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-   -   Attention serious documentary filmmakers! (https://www.dvinfo.net/forum/micro-pov-camera-systems/509432-attention-serious-documentary-filmmakers.html)

Lynne Whelden July 19th, 2012 07:10 AM

Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I would like to chat with someone who's made a serious, high production-value documentary using the Hero 2 as their "primary" camera. Not a music video like what GP has on their home page. A true documentary with natural sound, interviews, a compelling story line, and a length befitting broadcast values.
It seems everyone, pros and hobbyists alike, has a GoPro in their bag for the odd shot, the weird angle. But I've yet to find anyone who has made a full-length doc using the Hero (and a handheld audio recorder, probably, and maybe a Steadicam) by itself. There are no youtube videos other than the tiresome music video stuff. The GoPro customer service was of no help either. A google search brings up nobody.
Yes, the wide-angle is limiting but simply getting close to a subject overcomes that issue.
Is there anyone out there? Please put me in touch with them. Otherwise, is the world still awaiting the first documentary shot with a GoPro this far into their existence??? I'd like to be the first!

Simon Wood July 19th, 2012 07:34 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I think you have answered all your own questions in the post!

The very aspects of the GoPro that make it so useful for certain shots are the very same aspects that make it quite useless for most shots.

Terrible terrible low light performance.
It has no screen.
No manual controls.
No audio (worth mentioning).
Awkward to hold.
Awkward to control.
No zoom.
Fisheye lens causes distortion.
Jello and more jello.

Other than the actual novelty factor of making a documentary with a GoPro, I can't think of any 1 reason why anyone would want to use it as a primary camera.

It does not bring anything to the table. A cheap consumer handy cam would provide better results for all the shots where the GoPro wasn't mounted to something to get an unusual angle, or in a dangerous inaccessible place, out in the elements, attached to a bike etc, etc.

Now, I love the GoPro, and I use it all the time to complement the more professional cameras in my bag. But it really is a one-trick-pony camera that yields fantastic shots when you maximize its strengths, but makes pretty awful shots for most everything else.

There are some short 'documentaries' that make great use of the GoPro, but generally they are documentaries of extreme people doing extreme things. Thats the GoPros niche.

'Grinding the Crack' by Jeb Corliss uses multiple GoPros to document one such event. Is this a documentary? Yeah, sure. Why not. Its brilliant too.

You'll find many such documentaries on the web. But you won't find many with 'broadcast values'. Surely 'broadcast values' starts with selecting the right tools for the job!

Sabyasachi Patra July 19th, 2012 07:59 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I agree with Simon.

One is expected to use various cameras depending upon their strengths. However, a complete documentary with a particular camera can have some novelty value. If Go Pro would like to sponsor a project completely shot with a Go Pro then why not. You can try that. Alternately, you can create a documentary and approach them for novelty's sake. If you can become their official champion, then no harm.

The other thing that I want to say is, if Go Pro is the only camera a person has, then he/she should try and create films with it. After all, it is more important to accumulate film making experience by shooting short films/documentaries than sitting idle.

Cheers,
Sabyasachi

Noa Put July 19th, 2012 08:17 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Is there a particular reason why you are so keen on using a gopro for documentary? I only see a benefit in using this camera for action shots and sport and to get a few creative shots from difficult angles but other then that any videocamera out there would be better for documentary work. The Gopro has no controls that you can easily access realtime nor any way to verify what you are filming. Maybe a Crocolis would be better? Wholesale Sports Action Camera Full HD From China It's much cheaper and at least you can see what you are filming, plus with what you save you can buy a external audio recorder as audio usualy sounds like crap on these small pocketcams.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynne Whelden (Post 1744359)
maybe a Steadicam

If you plan to use a steadicam, you need to add quite some wheight to it, you can't balance a steadicam with just a gopro on it.

Warren Kawamoto July 19th, 2012 09:15 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I wouldn't use GoPro as a primary camera, but I just bought a Steadicam Smoothee which worked better than expected for me. It's made especially for the iphone or GoPro. When the Smoothee first came out, I thought it was a gimmick because I thought the GoPro would be too light to fly. I was wrong. Upon actually using it, the Smoothee works perfectly well. The best part is the price...only $150! The entire rig is also light as a feather. There is a counterweight in the front of the unit that can slide up and down to rough balance the rig, but it isn't mentioned in the manual. Side to side and front to back adjustments are with traditional Steadicam knobs for precise alignment.

