New camera advice

[Chris Harding]

Hi Jody

I had two Panasonic AC-130's and I ditched them after only 3 months..terrible AF and the audio XLR's gave much poorer results than expected. I also never liked the fact that in auto the iris had such a limited range ..it calls for a manual ND change even if a cloud goes over and switching the ND causes a flash on the footage. Even in full manual the ND changes are not seamless at all. If you shoot full manual however they are good value and half the price of the Canon.

I'm switching to the new Sony NEX EA-50 it ticks all my boxes and is within my budget too!!

Chris

[Jody Arnott]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Jody

I had two Panasonic AC-130's and I ditched them after only 3 months..terrible AF and the audio XLR's gave much poorer results than expected. I also never liked the fact that in auto the iris had such a limited range ..it calls for a manual ND change even if a cloud goes over and switching the ND causes a flash on the footage. Even in full manual the ND changes are not seamless at all. If you shoot full manual however they are good value and half the price of the Canon.

I'm switching to the new Sony NEX EA-50 it ticks all my boxes and is within my budget too!!

Chris

Thanks for the info. Might look a bit more into the XF300/HM600 then..

The EA50 does look great, I'm just worried about the shallow DoF making difficult to quickly obtain focus when I'm running around shooting various events. It does look like the perfect wedding/short film camera though.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Jody

I guess I'll find out when mine arrives any day now but bear in mind that outdoors or in good light and using the stock zoom which only opens to F3.5 you still have a fair amount of DOF to play with....normal bright light shots would be around the F6.8 mark and that gives you plenty of area in focus...even in low light at F4 the example video in the EA-50 forum the background was still in focus. One would start getting very shallow DOF once you pop on a very fast lens that's wide open ... I really don't think it will be an issue.

My main reason for the EA-50 was the form factor though! I was brought up on shoulder mount cameras and do a lot of handheld so forms like the new JVC or Panny mean that I have to try and hold the camera out in front of me or build a rig for it....as the 50 pad actually slides in you get the best of both worlds.

The Canon is supposed to be very good but I don't like the form factor again or the inflated price compared to the HM650 ...Sadly the JVC has no 1080 50p .... I do like the idea of being able to change to a fast lens when I have a low light issue too!!

Hope you find exactly what you want....a good idea on an unfamiliar cam is to also download the manual..it tells a lot ...I nearly grabbed a Panasonic AC-90 until I found out it has very poor XLR control and nobody mentioned it until I found out details in the manual.

Chris

[Mike Beckett]

Chris,

I'm wondering how you're going to find no ND at all for filming? The built-in NDs of the Panasonic HMCs certainly has its place in your sort of work. I never really fell in love with variable NDs either, I always overshot the "min" setting and crazy things would happen to the picture. My fault I'm sure, but it never felt right.

Also, the variable NDs I've tried didn't have a "0" setting, so if it got dark you had to struggle to unscrew the filter...

I realise that everyone is different, but for run & gun I view manual NDs as essential, I was forever screwing manual ones on or off on my Sony NX70 to try to compensate for changing light without going to crazy shutter speeds.

My scenario, set up on a hillside waiting for Santa's steam train to appear:
- Set up camera
- Sun comes out
- Take off lens hood
- Unscrew UV filter
- Screw on ND2 filter
- Replace lens hood
- Sun goes behind clouds
- Reduce shutter speed
- Still too dark
- Try to guess if sun will stay behind cloud for long or will come back soon
- Remove lens hood
...etc.

Whereas manual NDs - clunk, and you're set. Clearly you have to compromise if the lighting conditions change during the shoot. But you'll hopefully have a much closer overall good exposure if you can quickly adjust settings.

e.g., for Jody:

- Shot is nicely exposed for (say) the soccer pitch or ice rink
- Something really interesting happens in the crowd, or elsewhere
- Flick off NDs and re-expose and zoom quickly with 23x zoom

Fiddling with screw-on or fader NDs and having to use a DSLR-style zoom lens (which will probably not be long enough) could miss the moment.

OK, it's not an everyday occurrence maybe, but it might happen.

Changing lenses is not desirable during action (unless you have multiple cameras), so a good integrated lens like the AC130/160, Canon XF300 or JVC HM600 may not be perfect for 100% of circumstances, but it should be perfect for most and adequate for others.


My next camera has manual NDs, three rings on the lens for focus, zoom, iris (including a non-servo zoom) and ND up to 1/64, making outdoor shooting a lot less frustrating. I can sacrifice not having 1080 50p because none of the destinations for my video actually are 50p!

[Chris Harding]

Hi Mike

I'll let you know next week!! My Pannys have a built in variable ND that works with the iris as 1/4" chips lose resolution after about F4.... Shooting outdoor weddings with the Pannys in manual the auto setting pushes the shutter to 1/2000th and the iris/ND combo to between F8 and F11 (it's not really F11 but closer to F4 +1/64th ND) I have never had an issue with shutter speed at outdoor weddings at all but using a variable ND might be an option if it's needed. So far results from other users say there is no issue with no ND's but without testing it myself I won't know if I need one or not.

