any firmware ?
 

first of all, i apologize for my next poor english...!! i've done many visits on the site to read reviews, comments and download your samples & footage. I think i've understood how to consider the HD1 now.
i know why i could buy it or not, and for what to do.

i saw an update of C1's firmware. Obviously, major part of you here probably don't need this because of manual parameters...

wouldn't it be possible to ask sanyo an update to fix problems, and make interesting the "auto" mode? just to make the sanyo easier to use, and more efficient...

i know brands can accept lists of bugs, problems, from many customers : qtek, Cowon (iaudio) do this easily.

i have a last question : i actually record with a JVC GRD200E dv cam (1,33p). Can someone could confirm me the HD1 would shot better...?stills & videos...!!


thank u again

Cowon make the some of the best portable media players in the world - while Sanyo aren't at the top of the video camera game at all.

But it will be interesting to see whether there is a firmware upgrade - and whether the camera's limitations can be resolved through firmware anyway.

i know i got the A2 pmp!! nearly all-day updated !! lol
i think sanyo won't do it if it's not asked (as u said their not at the top of camera brands)

Graham you got the HD1 i suppose? Are the video quality far from a middle class DV corder? I 've difficulty to compare. It is easier to compare with better HD camcorders, but that's not what i want.

It's neither like a middle class DV corder or a HDV device.

Reminds me more of a Super 8 camera, actually, because it's extremely limited yet capable of creating shockingly beautiful images in certain conditions.

yeah i understand. Choice is not easy. My dv camcorder don't do nice movies...but if i change, maybe i should wait sony hdd or HC1-HC3 being cheaper.

thanks

But the reason i want an HD1 is coz i can get it for under £400.

Its small light, doesnt use tapes and produces good video. Ok not amazing quality, but for £400 what do you expect?

SO im hoping for a firmware update before i make the purchase.

exactly, my first reason to buy is its cost...on eastbay, i can get it fo 600€ (HD1+extra battery+4GB SD). I just have to sell my previous DV corder.

Any guys to send a common mail to Sanyo asking a firmware?

Hi! I e-mailed Sanyo Spain reporting the bug and asking for a firmware. They contacted Sanyo Japan and are waiting for the answer. I attached this image to explain the problem: http://www.i-real3d.com/Archivos/HD1Bug.jpg
I think that Sanyo will develope a firmware if a lot users demands it. The common mail is also a good idea.
Bye!

thanks for your post Carlos, i had not already seen the bug on the pixels. Your picture joined is a good idea.
I'm gonna ty to email SanyoFrance too, i suppose you agree i use your picture with it.

if someone is ok to do a common mail, we could make a list of bugs and email it to sanyo.


Knwon bugs:
- split screen bug?
- stabilization OFF mode needed
- poor quality in dark environment
- diagonal pixels
- ......??

BAD NEWS. Sanyo WILL NOT release any Firmware for this camera. They know the bug, and they will correct it in the next models (HD2?), but not in the HD1.

Here is the answer from Sanyo Spain (in spanish):

"Disponemos de una contestación desde Japón sobre este asunto y la respuesta no es positiva. Reconocen el error en la cámara pero no se va a crear una actualización de Firmware para mejorarlo. Solamente en posteriores modelos se corregirá.

Lógicamente no estará usted satisfecho con la respuesta y lo comprendemos, por ello le invitamos a que devuelva el producto a la tienda donde lo compro y solicite el reembolso del importe.

Atentamente, un saludo."

I hope you understand my translation:

"We have an answer from Japan about this point and the answer is not positive. They recognize the camera´s error but an actualized firmware will not be created to solve it. Only will be corrected in next models.

Logically, you will not be happy with the answer and we understand it, for this, we invite you to return the product to the shop were you bought it and request the refund of the money.

Attentivly, greetings."

:-(

Massive mails to Sanyo Japan!!!

i sent an email to sanyo france, i think it's sanyo europe. Waiting for their answer but it will probably be the same as you got.


Massive mail to sanyo japan s a good idea :-)

HD2 ??? no previews on this?!!!

Recall?
 

Maybe there should be a recall then of this camera. If they are unwilling to fix it in a firmware release, I think it's a big enough bug to warrant recalling the cameras.

I'll stay with my HD1, even if they don't fix the firmware. But when I replace the unit, my new one won't be a Sanyo. If they won't release a firmware update for such apparent flaws, they don't deserve my future business. As I see it, the issue is one of honour. I'm very surprised that the Japanese, with face and honour so strong in their culture, would consider it acceptable to leave such a flaw in their units. The answer is a discrace. And even with honour aside, do they not realize that it's us early adopters that create the stable base that masses move on? Their choice is hardly strategic.

This is indeed a bad news. It must mean that HD1 didn't make enough buzz and the user base is small enough to ignore. How else would sanyo say it so blatantly? It is very unprofessional, and quite cooperation-like of sanyo.

