water but allows air to pass both ways.. This is for ON water activities like a kayak with splashing and short term dunking.

Would not do this underwater at pressure.

Yes I've done this successfully and it works, you can also buy ready made insert vents as detailed here on my blog post in 2009 Rambos Locker Outrigger Canoe Blog: Permanently Preventing Fogging of the GoPro Lens

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Despite all the excitement over at the Hero 3 site, I still haven't given up on Sony. (For one, I'm skeptical that the Hero 3's claim to 2x more sensitivity in low light is really going to amount to much, considering how bad the Hero 2 is. I mean, two times better than crap is still 1/2 crap! Also, as Woody points out, Sony's unique steadicam feature proves invaluable at times. All we've seen of the Hero 3 is footage taken by experts under the best of conditions and edited under the best of conditions. I'm not drinking the kool-aid yet.)

Question for anyone who's used the Sony headband arrangement...is it comfortable enough to actually wear all day long? Or would the weight of the camera and case end up giving you a headache or a cauliflower ear after a while?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

There are *two* headband options - one for the camera in the case and one for the camera without the case. For all-day use the latter would presumably be better, if you are not in the rain.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I was out filming waterfowl all day yesterday, so all I’ve done today is view and chop footage and I collected a lot with the HDR-AS15 yesterday. I think I’m at the point I can sum up my view of it.
Your mileage “Will” vary as just with anything else, how you use it will influence its value to you. Also like anything else, there is no “Free Lunch” and there are some issues. We’ve all seen the promo videos by both Sony and Go Pro but that is not what flows magically out of the camera and on to youtube.

First the white balance issue. The Sony is strong on the blue channel. I couldn’t tell you if it is a technical compromise or if it has something to do with a lens coating but it’s definitely strong. If you don’t have the software or practice color correction (CC), this could be a big issue to you. I CC in After Effects with Color Finesse 3. The majority of my work is outside, so I’m used to having to CC almost all footage anyway. Most leaves are reflective so I get color spill from that and usually have to dial down yellows or something of the like, so having to pull down the gain on the blue channel is no burden on me and no big deal. I’m sure you can get the same effect using a single color wheel in a “Fast CC” plug-in. However, if you are not into CC, you’re stuck with the bluish tint.

I’ve had some bad results with the white balance indoors under yellowish light sources. There is not much if anything that can be done with it, it’s unusable. I believe a simple firmware adjustment could solve this one but I have to be honest, I didn’t buy the camera for use indoors. It would be a nice addition to be able to use it in such a way though as the camera is very handy to just whip out at any time. I really don’t think it would be hard to implement a white balance menu that just had auto, daylight, cloudy, florescent and tungsten, that’s actually kind of old tech.

Next would have to be video “Noise”. I’m pulling a good bit of noise in most of the footage I get but this is similar to the white balance issue for me. It’s a pretty simple amount of noise and I have and use “Neat video” noise reduction software. The Neat video takes it right out without much effort at all. It’s a low amount of noise and really I don’t think most people would notice it, except in the low light footage. A “good bit” to me is any I can notice that goes beyond fixing with just an adjustment to contrast in post.

The heat and “Rattling” I’m going to lump together since they are both associated with the housing. I have not had the camera shut off from heat but I have had it get pretty hot. Filming in the housing for extended periods in temps over 70 degrees builds heat pretty fast. I have been using the DIY PVC open mount a lot, more so for the clearness of having nothing in front of the lens and the clear audio for syncing to but it has pretty much eliminated any heat issue I have had and the rattling.

The rattling isn’t a huge issue but if you are dependent on the audio from the camera for your clip, you are going to get some if you have any vibration to contend with. I first used some thin adhesive backed foam from a craft store but it actually made the fit to tight. It worked well but made it difficult to get the camera out of the housing when it was on a mount, like the suction cup mount. I have gone to using the soft side of Velcro. You need to be careful and only use small pieces, like ¼” by ¼” squares. One on each side in the front and back and that will solve the rattling issue and not be too tight, making it difficult to get the camera out.

Lastly, the dreaded “Fogging” or moisture issue. The last couple of days here in NC have been at 100% humidity in the mornings. Being a guy that films outside 99% of the time, I’m in the practice to getting out early and having a cup of coffee or something while I let my equipment acclimate to the environment. But using the open mount has pretty much solved the fogging issue for me unless I need the water proof housing. I’ve found that I use the open mount more so than I do the water proof one, so this issue has become much less for me as I have another way to hold the camera and just about anything I would use the WP housing for, I have time to acclimate.

