Power Supply Trouble at DVinfo.net

Ken Schreiner · December 3rd, 2004, 10:50 AM

I have an Athlon MP2000+, 1.67 ghz, TigerMP Dual Athlon motherboard, Digisuite LX MAX, Adobe Premiere 6.01. In the little over two years since I've owned it, I've gone through at least three power supplies. The latest one is 550W and it blew out yesterday. I've checked DVInfo Net for similar problems and can't find any. The system's on a surge protector and the problems don't appear to be caused by power failures. The break downs are preceded by crashes, usually while rendering big chunks of the hour-long projects I do. Evidence of burning at the connections to the power supply and the wonderful smell of smouldering electronics always accompany the breakdowns. The computer has eight fans on board and I keep a huge external one blowing on it all the time. I won't mention the vendor but they are confounded. Any thoughts? Thanks.

Dan Euritt · December 3rd, 2004, 05:29 PM

which connectors have evidence of burning? where they connect to the motherboard? what they connect to should tell you where the big current draw is.

are you running big scsi drives?

as an aside, one thing to watch out for with athlons is dirt and dust between the cpu fan and the heat sink... i find that i have to take the fan off the heat sink to get most of it fully cleaned out.

Glenn Chan · December 3rd, 2004, 07:51 PM

My guesses:
A- Take a look at your motherboard for leaking capacitors.
http://www.careyholzman.com/caps/images/cap9.jpg
The brown crap means the capacitors/motherboard need replacing.

Swapping motherboard forces re-installation of Windows unless you uninstall stuff beforehand (please ask for instructions).

B- Low/abnormal voltage to your computer would strain the power supply and might be causing all of your power supplies to die prematurely. I'm not sure how to check this exactly. Ideas:
1a- Skip the surge protector and plug into wall. Unplug computer when storms approach (lighting can kill your computer even if turned off; surge protectors do not always protect against this depending on proximity of lightning strike).
1b- Use Motherboard Monitor to check voltages or your motherboard's voltage/temperature/health monitoring utility.
Or, use a volt meter and measure manually (ask for instructions).
I would NOT clean out your heatsink unless it reads high temperatures in aforementioned monitoring utilities.

2- Make sure the computer is getting room temperature air. Do not stick it in a cabinet.

3- Is there extreme dust in your computer???

4- Buy quality power suppies, not ones with fudged specs. Sparkle and Fortron are generally considering good bang/buck power supplies (avoid the Sparkle powerQ stuff), while Enermax, PC Power & Cooling, Antec, Seasonic, etc. are also good albiet more expensive for the same wattage.

Ken Schreiner · December 4th, 2004, 04:27 PM

Thanks for the opinions. Temperature should not be a factor. Because of the earlier problems, I leave it in the open and run a floor fan on it. There is a little dust inside but nothing heavy. The drives are 2 Ultra ATAs/133 with 230 GB each.
I avoid working in the guts because the vendor claims it's something I'm doing wrong, not a design or materials problem (although the last time I got it back the video boards were not reinstalled properly). I believe it's something that happens over time, that the drives work the power supply to a slow death. You can put a larger power supply in there (we've already increased the size once) but how do you keep it cool?
I agree with Gary Adcock in the July, 2004 Videography magazine: "running video on your computer is second only to dragging it behind your car for the wear and tear it manifests on your machine."

Christopher Go · December 5th, 2004, 01:44 AM

That is a known issue with some of Tyan's Tiger MP motherboards. Do a search on a few hardware forums and you'll know. Essentially, the ATX power connector on the motherboard is unable to handle the +5V line properly, if I remember correctly, and Tyan even started issuing fixes for this motherboard if you sent it in to them. Check the ATX power connector on the motherboard and you'll see browning for the +5V lines.

I'd send Tyan an email or call them to arrange an RMA, or buy a new mobo soon. That could prove dangerous in the long run.

Ken Schreiner · December 5th, 2004, 09:25 AM

That's incredible. I can't believe a company that manufactured a product that is a known fire hazard did not issue an immediate recall and provide replacements. Thanks for your help on this Christopher!

Dan Euritt · December 5th, 2004, 12:29 PM

ken, we need answers to questions in order to really help you.

you said the ps connectors showed signs of browning(?), but you never stated which connectors it was... the 12v connectors? the 5v connectors? all of 'em??

you did answer that your drives are half-high ide's, but that is a typical situation that any power suppy can handle.

you have a big fan blowing into the case... why??? exactly what part is overheating?

wrt the tyan... all circuit boards come with fire retardant on 'em, so it's very unlikely that the board will actually burst into flame.

Ken Schreiner · December 5th, 2004, 04:18 PM

I can't tell you which connectors were browned because that was what the vendor's tech said he noticed when he changed power supplies. I have not done any of the work on the computer yet. I'll have to go in to see and get back to you. I have the fan blowing because I wasn't sure what the problem was and I can't add any more internal fans because there's no room. It's probably a waste of time but I figured it couldn't hurt. Thanks for the info on the fire hazard and lack thereof.

