Blu Ray AVCHD or H.264/MPEG2 HD

Robert M Wright · January 3rd, 2010, 01:06 PM

Heck, I'd even be tempted to turn off CABAC for the H264 encoding, and make it easier for even slow computers to playback (only costs about 10% in file size to get the same quality, but takes a lot less CPU power for playback - not to mention faster encoding). Like Perrone said, use multi-pass VBR encodings - and I'd add cranking up some encoding settings to boot. With a reasonably potent quad core CPU, 20 minutes isn't a lot of video to encode. It slows the encode down a bit, but going to like 5 or 6 reference frames, and being liberal with consecutive B frames (like 8 or so), can give a bit of a bump up in image quality for H264 encodings (and still plays fine on a computer - you don't have some of the nutty restrictions Blu-Ray specs slap on you).

Steve Kalle · January 3rd, 2010, 05:31 PM

Well, I tried exporting WMV from AE using both 9 and 9 Advanced with horrible results. For both, I used Variable Restrained or something similar and set the bitrate to 9.5Mb/s and max to 10Mb/s. Both files were far smaller than they should have been. Any thoughts?

I will probably install TMPGEnc Xpress and render a master copy from AE. So, any suggestions for the format of the master copy?

And how would I make a DVD with additional video files? I only know how to use TMPGEnc Authoring Works for making DVDs (no Encore experience).

Thanks again.

Robert M Wright · January 3rd, 2010, 05:59 PM

I don't know Adobe's stuff at hardly at all.

What's the video format (frame size, progressive or interlaced, framerate) of your final edited version of the video (for example:1920x1080p24)? How many minutes long is the final edited version? Do you have Cineform's codec installed on your computer? Do you have Virtual Dub installed on your computer? Do you have loads of available disk space to work with? (how much?)

As to how you mix formats, that's pretty simple. Hopefully this explains it clearly. You create the DVD structure (with whatever tools), which has a video_ts folder and appropriate contents in it (VOB files and such). At the root of the folder containing the DVD "image" (of sorts, the actual video_ts folder and appropriate files in the video_ts folder, not an ISO disk image) you also add the *.mp4 file and the *.wmv file (which are the respective files containing the H264 and WMV encoded videos.

So, the root of the actual DVD disk, when you go to burn it, should wind up containing a folder named video_ts (which contains the files for the dvd video) and a file named whatever.mp4 and a file named whatever.wmv (also at the root). Most DVD authoring programs will also put a folder named audio_ts at the root of the DVD too (it won't have anything in it though). Just leave it there (it's technically proper to have it even if it's empty).

Robert M Wright · January 3rd, 2010, 06:08 PM

When the disk is burned, laid out as described above, and the disk inserted into a standard DVD player, the DVD player will look for the video_ts and audio_ts folders, look inside them to determine what it should do, and use those files inside those folders to play the video as a DVD video (since the audio_ts folder will be empty, the DVD player won't actually do anything with it). It will ignore the other files (the mp4 and wmv) at the root of the disk, but when somebody puts the disk in their computer, they can double click on those files to play those versions of the video. That's a "mixed format" disk. In short, you make a proper DVD, and then add whatever extra files you want to add, at the root (and the player ignores them).

Steve Kalle · January 3rd, 2010, 06:34 PM

Thanks Robert, you explained it perfectly.

The master copy will be 1080 29.97p. No cineform and no Virtual Dub. 20 minutes long and several TB's of space available. I am rendering it as a QT file at the moment and it will be at least 15GB, but I don't remember what settings I used. I think I used the same settings as I use for proxies which is PNG.

Robert M Wright · January 3rd, 2010, 06:47 PM

I'm assuming the original footage was shot at 1080p.

I asked about VirtualDub, because using VDub is the easiest way to downsize the video well (for converting to 720p prior to compressing the HD versions, and to (720)x480p for DVD. No NLE I'm aware of resizes images better, or even very well at all (most suck at it). I'd suggest downloading VDub. It's not difficult to use to do the resize. If you really want to do it up right, you could do a real light visually lossless denoising in VDub to improve compression performance a little bit too. That's not real tough either.

I asked about Cineform, because their codec would be pretty ideal for exporting the final version from Adobe at 1080p (then downsizing it with VDub > then encoding). Since you've got plenty of HDD space though, you could just export uncompressed though. I'd suggest exporting the 1080p "master" from Adobe as uncompressed using YUY2 encoding (4:2:2 color space) if you know how to do that from Adobe.