I'll get my wife to overshoot an outdoor wedding next Saturday (I'll use both Pannys and she can man the EA-50) and I'll post the results on the Sony forum. You, of course could be right or you might be wrong...we shall see after my 12th January wedding when I can comment accurately on what occurred.

Surely Sony wouldn't ship out a camera that cannot shoot in bright light?? Maybe it has it's own variable auto ND inside ...I don't think anyone knows and I'm purely speculating until I actually use it on a bright sunny day. I haven't yet seen any posts in the Sony Forum about ND's as yet so I'll wait and see after a practical shoot....playing with cameras in the back yard tells us very little sadly!

Chris

[Mike Beckett]

Originally Posted by Chris Harding

Hi Mike
Surely Sony wouldn't ship out a camera that cannot shoot in bright light?? Maybe it has it's own variable auto ND inside ...I don't think anyone knows and I'm purely speculating until I actually use it on a bright sunny day. I haven't yet seen any posts in the Sony Forum about ND's as yet so I'll wait and see after a practical shoot....playing with cameras in the back yard tells us very little sadly!

Chris

Time will tell, Chris - good luck!

Sony did this with the NX70. Despite speculation on this forum, there simply was no ND in it. No auto ND, nothing. Nada. Nowt. Sony confirmed this, and advised using screw-on NDs. Not in the specs, not according to Sony, and not visible, and not apparent in the picture. (OK, I'll stop now.)

If it got bright, the iris would go right to f9 without any sign of ND kicking in, and be overblown. Putting it in auto would keep the iris in the middle range (approx f4) and up the shutter speed to keep exposure good. This would of course result in shutter speeds of 1/1000 and could look weird at times.

We shall see. Sony don't tend to release total junk, so we can have hope!

[Noa Put]

Surely Sony wouldn't ship out a camera that cannot shoot in bright light?? Maybe it has it's own variable auto ND inside

If you are referring to the nex ea50, no it has no build in ND's, it's comparable with a dslr and if you have experience shooting with one you know what you are getting into :)

I have shot several weddings now with my sony cx730 that don't have a build in nd either and they use the shutter to compensate when shooting outside, I did shoot a outdoor ceremony a while ago when it was clouded and the sun kept appearing, so it was either glaring sun or shade all the time and I just let the Sony do it's thing. In the end result on dvd and blu-ray the client doesn't notice the side effects of those high shutterspeeds when the sun appears, to a untrained eye it all looks beautiful. So eventhough I prefer shooting with ND's it's perfectly possible to shoot without and still deliver a video your client will like.

[Chris Harding]

Hi Guys

Fair enough comments. On my Panny's I put them into manual purely so I can lock AF once the bride is in position but I leave the iris in auto unless there is a reason not to..On the Panny's in manual the shutter locks at 1/50th and of course you can run out of iris and yes the image blows out. I let autoiris decide the shutter and aperture and then tweak exposure as needed so 99% of my outdoor ceremonies are shot at 1/2000th shutter and iris to suit. I have never seen any weird results as fast action isn't the order of the day at all and brides have always been pleased with the results. I am figuring that the Sony will be much the same so a high shutter speed shouldn't cause any problems again at an almost static wedding ceremony. The only time movement starts to happen is when they start dancing and then you are indoors, at night and the shutter is back to 1/50th.

However I can see where there would be a problem with high speed sports and then you have no option but to use an ND filter.

Time will tell and results to help/deter prospective owners will be forthcoming

Chris

[Jody Arnott]

Well today is the day I make my purchase, as I now have the money ready.

And I still haven't decided! =/

I'm tossing up between the JV HM600 and Sony PMW-200. Considering the $2-3k price difference, what would you guys choose? Keeping in mind I mainly shoot corporate promos, sports events and the occasional wedding/short film.

The 1/2 inch sensors on the Sony are really drawing me to that.. but it's a lot more expensive.

[Sareesh Sudhakaran]

The PMW 200 is in a different league, with genlock and is more geared towards broadcast. If your work is never going to be broadcast, you don't need it.

You could buy the JVC and a DSLR (for those shallow DOF shots) for the price of a PMW 200.

[Jody Arnott]

Originally Posted by Sareesh Sudhakaran

The PMW 200 is in a different league, with genlock and is more geared towards broadcast. If your work is never going to be broadcast, you don't need it.

You could buy the JVC and a DSLR (for those shallow DOF shots) for the price of a PMW 200.

Yeah I'm thinking the JVC HM600 and a Sony VG30 would be a good way to go.

Just a bit worried about being an "early adopter" with the JVC... there isn't a great deal of info on the internet about it yet. Would love to hear from anyone that has used one.