Lynne Whelden July 19th, 2012 12:09 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
The reason I'd want to use a GoPro is the same reason why mountain climbers do mountains! "Because it's there."
I'm surprised nobody has done this yet. (As I said in my opening statement, I'm not talking about music videos. Documentaries by their very nature have nat sound, talking heads, voice-overs and maybe just a little smattering of music somewhere.)
I know its limitations and they're similar to the iphone. But that didn't stop some creative folks from making some pretty incredible videos with the iphone camera when that first came out. That camera had no controls, crappy audio, awful to hold, the list goes on.
For me, it's the challenge of carrying a virtual studio in your pocket. I've shot docs on Sony camcorders before, even super8mm film cameras before. I'd like to move on, shed weight, simplify...but not at the expense of ruining a project if that's what ultimately happens.
I'm hoping to pick someone's brain who has already done it. Maybe that person will say, "Forget it. It's not worth the effort. It's only a bag of headaches.The images look like crap."
Can anyone give me the name or email of someone who's done this already?

Simon Wood July 19th, 2012 01:17 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I haven't heard of any 'talking-head' style documentaries done with a GoPro. If there are any they presumably didn't do too well.

There was a feature length 'found footage' movie shot with GoPros, filmed in a pseudo documentary manner similar to the Blair Witch Project.

Obviously the GoPro was chosen, not because it was there, but rather because it provided a handy McGuffin in allowing a Point-of-View dimension to the movie (and the story happened to revolve around extreme sports characters who are often associated with the camera). So the GoPro seemed like the right tool for this job:

Last Ride

At any rate, being a movie there was a necessity for dialogue and some sort of framing; so perhaps they would have encountered some of the issues that you would like to clarify.

I should point out (and I'm sure most owners of GoPros are the same) that I have at times tried to use the GoPro as a regular camera. Certainly I had used it on a recent skiing holiday to try and capture some family shots in-between skiing. Apart from when it was attached to a ski helmet my experience was to forget it. It was not worth the effort. It was a bag of headaches. And the images, mostly, looked like crap. However, I don't think you want to hear that.

Best of luck with the idea.

Lynne Whelden July 19th, 2012 08:34 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Thanks for the tip. I contacted a James Phillips who I think was involved with that production but everything there is more than a year old and it seems like it never went anywhere. (On his blog he laments having sold only 21 downloads.)
For sure I'm not a GoPro fan-boy and I'm not conjuring this up to try to get a sponsorship. I have no interest in promoting anything.
Maybe, as some suggest, there's a reason why nobody's made anything other than extreme sport stuff with it...

Lynne Whelden July 21st, 2012 08:04 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Well, it's quite interesting to learn there's really no documentary ever been done (other than ones making GoPro part of the story). There's probably a story within that story...
Can anyone comment on the image quality. Specifically, under normal lighting conditions--good light outside--is the image fairly sharp? Sharp enough to pass for acceptable on the "big screen?" Or would people be rubbing their eyes and tears start to form from squinting so much?

Noa Put July 21st, 2012 09:57 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Does it need to be a gopro? have you looked at the Crocolis HD I provided a link to? I have seen users reporting that it can produce quite sharp footage and considering the price AND that you have a tiny viewfinder I would not see any reason why to go for a gopro if you plan to do documentary with it.

Simon Wood July 21st, 2012 01:56 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
There is nothing wrong with the image specifically; especially outdoors with any kind of daylight.

GoPro footage has been turning up on lots of broadcast work; BBC seem to use them in TopGear and the like (for specific shots though, like mounted on the dashboard looking through the steering wheel). It looks just fine on my big screen HDTV.

Sometimes the image seems a bit grainy to me, but nothing out of the ordinary. I have not ever felt the need to run it through with NeatVideo or anything. Its fairly sharp, all things considered. Footage from my DSLR is often a lot softer (depending on the lens).

There are some dramatic video clips out there done with this camera; its definitely capable of pulling off nice video in daylight.

