Firewire vs Realtime Editing Cards at DVinfo.net

Brad Simmons · April 3rd, 2003, 12:27 PM

Hi guys, I have a regular firewire card and have exported edited footage back to my DV cam but noticed the quality was nowhere near a good as the original footage. I was curious to know if the quality was any better using a real time editing card. I'm using Adobe Premiere 6.0 on a PIII 866 with ATI Radeon card.

Any help would be much appreciated.

Robert Knecht Schmidt · April 3rd, 2003, 05:17 PM

I think there's too little information to diagnose your actual problem. Improved transfer fidelity isn't a benefit of real time cards--firewire transfers should be lossless, regardless of hardware.

Likely, there's some bad recompression going on, and you should take a look at the output codec you're using. It would be helpful to post some representative images or full-res video clips to the web for DVInfo.net members to examine--we'd figure out your problem in no time flat for sure!

Rick Spilman · April 3rd, 2003, 05:50 PM

How are viewing the captured footage and what software are you using? Some "bundled" software uses lower resolutions for editing.

The firewire card should give you exactly the same resolution as any real time card.

Dylan Couper · April 3rd, 2003, 11:28 PM

Almost all firewire cards use the same chips for firewire capture, whether they are a $30 card, or a $1200 real time card.

FWIW, I use a generic firewire card that cost $25 with perfect results. You are probably looking at a software problem.

Brad Simmons · April 4th, 2003, 03:30 AM

ok thanks for the responses guys. The footage seems to be fine now for some reason. But it's good to know that there is no quality difference between a regular card and an RT card.

thanks again.

Harry Settle · April 4th, 2003, 10:47 AM

Old problem, need to keep an eye on the basics. More memory, fast computer, defrag, faster bigger hard drive etc. . . If you can keep your video on a separtate hard drive from your operating system.

Garret Ambrosio · April 9th, 2003, 07:55 PM

Yes there are only few chips that is "firewire" compliant, NEC and TI are the ones that come to mind. But the exception of the real time card is that it has a separate co-processor for crunching the numbers in order to speed up real time editing and rendering, basically when you render using your computer without the aid of a real time card your CPU gets taxed heavily because it is trying to run the other process that it requires to operate, OS, NLE program requirements, etc. as well as the DV capture. But the real time card will take over much of the duties and lessen the load of the CPU, thus giving you the boost in performance. But capturing from DV should not be affected, usually this will bog down if the bus that the firewire card is trying to utilize is busy orf no busses are available, you will get a drop. The best thing to do is while capturing you have nothing else running, just let it capture. I tried capturing, using the net and cleaning up my video drive and the captured data had frame drops and stuff.

Mike Rehmus · April 10th, 2003, 05:33 PM

While quality is not affected by the hardware in video transfers, the software can have a big difference in quality.

Some software converts the video color space to RGB which subtly degrades the image. It also has to covert it back after the edit.

Some software insists on rendering everything on the timeline. That will degrade the image quality.

Every time you place an effect on a clip, create a transition, or add a title, you degrade the image because it has to be decompressed and recompressed during the process.

April 3rd, 2003, 12:27 PM	#1
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	Firewire vs Realtime Editing Cards Hi guys, I have a regular firewire card and have exported edited footage back to my DV cam but noticed the quality was nowhere near a good as the original footage. I was curious to know if the quality was any better using a real time editing card. I'm using Adobe Premiere 6.0 on a PIII 866 with ATI Radeon card. Any help would be much appreciated.

April 3rd, 2003, 05:17 PM	#2
Robert Knecht Schmidt Wrangler Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Cleveland, Ohio Posts: 1,933	I think there's too little information to diagnose your actual problem. Improved transfer fidelity isn't a benefit of real time cards--firewire transfers should be lossless, regardless of hardware. Likely, there's some bad recompression going on, and you should take a look at the output codec you're using. It would be helpful to post some representative images or full-res video clips to the web for DVInfo.net members to examine--we'd figure out your problem in no time flat for sure! __________________ All the best, Robert K S Search DVinfo.net for quick answers \| The best in the business: DVinfo.net sponsors

April 3rd, 2003, 11:28 PM	#4
Dylan Couper Wrangler Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Posts: 8,314	Almost all firewire cards use the same chips for firewire capture, whether they are a $30 card, or a $1200 real time card. FWIW, I use a generic firewire card that cost $25 with perfect results. You are probably looking at a software problem. __________________ Need to rent camera gear in Vancouver BC? Check me out at camerarentalsvancouver.com

April 4th, 2003, 10:47 AM	#6
Harry Settle Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Bemidji, MN Posts: 276	Old problem, need to keep an eye on the basics. More memory, fast computer, defrag, faster bigger hard drive etc. . . If you can keep your video on a separtate hard drive from your operating system. __________________ "DOH"!!!

April 9th, 2003, 07:55 PM	#7
Garret Ambrosio Major Player Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Vallejo, CA Posts: 263	Yes there are only few chips that is "firewire" compliant, NEC and TI are the ones that come to mind. But the exception of the real time card is that it has a separate co-processor for crunching the numbers in order to speed up real time editing and rendering, basically when you render using your computer without the aid of a real time card your CPU gets taxed heavily because it is trying to run the other process that it requires to operate, OS, NLE program requirements, etc. as well as the DV capture. But the real time card will take over much of the duties and lessen the load of the CPU, thus giving you the boost in performance. But capturing from DV should not be affected, usually this will bog down if the bus that the firewire card is trying to utilize is busy orf no busses are available, you will get a drop. The best thing to do is while capturing you have nothing else running, just let it capture. I tried capturing, using the net and cleaning up my video drive and the captured data had frame drops and stuff. __________________ "USA Today has come out with a new survey - apparently, three out of every four people make up 75% of the population." -David Letterman

April 3rd, 2003, 05:50 PM	#3
Rick Spilman Major Player Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Jersey City, NJ Posts: 366	How are viewing the captured footage and what software are you using? Some "bundled" software uses lower resolutions for editing. The firewire card should give you exactly the same resolution as any real time card.

April 4th, 2003, 03:30 AM	#5
Brad Simmons Major Player Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Washington DC Posts: 304	ok thanks for the responses guys. The footage seems to be fine now for some reason. But it's good to know that there is no quality difference between a regular card and an RT card. thanks again.

April 10th, 2003, 05:33 PM	#8
Mike Rehmus Wrangler Join Date: May 2002 Location: Vallejo, California Posts: 4,049	While quality is not affected by the hardware in video transfers, the software can have a big difference in quality. Some software converts the video color space to RGB which subtly degrades the image. It also has to covert it back after the edit. Some software insists on rendering everything on the timeline. That will degrade the image quality. Every time you place an effect on a clip, create a transition, or add a title, you degrade the image because it has to be decompressed and recompressed during the process. __________________ Mike Rehmus Hey, I can see the carrot at the end of the tunnel!