In my personal opinion, I believe the biggest drawback or issue in regards to the Sony cam is simply associated with its newness. They are just now getting the initial customer feedback on it. Slowly we are seeing things appear like the moisture control sheets and the rumors/projections of LCD screens, skeleton housings, flat water lenses and such. I don’t think it’s “Wishful” thinking at this point to believe Sony will come to the table with more that supports their POV Sport cam and anything we get is just going to sweeten the deal.

The Sony cam has some significant positives. Not that I would count on it for a production but the audio for a 200 dollar camera is pretty mind blowing, dang nice for syncing and good in a pinch. The steady shot is without a doubt the #1 selling feature of this camera. All the picture quality in the world isn’t worth anything if the stabilization isn’t manageable. There are basically three types of users for these POV sport cam’s. The redneck “Hold my beer and film this with my sport cam” type but they don’t care about any of these issues. You have the anal retentive power user with all the software and such to handle these issues. But for them these issues are minor and easy to deal with to get surprisingly great video from the Sony. Then you have those in between, those that are trying to pull a finished product out of the camera or very close to it. If you fall into the latter, you’re really the only one that has to weigh the issues with how you are going to use the camera and how others use it doesn’t really provide that much info on it. The video I’ve been putting up on youtube haven’t had much if any adjustment at all but I’m going to start using the camera in other work where it will be CC’d and de-noised, along with some other editing and just because I can do that shouldn’t have bearing on some ones purchase if they are not going to be doing that as well. I find the company videos a double edged sword in that regard. I know marketing is important but it seems somewhat unethical at times.

I’ve had some discussions with people over the introduction of the Go Pro3’s, some even longer winded than this post. The Sony HDR-AS15 comes in at a price point to compete with the Silver edition and the AS10 the White edition, they also fall in line with those spec wise as well. Obviously I don’t have a GoPro3 to compare with but I do know what I will get out of the Sony and the deciding factor here for me is going to come down to the steadyshot feature of the Sony.

I think those trying to compare the Black edition against the AS15 are being somewhat disingenuous. Some of the spec’s actually don’t even come into play. You can’t sell me on 15fps regardless if its 720 or 4K resolution. 2K, I can use 2K 30p if it’s not shaky if it is, it’s not worth more than stable 1920 x 1080. To add to that resolution is not the end all and is likely the last thing I am going to look at for quality of an internet video or DVD. People are trying to play spec vs. spec and that doesn’t really pan out in the real world of using the product. Levels of noise or white balance between the two would really only matter to those trying to pull a finished product out of the camera.

All in all, I’m happy with the Sony and staying with it. There is a lot of brand loyalty going on with Sony vs. GoPro but I’m staying outside of that. To me it comes down to usable footage. The issues with the HDR-AS15 have been easy for me to deal with and overcome and I’m sure things will only get better down the road. If GoPro had steadyshot, I’d have a Black edition on pre-order but they don’t so that’s my rational for not jumping on that band wagon.

That’s my two pennies on the subject

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Thanks for the detailed report, Woody. Regarding the steadyshot, given that you're a software guy, do you think using the GoPro Hero 3 with some stabilization program (like what imovie or FCP offers) would be equivalent to Sony's capabilities?

Mark, am I right in thinking that, in order to wear the camera around one's head, you have to buy (1) the headband strap itself and (2) a plastic case (either waterproof or open-air)...both adding up to $55 or more?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Lynne,

I use Mocha for tracking as it's planer and not pixel based tracking and gives me the best results. However, how well it does is based on the footage. The more it shakes, the worse it is and the more involved it is to stabilize. Not to mention, with most software you have to scale up after stabilizing if you are not cropping to a lower resolution. Its quite a bit more involved than color correction or de-noising.

Given the nature of the use of the POV sport cameras, I don't think just the software makes the difference as I've had footage shot with steady shot that I still had to run through Mocha. Without steady shot, that footage would not be usable.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Lynne: "Mark, am I right in thinking that, in order to wear the camera around one's head, you have to buy (1) the headband strap itself and (2) a plastic case (either waterproof or open-air)...both adding up to $55 or more?"