When the camera is pointed vaguely towards the sun you get a lot of flaring (especially considering how wide the lens is, and no hood option); I often get these purple spots and flares on my video.

Nigel Barker July 22nd, 2012 02:48 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Simon Wood (Post 1744700)
There is nothing wrong with the image specifically; especially outdoors with any kind of daylight.

This is why there are so many great looking snowboarding & surfing video clips shot on GoPros they are all shot in bright daylight.

Chris Harding July 22nd, 2012 05:07 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Hi Lynne

I would think it's quite feasible for the right documentary..I mean what crazy person would venture through dripping rainforest after the Amazon Indians with a broadcast camera in the mud and insects...strap a GoPro on your head and you have a waterproof cam that gives you a POV shot of whats happening and there is no reason at all why you couldn't have a recorder in your pocket or even add narration afterwards and just record ambient sound.

The point that seems to be totally missed here is the fact that a doc is only as good as the story line so a real pathetic story line shot with pristine images from a $30K broadcast camera won't work whilst fair images with a brilliant story will capture the viewer 100%!!

We tend to get totally overwhelmed here with technical quality and the IQ of the image becomes obsessive and all the other really imortant factors are ignored!! Tell a really good story with good audio and the images then become only a visual backup for the storyline. If a doc that has a story that has you glued to the screen, are you really going to suddenly decide "Oh, the resolution is a bit soft in that shot" or "I wouldn't have framed that shot like that" ?????

As no-one can actually give you an answer Lynne, go out and be a pioneer and let's see a doc shot just with a GoPro. I bet it will turn out way better than you expected.

Chris

John Wiley July 22nd, 2012 05:34 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
If you'd like, I'll give you a whole bunch of reasons why shooting a doc with a gopro is not a good idea. Then you'll be inspired to go and prove me wrong!

Seriously though, I could picture a doc being shot with GoPros for everything except the interviews. After all, there are plenty of police shows stitched together entirely from terrible quality security camera footage, and linked together with some sit-down interviews.

Simon Wood July 22nd, 2012 05:38 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1744763)
Hi Lynne

I would think it's quite feasible for the right documentary..I mean what crazy person would venture through dripping rainforest after the Amazon Indians with a broadcast camera in the mud and insects...strap a GoPro on your head and you have a waterproof cam that gives you a POV shot of whats happening and there is no reason at all why you couldn't have a recorder in your pocket or even add narration afterwards and just record ambient sound.

The point that seems to be totally missed here is the fact that a doc is only as good as the story line so a real pathetic story line shot with pristine images from a $30K broadcast camera won't work whilst fair images with a brilliant story will capture the viewer 100%!!

We tend to get totally overwhelmed here with technical quality and the IQ of the image becomes obsessive and all the other really imortant factors are ignored!! Tell a really good story with good audio and the images then become only a visual backup for the storyline. If a doc that has a story that has you glued to the screen, are you really going to suddenly decide "Oh, the resolution is a bit soft in that shot" or "I wouldn't have framed that shot like that" ?????

As no-one can actually give you an answer Lynne, go out and be a pioneer and let's see a doc shot just with a GoPro. I bet it will turn out way better than you expected.

Chris

Chris,

The thing is that lots of people have filmed documentaries in the rain forests; and most of the best ones would have used professional gear to get the right results. Hell I've seen some great ones filmed with 35mm film cameras. Have you ever watched POV work for long stretches; it gets very repetitive after a while. There is only so much of that you can watch before it becomes annoying.

I dont disagree that the GoPro is a great hands free camera; thats what it is designed for. But there are lots of small waterproof cameras with a zoom lens, some form of video controls, audio inputs (and audio controls).

At some point you're going to want to actually see and hear what you're recording. At some point you're going to want to lock it off on a tripod, or do some pans and tilts. At some point you're going to want to reframe with a zoom. At some point you're going to want to sit down to do an interview. For most of these eventualities you would want to have a traditional style camera. Then at some point you'll want to strap it to your chest, or your head, or a motorboat, and then yes for those scenes you'll want a GoPro.

If I was in the rainforest doing a documentary I would aim to bring a small traditional camera, and a GoPro. Id hate to be in the middle of the amazon when I realized this (although the POV shot as I slowly shake my head filmed with the GoPro would probably make a fitting finale to the show; maybe I could look up to the sky and shake my fists, or just give myself a good old fashioned head-slap - it'll all look good on a GoPro assuming its not too dark under the canopy).