Christopher Go · December 5th, 2004, 05:13 PM

Ken, Dan's right, we can't say for sure what the problem is exactly without someone looking at the ATX connector at least, but when I read something about burning and Tyan Tiger MP, I remember that issue. I have a Tyan Tiger MP as well, in fact, but fortunately I've never had that problem. I agree about the recall sentiment, many people felt the same way.

If you want, peruse this very long thread, along with the photos of the suspect ATX connectors:

Tyan Tiger MP Power Problems

I have an Antec 550W True Power power supply for my system. Occasionally, I pull the ATX connector out to see if any browning is occuring. So far so good. If I were you, and this is indeed what is happening, I'd RMA the board or buy a new one.

May or may not be what you're experiencing, but I hope this helps.

Ken Schreiner · December 5th, 2004, 05:20 PM

Dan, I just checked the 20-pin connector and there are no burn marks or any evidence there. I'm just going to do more research and work with the vendor again. Thanks for your helpl.

Dan Euritt · December 6th, 2004, 01:31 PM

i ran a fan into the open side of my pc because the cpu temps got too high under heavy use... then i figured out the aforementioned dirty heat sink problem on the cpu was causing the problem... but that shouldn't cause the power supply to die.

speaking as former pc tech, it sounds to me like your vendor is dropping the ball on this issue.

Ken Schreiner · December 6th, 2004, 01:45 PM

I've found out some new info regarding the vendor and the problem thanks to you, Christopher, Glenn and others. I'm convinced my problem is the same as other Tyan Tiger S2460 owners. The evidence is overwhelming. The mobo looks like it had bad connectors causing voltage to fluctuate and make the board unstable. Blowing power supplies is one of the biproducts. The vendor says he is getting replacements (S2466s) from Tyan and Tyan said it would gladly help me with the repair/replacement of the board if I chose to go that way. It doesn't sound like it was always this way, though. The thread on 2cpu.com is incredible.

Christopher Go · December 9th, 2004, 05:28 PM

Hey Ken, glad the info from 2CPU helped, but I'm sorry to hear that your motherboard may have been one of the faulty ones. Makes me smile knowing that Tyan is willing to help, guess they must still be receiving complaints to this day.

For anyone with a dual processor board, 2CPU is a great resource.

December 3rd, 2004, 10:50 AM	#1
Ken Schreiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 25	Power Supply Trouble I have an Athlon MP2000+, 1.67 ghz, TigerMP Dual Athlon motherboard, Digisuite LX MAX, Adobe Premiere 6.01. In the little over two years since I've owned it, I've gone through at least three power supplies. The latest one is 550W and it blew out yesterday. I've checked DVInfo Net for similar problems and can't find any. The system's on a surge protector and the problems don't appear to be caused by power failures. The break downs are preceded by crashes, usually while rendering big chunks of the hour-long projects I do. Evidence of burning at the connections to the power supply and the wonderful smell of smouldering electronics always accompany the breakdowns. The computer has eight fans on board and I keep a huge external one blowing on it all the time. I won't mention the vendor but they are confounded. Any thoughts? Thanks.

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December 3rd, 2004, 05:29 PM	#2
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	which connectors have evidence of burning? where they connect to the motherboard? what they connect to should tell you where the big current draw is. are you running big scsi drives? as an aside, one thing to watch out for with athlons is dirt and dust between the cpu fan and the heat sink... i find that i have to take the fan off the heat sink to get most of it fully cleaned out.

December 3rd, 2004, 07:51 PM	#3
Glenn Chan Inner Circle Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 4,750	My guesses: A- Take a look at your motherboard for leaking capacitors. http://www.careyholzman.com/caps/images/cap9.jpg The brown crap means the capacitors/motherboard need replacing. Swapping motherboard forces re-installation of Windows unless you uninstall stuff beforehand (please ask for instructions). B- Low/abnormal voltage to your computer would strain the power supply and might be causing all of your power supplies to die prematurely. I'm not sure how to check this exactly. Ideas: 1a- Skip the surge protector and plug into wall. Unplug computer when storms approach (lighting can kill your computer even if turned off; surge protectors do not always protect against this depending on proximity of lightning strike). 1b- Use Motherboard Monitor to check voltages or your motherboard's voltage/temperature/health monitoring utility. Or, use a volt meter and measure manually (ask for instructions). I would NOT clean out your heatsink unless it reads high temperatures in aforementioned monitoring utilities. 2- Make sure the computer is getting room temperature air. Do not stick it in a cabinet. 3- Is there extreme dust in your computer??? 4- Buy quality power suppies, not ones with fudged specs. Sparkle and Fortron are generally considering good bang/buck power supplies (avoid the Sparkle powerQ stuff), while Enermax, PC Power & Cooling, Antec, Seasonic, etc. are also good albiet more expensive for the same wattage.