I don't understand the question, so I will just say what is true:

1. The camera comes with a waterproof case, which you can use or not use. You do not have to buy a case. There is no other case option right now (you can buy another (the same) waterproof case).

2. There are two headband options:

A. A headband combined with a holder for the camera without the waterproof case. This is the smaller, lighter alternative. $24.99.
B. A headband that allows you to use the camera with the waterproof case on it. This option also allows you to use any band, not just the one it comes with (detachable). $29.99.

So if you bought both, it is $55, but you do not need to buy both. So, no, you do not have to spend $55 to wear the Action Cam around one's head - you can spend either $30 or $25.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Woody has given an excellent review. It is inevitable that folks will compare with the new GoPro 3. There are two advantages the Sony has:

1. The built-in stabilization, as Woody has mentioned.

2. A working, effectively real-time, remote viewing capability by wifi for Android and Apple. The Go Pro version has a lag of 3-4 seconds (and no Android yet), which is almost useless; the Sony is .5 seconds and hardly noticeable.

3. The Sony has those slo-mo modes.

I am also interested in resolving power -sharpness. The pixel specs - 1080, 2K, etc - tell us nothing about the number of lines of resolution the cameras are actually capable of. Both the Action Cam and the new Go Pro, from what I have seen, have significantly lower sharpness (resolving power) compared with even low-level regular camcorders, including ones that sell for less. I wonder if the Go Pro 3 has really improved in that dimension over the Sony, at say, 108030p?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

As always, Woody gave a pretty darn good summation.

Color Finesse works very well and is part of almost all my CC. I have found I can desaturate everything in Color GHears and then rebuild the colors the way I want.

Everything else can be worked around. If I sell my Sony at my price, I won't be ubhappy but if I don't, it's still a darn nice little camera.

I will but at least one GP3 Black at some point but GoPro always has buggy releases, so I'll wait.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Thanks for clearing up the confusion about the headband, Mark.
I'm wondering if a (white) sweatband would accomplish the same thing. Just cut two slits in the side (as they're double-layered) and slide the camera inside. Perhaps the white would help to keep the camera from overheating in direct sun.
I do wonder, however, if the Sony headbands allow for "aiming," pointing the camera in a downward or upward direction. Any thoughts on this?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

The headband I have does not allow it to be aimed up or down Lynn.

If I keep it, I'm going to buy another case, mount threaded inserts on both sides so it can be mounted on a headband or helmet with up/down adjustment, and camo it. Then I'm going to drill vent holes with removable plugs.

Sony Action Cam Road test
 

The Sony Action Cam, mounted by suction cup on the outside of a turbocharged sports car. Stabilization was turned on in 108030p mode. The Sony Action Cam was inside the waterproof case, closed front. Fall day, with some fall colors.

Then the same journey using a good-quality HD camcorder, mounted (loosely) inside the same car, using optical stabilization, active mode and 108060p.

The quality of the videos is not that different. The dynamic range and autoexposure of the camcorder is somewhat better. The sound of the Action Cam is surprisingly good, picking up the rumbling sound of the engine much more than wind noise, though a little rattling in the case is heard. The stabilization (a very bumpy road), did well too.

The Action Cam video is a lot sharper than some of the Youtube examples people have linked here. I edited the clip combining the Action Cam 1080p clip with the camcorder 108060p clip in Sony Vegas Pro, rendering to a 108030p MP4 file, uploaded straight to Youtube.


Please select 1080p.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

It's still easy to spot the Sony Footage Mark.

The sky is over saturated and there are magenta flares.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

If we are going to critique (as is wanted), let's get it correct:

The sky in this video is not "oversaturated" it is *overexposed* - the clouds are white blobs and the sky is too bright blue. This is the limited dynamic range compared to the camcorder.

This is not to say that the Action Cam does not produce somewhat oversaturated skies. These, however, look good when properly exposed, as here:



Also, when the sun is in the frame, you get flare; this is true for any camera. The extreme wide angle of the Action Cam, unprotected by any shade, makes this worse. Most photographers would never shoot in bright sun, using any lens, without a shade. I am not sure what to do, given the Action Cam, and all the POV's, have no add-on shades that I know of.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Good comparison Mark,

Yeah you can see the blue gain needs to be dialed back but that's an easy fix. I haven't figured out the sharpness yet, Its not constant. Sometimes I get very sharp looking video and sometimes not. I haven't narrowed down just what environmental influences effect it. I'm thinking it has something to do with contrast. Not to hard to deal with in post with a gaussian blur or film grain on an adjustment layer to tone it down depending on what you are doing with a project. But that level sharpness isn't always there even when conditions seem to be the same.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

The wide shots with lot's of details will be the less sharper, close ups/ mids the sharpest. The In camera stabiliser will also affect sharpness and obviously camera motion. The strong blue channel is common to Sony products, that's part of the Sony look.