But yeah, I agree. I'd be interested to see where this goes in the end. My advice to Lynne would be to just buy a GoPro and test it out. You might use it as a primary camera, or you might end up using it as a GoPro, either way you'll definitely use it!

Chris Harding July 22nd, 2012 07:21 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Thanks Guys for the input!

However the bottom line is "is it possible?" and "yes it is" !! When I go out on a shoot I'm the first to admit that I pick up my Panny Shoulder-Mount cams first, tripod and stedicam, then my GoPro case and finally my GH1 .... and I usually use them in that order too. It makes sense to me and that's how I do it.
But drop me from a chopper onto a mountain and I'd have to reassess my gear needs!!

HOWEVER you CAN get pretty nice video on a Hero2 and even audio too and you can lock it down on a tripod or stand. Is the footage terrible ..I don't think so...take a look at the wedding Nigel Barker has just shot on the Wedding and Event's forum here and that is certainly pristine footage so it IS possible and with a bit of care and planning everything doesn't have to be POV but some POV on a doc would add a bit of realism to the footage too (besides I wouldn't be too happy strapping 10 lbs of camera to my chest either or taking it a harsh environment either)

A while back Lynne was looking for an outdoor camera to take into the great outdoors with her and also do interviews...put the hero in a skeleton case, drop it onto a tripod and set the angle to narrow and yes it can be done. Her main issue I think was trying to avoid carrying a mountain of gear to make a movie.

Sure something like the GH series would probably do a better job, but way to delicate for my liking and also not practical as a POV camera either.

I'm quite surprised that Lynne hasn't tried it yet actually (or anyone else)

Chris

Simon Wood July 22nd, 2012 11:02 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1744778)
Thanks Guys for the input!

However the bottom line is "is it possible?" and "yes it is" !! When I go out on a shoot I'm the first to admit that I pick up my Panny Shoulder-Mount cams first, tripod and stedicam, then my GoPro case and finally my GH1 .... and I usually use them in that order too. It makes sense to me and that's how I do it.
But drop me from a chopper onto a mountain and I'd have to reassess my gear needs!!

HOWEVER you CAN get pretty nice video on a Hero2 and even audio too and you can lock it down on a tripod or stand. Is the footage terrible ..I don't think so...take a look at the wedding Nigel Barker has just shot on the Wedding and Event's forum here and that is certainly pristine footage so it IS possible and with a bit of care and planning everything doesn't have to be POV but some POV on a doc would add a bit of realism to the footage too (besides I wouldn't be too happy strapping 10 lbs of camera to my chest either or taking it a harsh environment either)

A while back Lynne was looking for an outdoor camera to take into the great outdoors with her and also do interviews...put the hero in a skeleton case, drop it onto a tripod and set the angle to narrow and yes it can be done. Her main issue I think was trying to avoid carrying a mountain of gear to make a movie.

Sure something like the GH series would probably do a better job, but way to delicate for my liking and also not practical as a POV camera either.

I'm quite surprised that Lynne hasn't tried it yet actually (or anyone else)

Chris

I think when you say 'she' (Lynne Whelden) you mean 'he' !

I agree, Nigel Barkers GoPro clips from that Jewish wedding looked pretty good (but then again it was right next to a huge window letting in a vast amount of daylight). But the GoPro was only doing what everyone uses it for; getting an unusual angle from a strange mounting. I don't reckon Nigel will be doing wedding videos exclusively with the GoPro anytime in the future....

Chris Harding July 22nd, 2012 06:46 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
A huge apology to Lynne if I got your gender wrong!!!

Over here Lynne is normally a female name so I just assumed !