How can we make this into a bad publicity for sanyo? Anybody care to start a petition?

They won't put out an firmware update, they should at least fix it up straight away for all the new batches coming off the assembly line.

With all the existing performance glitches, and problems reported with this camera lately, it's existing doesn't deserve a good name. Screens that go off, and fall off, I think I heard that one, is just incredible.

It would have been great, if Sanyo deserved a medal for the performance or the quality.

You are right, people need to email and complain.

Carlos, maybe you could ask them when the next model is coming? After all that, you can email them again and tell them that you are advising everybody to do as they said, and return their Sanyo cameras for a refund, or not buy them, that should interest them. Maybe users can't do the upgrade, or the bug is hardwired into the encoder chips, and can't be changed until the present batch of chips runs out.

I am here to post a thread about the possibility of changing the recorded files around to correct the bug. Maybe you could email them and ask them if the bug is before or after the compression stages, and how much it effects the compression, explained in definite technical terms of where it is in the process. If the bug is after compression, or doesn't effect compression at all, then a simple conversion program can change footage (as the bug should definitely effect the quality of trans-coding without it). It also means that it would be possible for all mpeg4 editing/trans-coding programs to recognise and change it around.

Re-edit:
Here it is:

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...645#post495645

This is outrageous! I purchased a legit (not gray market) HD-1 knowing about the diagonal line jaggies, which I find objectionable. Given that most digital cameras on the market today are updated with bug fixes, I trusted Sanyo to fix this bug and I did a "risk purchase" of the HD-1. If Sanyo doesn't fix our HD-1 cams, I won't be buying their products again.

Yes!

There's a chance of HD-1 firmware updates!
 

I posted on this issue over at Steve's Digicams. It seems Sanyo is considering a program to enable HD-1 owners to update their firmware, though no specific bugfixes are yet available or announced.

I suggest that we write to Sanyo and request this plan be implemented and also request bugfixes for whatever problems you feel need to be addressed. For me, it's the jaggies! Personally, I think we should also mention that PC-based updates are preferable to sending the cams to a service center.

Send comments to:

SANYO FisherCompany

Attn: Service�Manager, Xacti products

21605 Plummer�StreetChatsworth, CA 91311

(Address provided by Steve's Digicams forum member and Sanyo representative.)

email for sanyo Japan
 

Does anyone have an email for customer support for Sanyo Japan?
Also as a user of the HD1 I would like to send my concerns re this product.

Have you got a link to the Steve Digicams thread?

Don't forget problems with stepping in the auto functions and the other manual problems, and shadow and sky clipping. Maybe you could also mention some suggested improvements I mentioned on the other thread, like different low light/latitude binning, upping the data rate to whatever they can get (where ever it's 13 or 19 it all helps) and the other suggestions. (I hope Sanyo can redeem themselves).

Found it, and I posted a summary of suggestions and problems over there for the Sanyo rep to forward on. Even if he does, it would be good to send your own, as they are more likely to listen to numbers.

Here it is:
http://www.stevesforums.com/forums/v...542165#p542165

I suggest we leave him in peace over there now.

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69301

I wonder if the above qualifies as a bug. I am still rather curious. Either no one else notices them yet due to the way I test my camera for defects or my hd1 must be defected

I don't know, but I put a link to your thread in that post at stevesdigicam as one of the proofs.

If the noise is individual pixels speckled the wrong colour, it could be gain noise problem causing problems with the debayering, but having not seen it, I can't say.

Nope I am not concern about the noise color. I am more concern with how it is concentrated in some specific areas forming vertical lines

Hi, You did put a link? I am sorry but i don't see any replies so far. Perhaps you could point out exactly which thread you are refering to. Thanks

To your bug thread (please note, that for some reason links to the same thread might have different formats).

http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?t=69301


It is hard to see your bug problem, maybe you should post a frame over there. It could be the same problem I described, as the gain pushes up the noise and it spikes across a column of pixels, but it could be something else entirely. If it is from bright light in the picture then it is more likely what I said, otherwise it might more likely be something else causing the lines.

If it is blooming causing the streaks and common to all these cameras, then it is just related to the level of sensor technology. Good sensors have anti-blooming circuits to suppress this, how much depends on how good the level of tech used (these circuits also negatively effect fill factor, which is the coverage of the sensor pad across the pixel).

Hi,

I finally found a place to upload the clip and posted a small clip over there, let me know what you think. It's defnitely isnt blooming since blooming usually follows the object and it moves as you move the camera. In my case, it's always in the same area wherever I move the camera.

Sanyo said :
"
Please remember my previous comments. For the US market, we are "looking" at allowing it and "may" make it available.

Also, the HD1 firmware since initial shipment is still the most current firmware.
"

posted by "sanyo" on steve's forum. I think, like wayne said, many units should be returned...and guys don't know these are bugs.

i still propose massive mail... !!! I've already sent 7 mails containing bugs description to differents adress of sanyo's support.
I hope they will react, on line.