I'm liking some of the lower light stuff from this cam, the nighttime In car users will appreciate this.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Is the sky really that color in your world Mark and you get PURPLE flares. That is not true of other cameras!
Videographers shoot with a shade and without, depending on if they want the flares while panning.

So like you said..."Let's get it correct!"

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I don't know if you're using GHears Woody, but if you are, a "Tone and Desaturate" layer works wonders with the blue and you're dead on that a film grain helps with the over sharpening.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

"Is the sky really that color in your world Mark and you get PURPLE flares. That is not true of other cameras!"

All Sony consumer camcorders get PURPLE flares when there is sun flare (!) - do you have a preference for flare color? green flare? yellow flare perhaps?:) There is the famous Sony "blue dot" (exists in the CX760 and the pro version HXRNX30U). And guess what; it goes away when there is a lens shade. And guess what again, Sony now provides a sun shade with its higher-end consumer camcorders and the Pro version. Guess why?

The point is in the car video the sky was overexposed - and that is the color you often get when there is sky overexposure - I can show you videos from Panasonic and Sony cameras that produce the same sky when there is overexposure. The Action Cam also has obvious CA (see it on tree edges exposed to the sky) - more purple, but that again has nothing to do with blue bias.

All of this has nothing to do with tint; and I am not arguing that there is not a blue bias to the Action Cam, so you can rest easy.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

It is unfortunate but all the Sony cameras in auto exposure over expose a little. I have SR11, XR500, CX700, NX5U and still have FX1 and they all over expose to my taste. In auto I run them all with AE shift backed off just a little. It is much easier to fix something that is just under exposed than to try and recover an over exposed shot. I expect this option is not available on the AS15. I currently have a ContourHD and am looking to get a more modern headcam for skiing. When announced I thought the AS15 would be great. Unfortunately no 1920x1080p60 or even 60i and I gather no sound with 1280x720P60 and limited mounting options sort of written it off for me especially with the Go Pro Hero3 Black edition. If Sony had 1920x1080P60 with image stabilizer and extra image controls that would be great. Maybe a future version.

For the price it may be OK But for serious video I do not think it comes up to the specs on the Contour+2 or the new Go Pro Hero 3. Both a little more expensive but with more image controls and mounting options.

Ron Evans

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Don, I haven't used GHears, going to try it out though, looks like a very useful tool for grading. I'm more of a correct by the numbers guy and then grade as a secondary treatment. It speeds me up when trying to match up cameras for color. I'm actually looking at making a preset now to just drop on the sony footage and speed things up. I just need to process a little more footage and dial in how far to bring down the blue gain on average. It would be adjustable but for most cases just drop and go on and render fast when its all done.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Turns out the "minus blue" preset in GHears works pretty good for an average. :-)

I think I'm understanding the sharpness as well now. The white balance influences the blue saturation which in turn enhances contrast. At least that sounds logical to me at this point. You just don't see how much blue is in there if you don't see sky or have it side by side, seeing a source and color corrected result frame for comparison.

It may be interesting what we can do with this thing when someone comes out with a housing front that has interchangeable lenses/filters.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

I see where Sony has now moved the release date of their LCD "camcorder cradle" to around Dec. 21., pushing it back another month.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Duane -- In the video done by your friend, I am amazed at the quality of the sound of the motorcycle engine and the almost complete absence of wind noise. I would appreciate any information you can provide relative to the following questions:

1. In the video, how did your friend get the sound of the motorcycle WITHOUT wind noise on the recording?
2. Was the internal mic dampened somehow?
3. Was the camera inside the case and how was the camera mounted (location, accessories used, etc)
4. Was an external mic used in lieu of the internal mic & what was the brand of the ext mic?

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

If you read the comments under the youtube video you will find most info back.

Re: Sneak Peek at Sony POV
 

Thank you Noa