Chris

Noa Put July 23rd, 2012 12:52 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Chris Harding (Post 1744763)
I mean what crazy person would venture through dripping rainforest after the Amazon Indians with a broadcast camera in the mud and insects

I'd say serious documentary makers that produce videos for Nat geo, but they probably got a gopro as well in their filmbag for those shots that are impossible to do with their bulky broadcast camera's :)

Lynne Whelden July 23rd, 2012 07:00 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
No offense! Growing up, I got used to getting letters addressed to "Miss Lynne..." Too bad I wasn't able to parlay that into a scholarship for minorities.
I think a doc using the Hero as the primary camera would be the ultimate slap in the face at all of us (me included) who obsess about resolution and pixels and bit rates and technology in general. I'm not sure I'm the one "called" to be the ground-breaker, because I'm not that tech-oriented. But I'm sure it can be done.

It's sort of like a doc I did (on hi-8mm video) back in '90 on a blind man who hiked the Appalachian Trail, Bill Irwin. No one ever imagined a blind person, even one using a seeing-eye dog, could walk 2,000 miles over rocky trail.
Anyone who does the AT now always has that humbling image in their brain..."If Bill did it, surely "I" can. Who am I to complain?"
So too with GoPro cameras, if someone could make a serious (I'll repeat...not a music video, not an extreme sport zippity do dah slam bam thank you ma'am-type video) documentary...we'd never look at (or lust over) high end cameras the same way again.

Noa Put July 23rd, 2012 07:07 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Quote:

So too with GoPro cameras, if someone could make a serious (I'll repeat...not a music video, not an extreme sport zippity do dah slam bam thank you ma'am-type video) documentary...we'd never look at (or lust over) high end cameras the same way again.
All you need for any kind of documenatry is a good story and editing skills, then cameraspecs don't matter, as long as you have image and sound your viewers won't mind if it's done on a pocketsize camera..

Lynne Whelden July 23rd, 2012 07:34 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Amen!
I'll just add a PS to that...
good audio rather than mediocre audio.
With good audio, a poor image will pass. Lousy audio defeats everything.

Simon Wood July 23rd, 2012 07:36 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Noa Put (Post 1744925)
All you need for any kind of documenatry is a good story and editing skills, then cameraspecs don't matter, as long as you have image and sound your viewers won't mind if it's done on a pocketsize camera..

Totally right.

Here is a recent war documentary broadcast internationally that was filmed with mobile phones in Syria:

IPhone Investigation: An Undercover Documentary From Syria Made Using Phones | Co.Exist: World changing ideas and innovation

Clearly 'broadcast standard' is a flexible term, and at the end of the day interesting content trumps camera specs.

However the reason the Syian documentary was filmed on an iPhone was because journalists are being actively targeted in that country (for capture or worse), so the iPhone allowed the filmmaker to go about his business undercover. The iPhone was not a McGuffin to revolve the story around, rather it was a product of deciding what the right tool for that job was (in the eyes of the filmmaker given his unique set of circumstances).

If the GoPro is the right tool for the job for the filmmaker given his unique set of circumstances, then there is no need for further debate, just film the documentary and let us know how it went!

If the GoPro is just a McGuffin for the sake of it, well, then the debate will continue I guess.

Garrett Low July 24th, 2012 10:30 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
IMHO the GoPro or any other POV wide angle camera has a very distinct look. It isn't due to the codec, bitrate or such, but simply due to the optics. For that reason I don't think a feature length documentary shot only on a GoPro would produce something that the general audience would be willing to sit through. I would argue that Noa left one very important item off his list of requirements for a good documentary, In addition to a good story and good editing, it cannot be fatiguing to watch. This includes audio as well as visual. The look of the GoPro footage serves a purpose. I'm planning on cutting in some footage from a GoPro with a piece I'm working on but it is because it is appropriate and serves a purpose.

Lynne, earlier in the thread when asked why you want to use a GoPro you answered:

'The reason I'd want to use a GoPro is the same reason why mountain climbers do mountains! "Because it's there."'

In my opinion this is one of the biggest mistakes someone can make. It is the same reason I can't stand 90% of what is being produced in Hollywood today. Just because you can have supper slow mo, 1" DOF, and camera moves up the wazoo doesn't mean you should do it. If it doesn't further your story and add something of meaning to it, don't do it. Your goal as a filmmaker is to take your audience, transport them into a magical place which is your story world, and hold them there throughout the entire film. Once you do something that allows them to slip out of the world you've created, and back into reality, you've lost your audience. An hour or two of documentary shot only on a GoPro, and you'd probably get about 2 minutes then you'll loose your audience. If the story is so compelling that they would still be interested, then you probably have a good enough story no matter what it was shot on, so why use a GoPro just to use it? Why not try to make it even better with the proper gear that suites the particular shot?