Hi Guys!

John Carlson has a new bug, purple lines coming into his low light footage. He is on a tight time line to return the camera (days). If some of you would like to got over there and help him verify it is just a bug with his camera, I'm sure he would be appreciated.

Testing your cameras in extreme low light for these vertical column lines is probably the best thing.

The thread is here:
http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthread.php?p=496914

Will there be a HD2, or HD1 manufacturing revision, in two months?
 

Guys, last night I realised something. Around a month ago Sanyo here told me that the camera wouldn't get here for, I think, three months. This was shocking, as it didn't make sense. It occurred to me, maybe they are waiting for something, a manufacturing revision with the bugs ironed out maybe, a 25fps UltraSHQ 9mb/s+ camera (please) even. But then they would still be up against at least one superior HD h264 camera, so maybe they might release a HD2.

On a 6 month release cycle, a big brother to the HD1, would make sense (with a much cheaper ironed out HD1 revision I can recommend to people). Even if I was Spielberg, I would still like a pocket second camera like this to carry around, so it is worth doing right.

I think this makes sense because, in my local city we have almost every major retail chain store, and not one of them sells Sanyo cameras, and I don't know of any store that does. This camera is the sort of thing that can be used to get Sanyo products back into shops, but in two months the first superior 720p H264 pocket camera will be available, ruining this retail advantage with out a competitive model (or they are waiting for ironed out model or 25fps).

point of interest
 

posted on steve's forum:

"Posted: Thu Jun 15th, 2006 11:46 am

I've found that there is no problem when playing back by the camera itself. Even you zoom in the video, the quality of "\" lines is the same of the "/" lines, in the OLED screen.

The bug exists ONLY in software playback, all my tested softwares, including QuickTime, VLC, ffdshow.

So, it's possible a small program or filter software can fix the problem of the files recorded, before the firmware update is available."

That's curious, it might indicate that the screen gets uncompressed video (though the zoom is going to have to have at least 4 times the resolution to come up on the smallest pixel, 16 times before you can easily see it on the small screen).

I think the fault is recorded by the camera. What do you see when you playback from the camera to HD screen (or TV with 4-16 times zoom)?

I´ve just connected the camera to a HD projector throught component cable and the problem is still there.:-(

Carlos,

Thank you for trying that, I was thinking the same thing yesterday.

Too bad, for one moment I was thinking that one could do straight playback and skip the problem... Oh Well. soo much for dreaming. (smile)


Bo

www.bophoto.com/HDV

Processing software to get rid of it should still be possible.

I've just noticed something interesting about the AVCHD camera format (18Mb/s h264) is that there is no 30p or 25p 720p, it goes from 24p straight to 50/60p. I think it more likely now that those modes will have 18mb/s. Should give pocket cams with out the quality problems of the Sanyo. I wonder if anybody over at the AVC threads have noticed this:

http://www2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs...02006070009078

I kind of agree with Manu, I don't see the jagged edges when watching videos in my HDTV, just a hint of blurriness in the edges (but I have to try very hard).

In the computer screen however, is very evident.

I use a 55" projection TV and for playback a Showcenter 200 network media player. My guess is that there is some kind of interlacing that is "fixing" part of the problem, probably because the output of the showcenter is 1080i.

Wayne, regarding the AVCHD standard: wouldn't 50/60P be better than 25/30P?

You can always throw out every other frame in post production to get a 25/30P product from the 50/60P stream, but the higher frame rate is there if you want smoother motion or to get a slow motion effect.

Yes, it is just likely that these modes might get the full 18mb/s. 24p might be reserved for more expensive cameras.

Also dividing the 18mb/s into 60/50fps, leads to lower performance then 30/25fps. I think it is a bit too much, but as 24fps is the main worry for quality, maybe it will be alright if that can work at 24fps. I still prefer the 50mb/s intra frame pro version though.

So will the HD1A have corrected firmware ??

After getting tired of all problems with my camera and frustration that I can’t return because it been more that 30 days and sending emails to Sanyo with no response. I have decided to go directly to Sanyo’s office in Chatsworth CA. Yesterday I went to them . I spoke with John I tried to explain and show him what problems I (we) have 1. Stabilization 2. Low light recording 3. Purple leaves instead of green and my dog purple in HD. He denied that problems exist with camera at all and they have not received any complains but he said that some cameras experiencing problem described here http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/showthrea...645#post495645 even though he saw purple by himself when he made a small video inside an office. I told him either fix those problems or take camera back. He said that he can’t fixed problems in my camera because there is nothing wrong with camera. He gave a phone number of Mr. Duarte I spoke with him today he said same thing there is no problem but I asked him to take look at my camera one more time and I will bring more footage he agreed . So, I will bring my camera with footage On Monday at Sanyo office and leave there and he will call me back with results. So if anyone has footage with problems give a file I try to transfer to my card and give it to him. oh yea and John told me that HD1A is almost same camera just more features
Thank you