December 4th, 2004, 04:27 PM	#4
Ken Schreiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 25	Thanks for the opinions. Temperature should not be a factor. Because of the earlier problems, I leave it in the open and run a floor fan on it. There is a little dust inside but nothing heavy. The drives are 2 Ultra ATAs/133 with 230 GB each. I avoid working in the guts because the vendor claims it's something I'm doing wrong, not a design or materials problem (although the last time I got it back the video boards were not reinstalled properly). I believe it's something that happens over time, that the drives work the power supply to a slow death. You can put a larger power supply in there (we've already increased the size once) but how do you keep it cool? I agree with Gary Adcock in the July, 2004 Videography magazine: "running video on your computer is second only to dragging it behind your car for the wear and tear it manifests on your machine."

December 5th, 2004, 01:44 AM	#5
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	That is a known issue with some of Tyan's Tiger MP motherboards. Do a search on a few hardware forums and you'll know. Essentially, the ATX power connector on the motherboard is unable to handle the +5V line properly, if I remember correctly, and Tyan even started issuing fixes for this motherboard if you sent it in to them. Check the ATX power connector on the motherboard and you'll see browning for the +5V lines. I'd send Tyan an email or call them to arrange an RMA, or buy a new mobo soon. That could prove dangerous in the long run.

December 5th, 2004, 09:25 AM	#6
Ken Schreiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 25	That's incredible. I can't believe a company that manufactured a product that is a known fire hazard did not issue an immediate recall and provide replacements. Thanks for your help on this Christopher!

December 5th, 2004, 12:29 PM	#7
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	ken, we need answers to questions in order to really help you. you said the ps connectors showed signs of browning(?), but you never stated which connectors it was... the 12v connectors? the 5v connectors? all of 'em?? you did answer that your drives are half-high ide's, but that is a typical situation that any power suppy can handle. you have a big fan blowing into the case... why??? exactly what part is overheating? wrt the tyan... all circuit boards come with fire retardant on 'em, so it's very unlikely that the board will actually burst into flame.

December 5th, 2004, 04:18 PM	#8
Ken Schreiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 25	I can't tell you which connectors were browned because that was what the vendor's tech said he noticed when he changed power supplies. I have not done any of the work on the computer yet. I'll have to go in to see and get back to you. I have the fan blowing because I wasn't sure what the problem was and I can't add any more internal fans because there's no room. It's probably a waste of time but I figured it couldn't hurt. Thanks for the info on the fire hazard and lack thereof.

December 5th, 2004, 05:13 PM	#9
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	Ken, Dan's right, we can't say for sure what the problem is exactly without someone looking at the ATX connector at least, but when I read something about burning and Tyan Tiger MP, I remember that issue. I have a Tyan Tiger MP as well, in fact, but fortunately I've never had that problem. I agree about the recall sentiment, many people felt the same way. If you want, peruse this very long thread, along with the photos of the suspect ATX connectors: Tyan Tiger MP Power Problems I have an Antec 550W True Power power supply for my system. Occasionally, I pull the ATX connector out to see if any browning is occuring. So far so good. If I were you, and this is indeed what is happening, I'd RMA the board or buy a new one. May or may not be what you're experiencing, but I hope this helps.

December 5th, 2004, 05:20 PM	#10
Ken Schreiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 25	Dan, I just checked the 20-pin connector and there are no burn marks or any evidence there. I'm just going to do more research and work with the vendor again. Thanks for your helpl.

December 6th, 2004, 01:31 PM	#11
Dan Euritt Trustee Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Carlsbad CA Posts: 1,132	i ran a fan into the open side of my pc because the cpu temps got too high under heavy use... then i figured out the aforementioned dirty heat sink problem on the cpu was causing the problem... but that shouldn't cause the power supply to die. speaking as former pc tech, it sounds to me like your vendor is dropping the ball on this issue.

December 6th, 2004, 01:45 PM	#12
Ken Schreiner Regular Crew Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Salt Lake City, Utah Posts: 25	I've found out some new info regarding the vendor and the problem thanks to you, Christopher, Glenn and others. I'm convinced my problem is the same as other Tyan Tiger S2460 owners. The evidence is overwhelming. The mobo looks like it had bad connectors causing voltage to fluctuate and make the board unstable. Blowing power supplies is one of the biproducts. The vendor says he is getting replacements (S2466s) from Tyan and Tyan said it would gladly help me with the repair/replacement of the board if I chose to go that way. It doesn't sound like it was always this way, though. The thread on 2cpu.com is incredible.

December 9th, 2004, 05:28 PM	#13
Christopher Go Major Player Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: Honolulu, HI Posts: 429	Hey Ken, glad the info from 2CPU helped, but I'm sorry to hear that your motherboard may have been one of the faulty ones. Makes me smile knowing that Tyan is willing to help, guess they must still be receiving complaints to this day. For anyone with a dual processor board, 2CPU is a great resource.