If you really want to know why you haven't seen a "serious" documentary shot exclusively on a GoPro, go shoot a 5 minute sit down interview with it and have someone watch it.

These are just my opinions and I'm sure will vary greatly from others.

Lynne Whelden July 25th, 2012 05:37 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
The main reason for looking into small or tiny video cameras of the POV variety is that I make backpacking videos. I'm getting older. I don't (or am unable to) carry heavy gear anymore along on my trips. So for me it's both a hike (weeks or months even) and a video in the works.
Under those conditions, I'm tired, and I'm not often bursting with creative juices. So to have a video camera that shoots nice pictures but is easy to use and hardly weighs anything...well, that would be just great.
Also, for my next video I'd like to shoot others I might encounter along the way and record those initial few seconds more so than the following few minutes. Again, a small, inconspicuous camera might accomplish that.
Now that's my intention. Is it reality or fantasy? That's where I was hoping to talk to someone who actually used a GoPro for major production work to see if it was doable. But we're really discovering nobody has really expanded GP's use beyond trick shots.

Renton Maclachlan July 30th, 2012 01:27 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I'd say just get one and try it out. Simple as to use. Virtually indestructable. Weighs next to nothing. I've done a lot of tramping/hiking, and now it would be my camera of choice take with me. Would need extra batteries however...

John David Tressel August 2nd, 2012 04:40 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I think it's doable within reason, as others have mentionned already I believe, the keys issues are:
-poor low light performance
-terrible sound quality
-the image distortion that's not so great(but if you shoot your subject head on it's perfectly usuable, in my opinion)
-lack of manual controls(exposure, iris, white balance etc)
-not so great Dynamic Range etc etc

It's kind of good at what it does, but it doesn't do much so let's not be excessively demanding.

I primarly use it for long timelapse shots and I supplement with footage from other sources

External audio is a must! I use a Zoom H2N

Now I'm not a pro, but I'm going in that direction soon.
Another Gopro HD Hero 2 is on it's away and will be used for documenting a festival in Danemark end of the month. I hope to shoot some interviews
Also getting the LCD bacpac is probably optional I guess, I managed without one up until now but I ordered one because there were too many situations where the shots where off.


Here is a not particurlaly interesting video that I shot a year ago, this was a week after getting my first gopro hd hero (the model preceeding the current Hd Hero 2).
There's a wide variety of environnements and it will give you a good idea of it's capacity(and footage maybe a little closer to what you may be shooting that just surf and bmx videos):
around 4:50 the footage is somewhat decent but the DR just isn't there with the blown out sky
6:20 low light in the city

some black and white footage (with maybe 5% footage that's non gopro):


and a rig shot(here installed on a tripod) of an inversed video handle that holds both the H2N and the gopro:
http://img577.imageshack.us/img577/5...1989711676.jpg

Chris Harding August 2nd, 2012 06:21 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Hi John

Nothing wrong with that at all and it shows it can be done quite easily..a still camera flash bracket works well for the GoPro to increase stability too!!

I notice on the weekend video that there wasn't a lot of curvature at all..did you shoot using the narrow angle setting mainly??? I normally use the medium one (127 degrees). Yep a zoom and you will have good audio too....The Yamaha C24's are very neat recorders and not as bulky as the zoom!

Chris

Lynne Whelden August 2nd, 2012 08:20 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Thanks for posting the videos!
Has anyone ever done a test to see which (reasonably cheap) hand-held audio recorder has the cleanest preamps...translating into the least amount of background noise under quiet conditions? I had mentioned somewhere else that my Zoom H2 was noisy and its static sometimes intruded into sounds recorded at a distance...like far-off thunder.

Renton Maclachlan August 3rd, 2012 04:34 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Looks to me like the GoPro will be my camera of choice for holidays...

Chris Harding August 3rd, 2012 05:39 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Hi Lynne

Bothe Nigel Barker and Noa Put sing the praises of the Yamaha C24 recorder!! They have a post in the wedding forum called "Recording Speeches"

Renton? Apart from anything else the GoPro is tons of fun and that's what holidays are about. The only thing so far that has disappointed me is the LCD BacPac....I rarely use mine so it might be time to put it on eBay and buy some more exciting mounts...I can easily review footage with the cable and external LCD too and that was only $35!!!