January 3rd, 2010, 01:06 PM	#16
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	Heck, I'd even be tempted to turn off CABAC for the H264 encoding, and make it easier for even slow computers to playback (only costs about 10% in file size to get the same quality, but takes a lot less CPU power for playback - not to mention faster encoding). Like Perrone said, use multi-pass VBR encodings - and I'd add cranking up some encoding settings to boot. With a reasonably potent quad core CPU, 20 minutes isn't a lot of video to encode. It slows the encode down a bit, but going to like 5 or 6 reference frames, and being liberal with consecutive B frames (like 8 or so), can give a bit of a bump up in image quality for H264 encodings (and still plays fine on a computer - you don't have some of the nutty restrictions Blu-Ray specs slap on you).

January 3rd, 2010, 05:31 PM	#17
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Well, I tried exporting WMV from AE using both 9 and 9 Advanced with horrible results. For both, I used Variable Restrained or something similar and set the bitrate to 9.5Mb/s and max to 10Mb/s. Both files were far smaller than they should have been. Any thoughts? I will probably install TMPGEnc Xpress and render a master copy from AE. So, any suggestions for the format of the master copy? And how would I make a DVD with additional video files? I only know how to use TMPGEnc Authoring Works for making DVDs (no Encore experience). Thanks again.

January 3rd, 2010, 05:59 PM	#18
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	I don't know Adobe's stuff at hardly at all. What's the video format (frame size, progressive or interlaced, framerate) of your final edited version of the video (for example:1920x1080p24)? How many minutes long is the final edited version? Do you have Cineform's codec installed on your computer? Do you have Virtual Dub installed on your computer? Do you have loads of available disk space to work with? (how much?) As to how you mix formats, that's pretty simple. Hopefully this explains it clearly. You create the DVD structure (with whatever tools), which has a video_ts folder and appropriate contents in it (VOB files and such). At the root of the folder containing the DVD "image" (of sorts, the actual video_ts folder and appropriate files in the video_ts folder, not an ISO disk image) you also add the .mp4 file and the .wmv file (which are the respective files containing the H264 and WMV encoded videos. So, the root of the actual DVD disk, when you go to burn it, should wind up containing a folder named video_ts (which contains the files for the dvd video) and a file named whatever.mp4 and a file named whatever.wmv (also at the root). Most DVD authoring programs will also put a folder named audio_ts at the root of the DVD too (it won't have anything in it though). Just leave it there (it's technically proper to have it even if it's empty).

January 3rd, 2010, 06:08 PM	#19
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	When the disk is burned, laid out as described above, and the disk inserted into a standard DVD player, the DVD player will look for the video_ts and audio_ts folders, look inside them to determine what it should do, and use those files inside those folders to play the video as a DVD video (since the audio_ts folder will be empty, the DVD player won't actually do anything with it). It will ignore the other files (the mp4 and wmv) at the root of the disk, but when somebody puts the disk in their computer, they can double click on those files to play those versions of the video. That's a "mixed format" disk. In short, you make a proper DVD, and then add whatever extra files you want to add, at the root (and the player ignores them).

January 3rd, 2010, 06:34 PM	#20
Steve Kalle Trustee Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 1,554	Thanks Robert, you explained it perfectly. The master copy will be 1080 29.97p. No cineform and no Virtual Dub. 20 minutes long and several TB's of space available. I am rendering it as a QT file at the moment and it will be at least 15GB, but I don't remember what settings I used. I think I used the same settings as I use for proxies which is PNG.

January 3rd, 2010, 06:47 PM	#21
Robert M Wright Inner Circle Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Minnesota (USA) Posts: 2,171	I'm assuming the original footage was shot at 1080p. I asked about VirtualDub, because using VDub is the easiest way to downsize the video well (for converting to 720p prior to compressing the HD versions, and to (720)x480p for DVD. No NLE I'm aware of resizes images better, or even very well at all (most suck at it). I'd suggest downloading VDub. It's not difficult to use to do the resize. If you really want to do it up right, you could do a real light visually lossless denoising in VDub to improve compression performance a little bit too. That's not real tough either. I asked about Cineform, because their codec would be pretty ideal for exporting the final version from Adobe at 1080p (then downsizing it with VDub > then encoding). Since you've got plenty of HDD space though, you could just export uncompressed though. I'd suggest exporting the 1080p "master" from Adobe as uncompressed using YUY2 encoding (4:2:2 color space) if you know how to do that from Adobe.