Got a wedding in the afternoon tomorrow so the Hero will be up on a light stand again doing a semi aerial shot!!! Great as a backup too!!

Chris

Renton Maclachlan August 3rd, 2012 05:55 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
I've got the LCD Backpac and think it is ok. I didn't have it when I was skiing so not sure how it would go in that type of situation, but I have liked framing a shot with it the few times I have done so...I have it on the camera all the time now, and the camera goes with me most times/places now. Who knows what you may be able to film...its so easy to carry and don't have to worry about it getting damaged.

Chris Harding August 3rd, 2012 08:34 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Renton

I can see that you have a new love in your life now that goes with you everywhere!! They addictive cameras aren't they. Thanks to you, I now am compelled to buy the new underwater housing, ready for Summer which hopefully isn't too far away.

What I'd love to see is a semi-water/splash proof external mic that can plug in the skeleton case and give a little better audio ....I wonder if those tiny stereo mics that used to sell as mics for the little MiniDisk recorders would work....does anyone know what mics work well?? I have a dynamiv lav mic but it doesn't work at all with the camera..I would suspect it would have to be a powered mic???

Chris

Lynne Whelden August 3rd, 2012 10:07 AM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Two observations...
One, converting the Hero footage to black and white certainly elevates the footage to a whole other level. An effect worth pondering.

Two, I tested a bunch of external mics and posted my results on another very active GoPro site from down under. I came to the conclusion no mic can overcome the basic noise level built into the current editions of Hero cameras. Very noisy preamps. An AGC that's out of control. Unless you're planning to use a mic to constantly shout on the soundtrack, it's probably not worth wasting money on anything other than the bare mic that comes built-in.

Steve Benjamin August 3rd, 2012 12:11 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
You might find this interesting on oliviatech review website OliviaTech GoPro HERO 2 with Boompole and BlurFix Flat Lens Housing

Renton Maclachlan August 3rd, 2012 05:54 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Chris. Here's something more to spend your money on... :-)

Hooded Silicone Covers for GoPro HD
XSories Hooded Silicone Cover for GoPro HD - Product Reviews - PointofViewCameras Vancouver BC Canada

I got one of these to carry all the bits...Pelican knock off...
Kincrome Water Proof Safe Case Medium. #51011

Perhaps this...
UNRULY - HEADCASE + HEADGEAR Housings for GoPro by /CLARK/ — Kickstarter

Renton Maclachlan August 3rd, 2012 06:21 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Also...
UShot

Chris Harding August 3rd, 2012 07:16 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
Hi Renton

Thanks for the links and thanks to Lynne for the mic comments too!!

I'm using an aluminium case from Bunnings for the Hero and it's already full..it was a cheaper option at $29.00 and I added a chunk of foam from the foam shop up the road. If you go this option make sure you buy the very light closed cell foam that's quite stiff ..it's also easy to cut!!

OK, seems like the Hero has the same audio issues as DSLR's...so a Recorder is the answer then?

I have never used mine for main audio but I do use the audio it produces just for syncing with other footage

Chris

Renton Maclachlan August 3rd, 2012 07:41 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
External mic...

Better GoPro Sound with the Sony ECM DS70P - YouTube

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=sony+ecm-ds70p

Chris Harding August 3rd, 2012 08:59 PM

Re: Attention serious documentary filmmakers!
 
The Sony mic seems to lose all the bass response judging from the video.

My mate Philip in the UK uses a AT shotgun mic with his cameras and he seems pretty happy with the outcome. Then again you really don't want anything too big otherwise you are defeating the portability of the unit. My Rodes are already modified for permanent XLR connections on the big cameras so I can't try those either!! All three of my wireless receivers are also XLR output too. I must admit I don't like using a recorder for interviews as you have to re-sync the audio in post and that might involve a bit of adjust with long interviews..I guess short ones would be fine but I still prefer to work with synced audio

These guys have a raw mic and also a mic with a windscreen. http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GoPro-Mic...item41662d4179

Chris


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